ZIMBABWEANS share their thoughts on Why foreigners Face Resentment In SOUTH AFRICA

[00:00:00]For instance, in South Africa, I remember I was talking to some Uber drivers in South Africa who are from Zimbabwe.

[00:00:05]>> Yeah.

[00:00:05]>> They were asking me the same question, "What do you think is going to happen?

[00:00:08]Do you think we are not wanted here? Or [music] uh but we work very hard."

[00:00:12]>> Yeah.

[00:00:12]>> So, I was telling them, "Yes, you guys you work very hard.

[00:00:14]>> Mhm.

[00:00:15]>> But you also must remember that uh you are working very hard [music] in another person's country."

[00:00:20]>> Yeah.

[00:00:20]>> Now, in South South Africa, for example, >> [music] >> when foreigners come to South Africa, they are willing [music] to work.

[00:00:28]>> Mhm.

[00:00:28]>> They're willing to do any job >> Mhm.

[00:00:30]>> for any money amount of money.

[00:00:31]>> Yeah.

[00:00:32]>> [music] >> But for us as South Africans, uh we have some standards that we set. That for instance, if the employer does not pay us that much, we can demonstrate, we can do a strike.

[00:00:42]>> Mhm.

[00:00:42]>> But we cannot do it a strike when there are foreigners who are willing to get anything. Because otherwise, if we strike, the foreigners will just say, "Okay, we are willing to work."

[00:00:51]>> to >> So, they can get paid anything >> Okay.

[00:00:53]>> whilst we are striking.

[00:00:54]>> Okay.

[00:00:55]>> So, that created that resentment. Always remember that it's not a privilege to be in another person's country.

[00:01:00]>> Yeah.

[00:01:00]>> They welcome you, and you [music] have to be grateful to them and thankful for them as well for you know for for their hospitality. For example, if we go to another place and wanting to change that place to be like your place that you come from. Because otherwise, you wouldn't have come from your place, right?

[00:01:15]>> [music] >> So, just respect their culture, respect the environment, respect the people, respect their society, and you will have no problem with that. And they will also have no problem with you.

[00:01:27]>> Hello guys. [music] Just a quick note.

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[00:01:49]>> Recently, you were in South Africa.

[00:01:52]And after South Africa, you went to Zimbabwe and you came back. And then also you mentioned that earlier on you tried to make a platform for foreigners.

[00:02:00]So, just looking at all this traveling and focusing on foreigners, what do you think is like the future of immigration? Cuz, you know, immigration is what in South Africa right now. But it's it's also hot in Europe right now.

[00:02:13]It's a hot topic. What do you think about?

[00:02:15]>> Yeah, so immigration is a hot topic. You know, I've been Actually, before I went to South Africa, I went to Serbia, right? I had a uh a conference that that was happening in uh in Belgrade. So, I also had a chance to meet with other foreigners from Africa, especially from Kenya.

[00:02:32]Uh and then and then of course I went to South Africa, where it's like the hotspot right now. You know, a lot of things are happening.

[00:02:39]Um and then obviously here in Europe.

[00:02:41]So, looking at it and and obviously there is an incident that happened in Poland also recently about um I think the Africa Day celebrations and stuff like that. So, when you look at it, it's it's atmosphere. It's the That's the mood at the moment. Everywhere you can go, there's no place I I would say that you can expect not to see that.

[00:03:02]But but what you have to do is to read the environment. In such In such cases, what do you do as an immigrant? I would say just try not to be that visible. Because often those problems comes because when the local people see you as being more visible or more vocal, they will start to think that you are you know, challenging them or you are taking their jobs, things like you are taking our jobs, you know, you you are causing problems.

[00:03:29]Because if you look at it, in most cases, for example, if you as an immigrant, let's say you do something in the in the in the center of of Warsaw.

[00:03:40]You are more visible than when it's done by a local or by someone from Ukraine, obviously.

[00:03:46]So, that alone if it's shared on social media, because social media now makes things move faster. If it's shared on social media, it's going to create a big resentment with the locals to say, "Ah, okay. You see what they are doing here?"

[00:03:59]And then tomorrow another video of another person. Now, no nobody sits down to look at the content. Okay, let me try to find out what happened before I can judge. They will just rush to judge that this is what they are doing.

[00:04:10]>> This is what they are doing.

[00:04:11]>> So, I see the mood right now is I think we are going to be in this space for quite some time, unfortunately, due to the, you know, the geopolitics of the world at the moment.

[00:04:22]Um when I looked, for instance, in South Africa, I remember I was telling talking to some Uber drivers in South Africa who are from Zimbabwe. They were asking me the same question, "What do you think is going to happen?

[00:04:33]Do you think we are not wanted here? Or but we work very hard." So, I was telling them, "Yes, you guys you work very hard, but you also must remember that you are working very hard in another person's country." Now, in South South Africa, for example, they are, uh, what do you call them?

[00:04:50]Trade unions or workers' unions. There was the one example that was given when I attended former President Thabo Mbeki's seminar in in Centurion City in Cape Town.

[00:05:00]Someone spoke about the notion that, you know, when foreigners come to South Africa, they are willing to work. They are willing to do any job for any money amount of money.

[00:05:13]>> Yeah.

[00:05:13]>> But for us as South Africans, uh, we have some standards that we set that, for instance, if the employer doesn't pay us that much, we can demonstrate, we can do a strike.

[00:05:24]But we cannot do it a strike when there are foreigners who are willing to get anything. Because otherwise, if we strike, the foreigners will just say, "Okay, we are willing to work." So, they can get paid anything whilst we are striking.

[00:05:35]>> Okay.

[00:05:36]>> So, that created that resentment. Yeah.

[00:05:39]That created that resentment that you are seeing. So, it's it's sort of like a wave that's going all around the world that, you know, people are feeling that um you know, people are coming into the country as they would think that they are taking their jobs. And so, when you are not visible, those issues that that don't arise because they don't see you on the bad side of things, you know.

[00:06:01]I'm not saying that it will totally go away, but it will reduce the temperature. Yeah. If you If you derive it from the the recent incident in Lublin, you will see what exactly I'm talking about.

[00:06:12]>> Exactly.

[00:06:12]>> It did not been uh of that or or that that there were many people in that small space, >> Yeah.

[00:06:19]>> nobody would say that there are many Nigerians in Lublin.

[00:06:21]>> Mhm.

[00:06:21]>> But the fact that there were many people in that same space, >> Yeah.

[00:06:24]>> you know, many people from Africa do create that that picture. So, I think it's best to always not to want to draw attention to yourself. Try not to be that visible, you know. And just know your place, that you know, I'm not in my country, you know. And also always being grateful that I'm grateful to this country because it has given you something that >> Yeah.

[00:06:44]>> you know, always remember that it's not a privilege to be in another person's country. They welcome you, and we have to be grateful to them and thankful for them as well for you, you know, for for their hospitality.

[00:06:55]>> Wow. Wow. Wow.

[00:06:56]>> Yeah.

[00:06:57]>> I We are learning. We are learning a lot. And what you said is is very important that um try not to be visible, >> Mhm.

[00:07:06]>> especially for the bad things. At least if you are doing something good that helps the community or that helps the country, then I don't think there will be any resentment. But if we are most visible for the bad things, then there can be resentment. And as you said, you had like Uber drivers who were asking you and they were telling you they work very hard. And sometimes it's unfortunate because there are those who do the bad things, and because of those people who do the bad things, everyone is now painted with the same brush. And everyone is now They say like every foreigner is doing this.

[00:07:38]>> Yes.

[00:07:39]>> Unfortunately, you know, because when you know, there's a tendency that we tend to It's just like like for for example when you're describing lions, you say lions are ruthless.

[00:07:50]>> Yes.

[00:07:50]>> But but we don't pinpoint that there are some lions that are not ruthless.

[00:07:54]You just group them. So that's that's what happens usually. Unfortunately, we tend to fall in that bracket that when people are describing certain bad acts that are, you know, done by other people, they classify the whole group.

[00:08:07]>> Yeah.

[00:08:07]>> And so that's that's the problem or the challenge that we have.

[00:08:11]>> Um >> But you know, I always come back to that point. If if you're doing something good, even if how many you are, look at for example look at football teams. We have the World Cup right now that's happening. If you look at the French team >> Mhm.

[00:08:25]>> or you know, most teams even here in Poland if we had a team that had many of our brothers from Zimbabwe, >> Mhm.

[00:08:33]>> nobody would complain because they are doing a good act, right? Which is benefiting the country.

[00:08:38]>> Mhm.

[00:08:38]>> But if you start to do something that tarnishes the country, not only are you putting pressure on people from your country, also from politicians from that country because now they have to defend you. You understand? They have to come out and defend your actions.

[00:08:53]>> Mhm.

[00:08:53]>> You know, so so that's why I always say try to to do it the to be the best at your best. Just like when you visit your relative, you don't misbehave when you visit your relative because they can chuck you out, right?

[00:09:04]>> Mhm.

[00:09:04]>> So you always try try to be on your best and try not to be visible. Because our challenge sometimes when you get to these places is to want to be visible that to show you that you know, we come from this place, this is what we do, you know. And I've always argued that there is no a benefit in you, for example, if we go to another place in wanting to change that place to be like your place that you come from. Because otherwise we wouldn't have come from your place, right?

[00:09:30]>> So just respect their culture, respect the environment, respect the people, you their society, and you have no problem with that. And they will also have no problem with you.

[00:09:39]>> Yeah, that is that is very true. I hope I hope people are learning and people [clears throat] are cuz sometimes we also may rush into thinking that these people don't like us.

[00:09:49]Yet, we don't we don't look in the mirror and actually try to review what what we are doing in other people's countries and and try to see ourselves in the way that they see ourselves, you know, they they see us. Like if we if we are the foreigners and they are the citizens as you said, maybe we are demonstrating that we are being paid um minimum wage or even less, right? And then there comes someone who's saying, "I know, just give me anything."

[00:10:17]Then it means what I'm demonstrating for would not be So, in the end, it may seem as if maybe all these other countries hate us, but also we also need to examine ourselves.

[00:10:29]>> Exactly. And it creates that resentment now. We look at our brothers, for example, in South um and then creates that resentment from the locals because they would say, "It's okay. So, you guys you think you are the best, you know, you think you are the best, uh that you you know, you want to sabotage what we are doing." And sometimes it did not been because of that, there wouldn't be a problem. People would live in harmony.

[00:10:53]But what the moment you start to want to prove that you are the best among others, especially if as you come as a foreigner, you are already creating resentment from the locals, you know. So, when they are demonstrating that they want higher wages and then you you go behind their backs to their managers and say, "No, I can work for that wage, that wage they are demonstrating against." You know, there's no way someone's going to like you for that, you know. And so, they would think that you are And in fact, it's not at that also level only because I remember when I was also looking at one, I was watching one of the speeches that was made by one one of the ANC leaders South Africa. He also spoke about the same thing that even during the liberation those things were happening that when we are demonstrating under the labor unions some foreigners would then come behind their backs and they say we can work. So you you know you can create that resentment. So but if you if you live in harmony with the people the locals, you know, you agree you are agreeable to each other, you know, you are agreeable to each other you are indifferent.

[00:11:58]>> Yeah.

[00:11:59]>> I don't see any reason why somebody would just wake up and say I don't like you. Or we don't want you here. Right?

[00:12:05]They only do that when they feel that you are pressuring them or something, you know, or they are no no longer being considered. You see in that case in South Africa they their number one motive is that their government is always favoring foreigners. That's what the resentment ends up being because people end up thinking that you are being favored more than them. Yeah, so but if you if you just You know, one of the favorite quotes that I like is from Robert Green. You know, you 48 Laws of Power.

[00:12:33]>> Yes.

[00:12:33]>> He always say never outshine your master.

[00:12:35]Never. And and I I got I read that quote as well when I went to Zimbabwe but one of the vice vice chancellors in one of the universities in Zimbabwe that I was interviewing. He told me a story about that quote as well that never outshine your master. He said when he was appointed a vice chancellor he had to go for a trip somewhere in India. And so he appointed someone to to be, you know, to as his replacement for those two weeks.

[00:13:01]>> Yeah.

[00:13:02]>> And he said when I go to India I started receiving messages from some of the subordinates that the person you appointed is changing things a lot because you once you by the time you get come back here you would have made so much changes so that the management would would think he think he's better than you.

[00:13:16]>> Oh.

[00:13:17]>> And he told me that so for him to tell me that it means something that he was not happy with.

[00:13:22]>> He was not happy with.

[00:13:23]>> And he said the quote in whatever you do never try to outshine the master. Yeah.

[00:13:27]>> So that's you just use the same approach. Never try to outshine the locals. You know, remain indifferent.

[00:13:33]Don't try to be, you know, more visible than them.

[00:13:37]Because you will create problems for them. If you create problem now, the problem won't end.

[00:13:42]It won't won't only be for those people.

[00:13:44]It affects every foreigner, because the regular rules, the laws, or the regulations that will be passed will affect everyone.

[00:13:51]>> Okay. Okay. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So, as we conclude, is there any question that you think I I might have missed or anything that you think I should have asked you, but I didn't? But if there is nothing, maybe you can have maybe something to tell the the audience as we finish.

[00:14:11]>> Yeah, so just to conclude, I think I would for me I would I usually I'm very grateful and I always want to talk about it and sum the you know, the experience that I had, you know, coming here. Obviously, it was like a roller coaster. You know, there are a lot of ups and downs. You know, you it's like I was going to the land of unknown. And how I got here actually, it was one through one of my friend's friend.

[00:14:39]>> Mhm.

[00:14:39]>> You know, who said who reached out to me on Instagram and said, you know, um I think you probably had him as a guest here. And he said, you know, I'm in Poland. Um This is how things are. I'm like, yeah, in Poland. At that time I was working in Zimbabwe, one in Zimbabwe. You know, by Samora Machel there. I was like, yes, but you're in Poland. What are you doing there? And she told me everything.

[00:15:04]And so, I was working in a bank.

[00:15:07]And you know, I started thinking it took me probably [clears throat] a week or less to decide whether I want to quit the bank. Although I didn't tell the, you know, I didn't tell anyone at that particular time in the bank that I want to quit, because I wasn't sure how things were going to go. And so, from that moment up to now, if I think of my you know my experience and my journey, it's I would say it's worthwhile. You know, it's it's worthwhile because I have quite I've been able to learn a lot of things that I would probably wouldn't have learned.

[00:15:36]But also, the most important thing is also to consider what's next, you know, because I obviously try to avoid being in that trip where I usually term it the diaspora trip where you get to a point where you get a diminishing marginal returns, which means that you get to a point where you are no longer getting something new, you know.

[00:15:57]You are now stuck.

[00:15:59]So, it's a point where you also obviously have to think of the way forward.

[00:16:04]Otherwise, you end also in the in the diaspora trip whereby you can no longer go back home because you feel that you have not done anything, you know. So, everyone has that goes through that same process that you start by doing something, be it school, be it work. You say, "Okay, today I've graduated. I now have a degree. Today I've graduated and I have a masters. I have a PhD. I have whatever."

[00:16:25]But you get to a point where you will remain constant. Now, there's no growth.

[00:16:29]So, that's the point where you now you have to think you have to be very careful. Otherwise, you fall in that trip that you just be staying for the purpose of staying and there's no longer growth. So, I say you know, that's that's one thing that keeps me awake, you know, thinking, asking myself, "Have I gotten to that point yet? Okay, I still need to I still want to have one to two one to three to do. So, I'm not there yet." But I I keep check of that. Yeah, it's very important to be in check of that to make sure that you are no longer just surviving for the purpose of surviving. Yes. So, you get to that point. I see some people how they usually do it that is when they get to that point, they then decide to move to other country another country. Some they decide to go back home. Some they decide to do something else different.

[00:17:14]Yeah, but it's all that that's how we deal with it differently.

[00:17:19]So, it's very important to always, you know, take stock of where you are at that particular time.

[00:17:26]>> Well, I'm not going to add anything [laughter] on top of that.

[00:17:29]So, ladies and gentlemen, this has been Simba. I hope you've learned as much as I have learned from him. This was like a very short conversation, but a lot of things have been said and a lot of things that we can learn from have been said. So, if you've stayed around until this point, please don't forget to like, don't forget to share, and to subscribe. But, until next time, it is goodbye for now.