Wolt provides a compelling psychological framework that shifts the focus from moral failure to a deeper crisis of human connection. It is a vital exploration of how digital escapism erodes our capacity for real-world intimacy and emotional autonomy.
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P*rn Recovery Coach Steven Wolt | This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
Added:Today's guest is a certified coach and a founder of Valor Recovery. Uh it's a recovery program that focuses on porn addiction, um pornography addiction, uh intimacy disorders, commitment uh disorders, um a whole gamut of stuff in there. There's a lot of things when it comes to uh emotional um connection. Uh he and I have known each other for years. He's a dear friend of mine. Uh he's been a mentor. He's been a guide.
Um, man, at times he's been a hero. I'll say that. Uh, this episode isn't really for children. If you have children, maybe in the back seat or something, you know, it might I mean, it might it's not graphic, but it's just I don't know.
Just, you know, I hope this episode reaches who it reaches. I would like to say that I had a great chat today uh with my guest and friend, Mr. Steve Walt song I've been singing.
>> Thanks, bro. Thanks for coming. I love you.
>> Yeah, I love you, too, bro. Been a long time on you.
>> I know. It has been a long time, man.
Um, for some of you guys who don't know, today's uh guest is my friend Steve uh Walt, who is who started a program called Valor Recovery, and it's a recovery uh program for men who have suffered with pornography addiction. Is that pretty much the safe way to say it, Steve?
>> That's a good way to say it.
>> Okay, cool. And thank you so much, dude.
I love the work that you do. Thank you for like, you know, uh you've been a guiding light in my life and just a partner in crime and, you know, in positive crime. Uh and uh and yeah, I just want to like we start we met in recovery rooms, right?
>> Yeah. A long time ago.
>> Yeah. We met above the bank over there.
We're going to recovery rooms in the Palisades.
>> Yeah.
>> I didn't suffer from porn addiction, but I did I have dealt with that like parts of that and I have like uh you know had like ineimacy disorder, like commitment issues, that sort of thing, you know. Um which those meetings cover all of that.
>> Your recovery started with drugs and alcohols. It did. I mean, I was one of those kind of men that kind of struggled with a lot of stuff, but you know, as you look back, I definitely think pornography was the culprit.
>> Really?
>> Yeah, I do. You know, I think pornography was this kind of gateway drug that led me to a lot of dark places.
>> Yeah. I'd love to hear your experience, strength, and hope today. Just take us kind of on your uh your journey. This is what people do in meetings a lot.
they'll share their experience, strength and hope um and your um journey with like intimacy, sex addiction, porn, pornography addiction, etc. Is that okay?
>> Yeah, it's great. And so, you know, I think it it started for me in the late 90s. You know, I was living in New York City, >> working in financial services from all outward appearances, like doing great in life. You know, I remember moving kind of my first nice apartment and uh 32nd floor of a building. I'd worked so hard for this, right? Like my goodness, I walk up. No, >> no, it wasn't a walk up. 32 floors is a long way to walk. Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. But what I do remember within a few weeks is getting the internet in my apartment >> for the first time.
>> Pretty cool, right? People could do research. I could do a lot of things with the internet. Like not this guy. I mean I mean I use the internet for porn. And so really for the first time in my life I had like unlimited access to pornography.
And I'll tell you what, when I watched porn, it lit me up like a Christmas tree. When I watched porn, that fog of depression that kind of hovered over me much of my life lifted.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. 100%.
>> I can kind of relate a little bit what you're talking about. Like there's something else with it that feels very addictive.
>> You know, there's a euphoria to it.
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> I mean, it works just like worked just like a drug for me, right? That anxiety I felt that that kind of loneliness that was so profound vanished when I watched porn. Oh yeah.
>> So you know I watched porn to really numb difficult emotions >> and it worked.
>> It worked really really well.
>> And were you using it like were I mean were you just kind of like using it once a day or was like I mean was there an actual like heavy use of it or you were it was just like this outlet that was that you knew that was there? You know, it started off as an outlet, but then things started to change. You know, this is long before we had cell phones that had pornography. So, this is on a laptop in my home. And what I noticed was this progression. I started watching porn for longer lengths of time with more frequency. I kind of needed porn. You know, there were nights I'd be watching porn throughout most of the evening.
>> What? 100%. I'd go for hours.
>> Wow.
>> And you know, I'd wake up or like come to in the morning like disgusted with myself.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Disgusted. I'm never doing this again. I would actually have multiple times I would get the laptop and I would throw it down the garbage shoot on the 32nd floor in absolute disgust. But, you know, few days later I'd be back in the computer store >> telling this poor guy, "Yeah, I have a growing business and we need more technology." Little thing I know, I just throw my computer away cuz I couldn't stop watching porn on it.
>> Like, dude, too bad they don't have an Olympic event for guys who are sick of watching porn on their laptops. You That would be so much further than discus, I think. You know, >> 100%.
>> But dude, that's crazy. Imagine like some guy is just like some little R2-D2 human and there's like what? Another one.
>> Another one. Steve's got a very successful business. He's hiring. He needs a lot. He needs computers.
>> Oh, dude. That's so crazy, dude. I do remember like when I was a kid. Is it okay if I interject a little bit? Yeah, please.
>> Yeah. Um, and just to share, man, like Yeah. I remember like uh when I was a kid, they had one some fella had uh pornos at his house. He had magazines >> and we'd had somebody had like chiseled some tits into the wood into into a tree near our home and stuff like that. And we had that when I was young and people would show up to that like it was some like kind of like a you know, some mahogany chest mecca or something. You know, people would make the pilgrimage to see that in in the woods, you know.
It's hot. Yeah. Yeah. It's hot.
>> But at one point, I had a I I found a I had a buddy and his dad had some porno magazines.
>> And dude, I remember once I'd seen those, I would bike across town on the weekends to go and uh to go to their home. And I would kind of loiter around the house until there was an opportunity to go see them. And um one weekend I even broke into their like broke into a window. I didn't break the glass. That's crazy. But I did >> that would have been too much.
>> Yeah.
>> You would have crossed the line. Yeah.
>> But I snuck in to And I didn't realize it at the time. It was just like I didn't even realize that I was doing it.
But when I later look back at it, it was like, oh, it just like there was something there was a comforting thing or there was like this addiction that started. Um anyway, go on, man. So you had you had taken these computers in.
>> Yeah. and and you know it was just a sign that um I was really struggling with this. I couldn't stop. And you know there was such a progression to this.
You know even like taking more risk on where I'd watch porn. I'd watch it in the office on my work computer which is kind of insane when you think about it.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know I start watching different types of porn. You know categories I didn't even know existed. Right. you go down the left hand side of that porn, they category after category after category. And for me, you know, I started gravitating towards like fetish porn and then eventually porn outside of my sexual orientation.
And uh I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know why this was so intoxicating and why I couldn't stop.
>> And the problem was wrong with that type of porn, but for me, it brought up so much shame.
And that shame was so debilitating in my life. And so it was really a painful experience. You know, this was a long time ago. So there wasn't information around that. There wasn't a place to go and talk about this stuff. So, you know, I just had this kind of really horrible feeling. I was engaging in a behavior that didn't feel like it was in alignment with my values and I was suffering.
>> Man, I'm sorry to hear I'm sorry to hear that, man. I I I know that we've we've talked about this kind of a lot and and I've heard you share before and but anytime somebody says that they're that like they feel a lot of shame like it just really resonates with me, man. You know, I've felt a lot of that in my life is just shame for different things, you know. Um it's so powerful >> and you can't stop.
>> And you said this sounds like a long time ago, man. I've had friends that I've talked to this week. Yeah.
>> That it's the same it's the same story.
>> Um Yeah, man. I I can relate to like looking at pornography and the just the shame, the horror you feel after, but then you still need something that but then like it kind of wears off or you get out of that shame and then you again are looking for something that'll kind of give you a feeling something makes me feel good about myself or I'm not having I'm not dating well or I'm afraid of women anything whatever's going on and then you find yourself back there. Well, you know, it's interesting the ease and accessibility of porn today anyway make it so easy to regulate your emotions with it, right? You just think about how you're able to really avoid discomfort.
>> Like, what do you mean exactly? Avoid it. Avoid it. Because here's the deal, right? If you're feeling anxious, you watch porn, you feel temporarily calm, right? You're feeling bored, you watch porn, you feel some stimulation. you're feeling lonely, you watch porn, you feel artificial connection. So porn for me can actually affect and change my mood.
So So why is that a bad thing, right?
And so because porn can work in the short term. Okay? But what happens especially for me is I weaken my ability to regulate my own emotions.
>> So stopping watching porn wasn't just stopping a bad habit. I had to learn how to regulate my own emotions. I had to learn to deal with triggers and urges.
And so there was this kind of incredible process that kind of weaning myself off porn was just not easy.
>> Um, thanks for sharing, man. Um, yeah, let's go back into your journey a little bit.
>> Yeah. And so, you know, we're in this place right now where I'm, you know, using porn to deal with the pain of being Steve.
>> You were in this place.
>> Yeah. So and you know at that time I was in a relationship as well and great girl and you know throughout that relationship the more porn that I consumed things started to change you know you know sex wasn't about connection making love it was about intercourse over time it was about replicating what I'd seen in the movies you know I often like to say pornography abuse literally burns off the nerve endings of cent uality in relationships, less kissing, touching, holding, caressing, and that certainly was the case for me. And you know, over time in that relationship, you know, I experienced a lot of sexual dysfunction.
I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection during sex.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Over time, I actually didn't even want to have sex with her. I've been so desensitized to sex with all the porn I was watching and masturbation I was engaging in. And towards the very end, I couldn't orgasm unless I was thinking about a porn scene I had seen earlier that day.
>> Wow.
>> So, pornography robbed me of my manhood.
And you know that pearl poor girl. I mean, I mean, talk about affecting her self-esteem and self-worth. Like, what's wrong with me? Why doesn't he desire me anymore? Am I not attractive anymore?
>> And I had no ability to talk about this at this time. I had so much shame over I had this incredible double life. So, you know, porn helps destroy that relationship.
And so, and I'm not talking about the guy who's casually consuming porn. I was abusing pornography and, you know, >> relying on it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was it was just uh um what you notice is that men who abuse pornography, you know, there it comes with some consequences. And you know, for me, pornography was this gateway drug, right? All those lines in the sand I had of behaviors that I would never cross over and engage in all got washed away.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Pornography was a gateway drug that led to strip clubs, erotic massages, escorts, really dark, dark places. It was so painful. You know, there came a point in time in my life where I couldn't even make eye contact with the man in the mirror >> really >> because I knew the truth.
When I think about this journey, I mean, porn was like the culprit.
So, it just didn't work for me.
>> Did it get to a point where it didn't work and then you kind of evolved onto other stuff or how did like, >> you know, in 2008 my life just kind of blew up? I collapsed emotionally, spiritually, professionally, everything kind of came to a head and I absolutely blew up my life uh unfortunately.
And um but that was the time I also had the courage to kind of ask for and get help and uh not an easy thing to do to kind of talk about these issues, get help for these issues and uh it was hard coming out of the gates to get better from this stuff, you know.
>> Yeah. How'd you know? What was the Was there like kind of a breaking point? If it's okay to ask you.
>> Yeah, please. I mean, >> thank you, bro, for just being so open and like transparent about some of this, man. I think I was scared about even like talking about this. Not cuz I'm scared of like I don't know. I don't know why I was I don't know. I know you're such like a you know this is like your world and you're you care so much about helping people with this situation man. Um so I don't know why I was but um like did there come a point for you where it was just like this is like >> I just this is it you know >> I you know I think the um I knew I had to get help. I knew I was in a lot of trouble.
I was getting the best help that was available and I was still struggling and not because I had a desire to get better. The one thing I did really, really well is I didn't give up.
>> I kept coming back. The one thing I really did well was I had so many good people in my life that saw something in me I couldn't see in myself.
>> They refused to give up on me.
I had incredible family. My mom, my brothers, my sister who loved me unconditionally and were like a pillar of strength when I was so weak. So I was so lucky to have such good people in my life. And uh I had to fight for my recovery. Wasn't easy. It was not easy.
I had to fight and fight and fight. But I'll tell you what, I never gave up. And I live a pretty incredible life today.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I'm married to a woman. I absolutely adore my wife, Jennifer. Best thing that's ever happened to me. She's an incredible, incredible human being.
>> Amen.
>> And has made me such a healthier, better man.
>> I am so blessed for her. And we had our son Theo almost a year ago. We started a family >> and all byproducts of recovery.
And so I'm a huge believer in the power of recovery, the benefits of men getting into recovery, especially as it relates to sexual compulsivity and porn abuse. You know, when you think about my recovery journey, right, I think about it kind of in three stages. Healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity. Healthy intimacy. First person I had to have an intimate relationship with is myself.
>> I had to get more comfortable with Steve. I had to stop running and numbing. I had to learn to sit with discomfort. I had to learn to really identify the root causes that were driving these compulsions because porn was not my problem. Steve was my problem.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah, man. Getting to know yourself.
Did you feel like yourself was like your like self was like hidden kind of or that yourself had never developed? Does that make any sense?
>> Yeah, I think probably both. All I know is I was so uncomfortable in my own skin. You know, I suffered with anxiety.
I suffered with depression. I didn't feel good about myself as a man. You know, I had such trouble being in relationships, experiencing love, and I was so disconnected not only from myself, but from others. And it kind of made sense why I abused pornography. I was just really unhappy.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, and that's, you know, the thing that I've learned over the years is that recovery is not about stopping a behavior.
Recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from.
>> Were you able to notice some of the things that you felt like you were escaping from that you felt like were kind of sending you in that direction?
>> Yeah. Right. And I I I was kind of emotionally unstable. Right. And so part of recovery is being able to regulate your own emotions, right? Part people think that like recovery looks like this. It doesn't. It looks like a chart of the Dow Jones.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And so what you I end up doing recovery is just kind of softening the peaks and valleys so that I could exist in life and, you know, not have to numb the pain of the way I was living my life. And so, you know, part of that involved being able to have a relationship with my sexuality that's beautiful and empowering and made me feel good about myself as a man.
>> That's so missed in recovery circles.
Everything is about abstinence. And I get that there's value in abstinence.
But if you truly want to transcend this compulsion, you have to build the life that's more enjoyable, more purposeful than the life you were living, right? Or else you're going to be vulnerable to returning to it. So part of that means like, dude, Steve, you've got to learn how to be in a relationship. You got to learn how to experience the joys of your sexuality. You have to learn how to experience meaningful connection in order to truly transcend this compulsion.
>> Yeah. It's so funny you're saying this because I was thinking the other day.
It's like it's one thing to kind of like refrain from things, right? Like I'm refraining from drugs and alcohol and I'm, you know, like I'm like I'm uh refraining from things that I'm addicted to. But it's another thing like but if you don't have a life outside of that, then you're just sitting there playing defense all the time. That's correct.
>> I was just thinking about that the other day. Somebody's like, "What do you like to do?" And I'm like, you know, "Well, my my hobbies became my jobs." And I'm like, "Yeah, I got to find I got to find some things to fall in love with." Yeah.
>> I got to find like And there's so many things.
>> How about a great woman?
>> Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's >> that would be awesome.
>> I Hey, >> just saying.
>> I'm I'm down. But yeah, I see exactly what you're saying.
>> Like, I live a life today where I don't need pornography.
>> I don't need alcohol. I don't need drugs. You know, this is like a journey around really healthy masculinity. You know, for so much of my life, my behaviors were not in alignment with my values.
>> Yeah.
>> And I suffered, right? I needed porn to deal with the way I was living my life.
So, when I started to live my life in alignment with like honor, integrity, love, service, kindness, I felt good about myself as a man. Like I didn't need to numb the pain of Steve. Yeah, >> I could look in the mirror and be like, "That's a good guy most days."
>> Yeah, >> that's good stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that's often what's missed in recovery. This is not just about abstinence.
It's about becoming emotionally regulated kind of socially connected, living with honesty and integrity so that you don't need some maladaptive coping mechanism to deal with life.
>> Amen.
>> Yeah, man. I I think this has been like I mean I have so many friends that that talk about this a lot and even women >> I was talking to this girl the other day and I said you know I have a guy coming in who started a recovery center for a porn addiction >> and she's like h >> you know I struggle with that. I was like it shocked me.
>> Yeah.
>> It I had never heard a woman just say that to my face and casually.
>> Yeah. you know, um, why do so many men struggle with this?
>> So, here's the truth that no one tells anybody. This is really, really difficult to overcome. It's almost comical. You go online and you see these ads. We'll fix your porn problem in 14 days. No, you won't.
>> No, not happening. Sorry. You know, there and there there are a bunch of reasons why this is so hard. the ease and accessibility of this make this like a phenomenon we've never seen before.
And it's not just porn, it's sexualized social media.
>> And so, so I'm in long-term recovery from cocaine addiction. And could you imagine an early recovery having to walk around all day long with a pocket full of cocaine and not do it when you have some uncomfortable feeling come up?
>> What do you think it's like with these guys that have their drug of choice in their hand on their phone? Yeah. So the instant access makes this challenging.
So that's one thing, but there's a lot more going on. And so when you think, this is the way I think about it, right?
And so I think that pornography kind of hijacks the brain's reward system and so disregulates your nervous system. Porn becomes this learned shortcut to avoid discomfort. So when you stop watching porn, you're not just stopping a bad habit. You are literally kind of throwing away your primary regulation tool.
>> And when you stop watching porn, I don't know if you can relate to this, I certainly can. Your nervous system can go haywire, >> right? You can feel irritable. You could feel anxious, flat mood, low energy, and cravings. And these cravings can feel primal. They're literally a function of multiple systems in your brain and body, like screaming out all at once that something's missing for your survival.
>> Wow.
That's why guys return to the behavior or quote unquote relapse. This is not about willpower. This is not about moral failure. This is biology and neuroscience.
>> Your brain has been conditioned with all the porn that you've watched. And your nervous system has yet to find another way to regulate itself. So recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. It's retraining your nervous system. It's learning how to deal with urges and cravings so they weaken over time.
Second challenge is that you've heard it in my story, right? Men use porn as a way to numb, avoid, or suppress emotional pain, anger, pressure, anxiety, depression, trauma that none of us want to feel. And so when you stop watching porn, these feelings come back with a vengeance. So unless you begin to identify and heal those root causes, you are going to routinely return to the one thing you know provides you temporary relief and that's porn.
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That's how it happens with a lot of us.
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But some men it just shows up everywhere that you kind of get addicted to it like that. It's like a guy may not have a lot of problem. A guy may be healthy but uh he accidentally picks up some cocaine off the street and now he's using it, right? As opposed to a guy who like is hurting and goes to look for cocaine or porn. You know, I'm just I'm using cocaine as I don't know why I use that.
Like, you know, there's some guys who accidentally it just shows up on their phone. Maybe it's a popup or whatever, or they just are they have some sexual energy and they take it there >> and they're not really maybe they're healthy when they get there. And then there's guys who are unhealthy that go there um for a fix it feels like. So, it feels like there's kind of two different >> 100% 100. There's casual porn use.
>> Okay. So, not everybody is >> not at all >> like is is trying to um has all these things that they that they need to repair.
>> That's correct.
>> Okay. I got it. There are guys out there that are continue to ga engage in the behavior despite consequences and right and so I think these statistics say 10 to 15% of men have an addiction or severe unhealthy relationship with pornography. So I'm talking about that category of men.
>> Yeah. Because for me I know I never had like the addiction to pornography like I had the use of it.
>> Give it time. Give it time.
>> Don't sell yourself short.
Please, no. Um, but I definitely had uh where it it was an it was a way instead of having to connect with the woman.
Yeah.
>> I would this is an easier way and that became like just an easier safer way. I didn't have an So, I guess there isn't an addictive element there, but I didn't have like the the daily like, you know, like the that draw to it. I had um more like like intimacy issues with talking with women and stuff like that and um and then I would just end up using doing masturbation a lot of times not even to pornography but uh but then once porn became more prevalent and stuff like that it was easier.
>> Well, I think you highlighted a really good point. There's another component to this. Porn abuse, >> porn addiction, sexual compulsivity, whatever label you're throwing at it >> is often referred to as an intimacy disorder. Mhm.
>> Meaning for many men, this is about more than just a sexual behavior. This is about a pattern of avoiding emotional connection. You just highlighted >> that was my thing.
>> That's right.
>> Emotional connection was tough for me. I didn't have any experience of it. And so when I finally got into like like dating or like where you're having attraction with girls and they're having attraction for you and women, um it was alarm it was like I I it was scary I guess or it was alarming. It was a lot of things and I didn't have like a safe outlet to talk about it. Um and I didn't have any groundwork of like healthy connection at all.
So that uh so I think it yeah that just made it like kind of tough and then to avoid it I would be like okay well I have these sexual feelings I'll just go and uh use jerking off or whatever something like that as opposed to uh trying to figure out how to work them out because working them out in real time when you're a kid like when you're young you know when you're adolescent or whatever it's kind of scar you know it's like a lot of that's scary you know >> yeah where do you go to talk about this stuff >> right and your peers Some of them are kind of helpful, but some of them are also like like other kids can be [ __ ] about the stuff. So, um anyway, I'm trying to some of it I can't I can't remember exactly some of the ways, but yeah, instead of like engaging sometimes I'll be like, "Oh, I'm too nervous to even talk to that girl. I'll just masturbate later on or something."
>> You know, it's it's interesting you make sense at all.
>> Makes perfect sense. I think men men >> begin to prefer the safety of porn versus the unpredictability of relationships and real people.
>> Yeah.
>> So once again, recovery is not just about stopping a behavior. Recovery is learning how to relate, engage, and connect with others. Recovery is about learning how to experience real intimacy, which sorry, has to include some vulnerability and taking some emotional risk. Recovery is about learning to experience the joys of connection and love, right? Because you know, if you're not on that path, it's hard not to be in pain and suffering.
>> And so, it's so important in recovery.
So, when you think about why this is so hard, right? You just talked about it, right? If you don't understand the neuroscience and the nervous system regulation, guys just stay in this hamster wheel loop. If you don't identify some of the root causes that are driving this compulsion, you're vulnerable to returning to it. And if you don't do a deeper dive around intimacy and what's blocking you from connection, you stay in pain and lonely.
So, kind of all three of these need to be addressed in order for lasting recovery to occur.
>> Yeah. But it's more than that. And I'll tell you a few other thoughts I have on why this is so hard.
Early recovery can be very painful.
>> And so when you so overstimulate your brain from pornography and from sexualized social media, when you stop engaging those behaviors, your mood can be flattened. You can have low energy and you can have intolerable boredom.
>> And people think that boredom is the enemy. It's not. It's actually your body recalibrating.
Everything you want in life is on the other side of you learning how to tolerate boredom.
>> But for so many men, they quit too early because they can't sit with this discomfort.
The other challenge we see constantly is that so many guys quit before the miracle happens.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, I struggled for many years before I was able to make real progress in my recovery. You know, oftentimes in recovery circles, we we measure sobriety success by continuous days of sobriety.
30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 6 months, a year, all good stuff, right? All this stuff, >> right?
>> However, however, that cannot be the sole measurement of progress because for many guys, myself included, they're not going to get it right away, right? It's going to be a journey. And if you keep kind of having to relapse and you go down this massive shame spiral that you're failing, that you're a failure, you give up.
>> So recovery is about becoming emotionally regulated, uh, socially connected, learning to live with honor and integrity so that you don't need porn anymore. That can take time.
Recovery is about building a life you don't need to escape from. That can take time. And so for many guys, especially single guys, right, where there's not external leverage or consequences on you, right, a married guy, he's really in trouble his relationship. He's got to get sober or the marriage is at risk, right? That's one dynamic. But now you got a single guy right now. What is the motivation for him right now to continue on this work? You got to keep that person inspired and motivated to continue to do the work. And guess what?
If the best that you can do is watch 80 to 90% less porn in any given month, great job, >> right?
>> Great job. As long as that is in conjunction with you developing new habits to take better care of yourself physically, spiritually, and emotionally.
>> Amen.
>> Right. Recovery is a the ability to sustain abstinence will be a byproduct of you taking better care of yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
>> Yeah, it's a three-sided deal, >> 100%. So guys quit too early. Like where you going? We just got started. And so why not also measure consistency of going to the gym, consistency of making social plans, consistency of learning a new hobby, >> keeping your word, >> dude, taking care of yourself.
>> Measure that stuff in addition to your sober day count.
>> Yeah. There's a lot of other factors that start to gauge like that that you can use to self-gauge as well and that are super important. But also a lot of those factors are things that it's also just like you know uh it's getting up. It's getting up being active. I want to take care of myself physically. You know I want to meditate.
I want to have a relationship with a higher power. I want to like nurture this gift this thing that I am. Right?
And there's this other it's such a Pandora's box porn is because it's like here's this thing and it's just it's tricked. It's tricked. It's it's it's it's like a it's a just a finely calculated molecule of the devil really, >> you know, and it's it's and so when sometimes people are like, man, we're not at war. There's not a lot going on.
But we're sitting here losing a battle a lot of times. So, I do think there's a there's a there is this inspirational element sometimes um where I'll feel like I can I like if I want to war there's one every single day for me against the dark arts, against the things that want to drag me down, you know, against the things that are literally are uh are finessed to take away the essence of me, right?
>> The essence of me, man. And so it's like there's a battle right now, I think, for a lot of that. And a lot of us don't realize um well, and and we can get kind of like uh labied into the comfort of it. You don't think it's a big deal.
You're looking at it once or twice, right? But then you you like I would notice for myself if I was doing jerking off or whatever, something like that, the next day I'd feel a little bit kind of bad about myself or I'd be shorter with people. Um, if I looked at pornography, it made me look at uh like uh dates and stuff, it it just made me like it carried I had a little bit of shame inside of me. You don't even realize that sometimes it's like you don't think it's on the forefront of you or that it's it's affecting like the look in your eyes or anything, but there's a little bit of that in there, you know? It kind of like colors your coffee a little bit. It's like um but it's not the best color, you know. Does any of this stuff make sense that I'm saying?
>> Yeah. You you kind of rambling.
>> No, no, no. There's I want to I want to >> It's hard to explain. Yeah, you did a good job with it. A few things that come to mind.
>> Number one, you talked about the rig system.
>> And so I read this I shared this with you on the phone a few weeks ago. I read this stat that said that the dopamine spike is from the anticipation of watching the next video and not the video you're actually watching.
>> Wow. So the addiction is to the scroll and like dopamine it this is I may butcher this but I think that's what it said. Dopamine is not the pleasure chemical. It's the motivation chemical.
It's the chemical of pursuit. What's next? So social media is rigged this way. Pornography is rigged this way. You know back in the day, you know, getting access to porn was going to some creepy video store. Yeah. going behind a curtain that said adult only or beads.
Those beads that would hang it, you obviously know and all of a sudden to get this VHS in a brown paper bag, put it underneath your arm and do the walk of shame home. Yeah, >> right. But you go watch that VHS, you know, for 15 minutes, do whatever and go about your day. That's not what modernday porn abuse looks like. It's infinite novelty >> where you're constantly scrolling for sexual imagery hours at a time.
>> This is a whole new beast. Yeah, it says it right here. Industry analytics and search engine studies estimate that pornographic content accounts for roughly 20% of all internet searches on mobile devices. That's astronomical.
This is notably higher than desktop search rates, which generally clock in around 13%. The primary driver of this higher mobile percentage is the privacy, portability, and convenience that smartphones provide. Because of this, studies from major adult entertainment networks indicate the vast majority of adult content is is accessed via a cell phone. Mhm.
>> Um yeah, I read the other day that Pornhub uh which is banned uh here in Tennessee.
I do want to say that.
>> Is that right?
>> You have to have an ID to access it.
That's correct. And that's how that dude that >> that thing that they have. I think it's the um >> Tennessee Miners Act. Is that what it is?
The Protect Tennessee miners act uh is a state law mandating that commercial websites and digital platforms containing a substantial portion of content harmful to minors uh implement reasonable age verification methods. So you have to you have to enter your ID.
So that's a huge thing because it makes you take some accountability. Okay.
Well, am I is this something that I'm willing to say I do >> right?
>> Is this something I'm willing to put my name, my height, my date? Am I really you know what I'm saying? Am I willing to go that far with it? Um I love that.
I love that. Like there's been times where I've wanted to go look at stuff and that stopped me right there.
>> Great.
>> Yeah. So I do find that that is helpful because it like um Yeah. I don't want to put myself in there really >> like I want to look at it as like this guy in the distance, right?
>> Have they seen fake ID spiking right now cuz people want >> That's a great question.
>> Good business perhaps.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Around 7 to 11% of men self-report experiencing problematic pornography use um or feeling addicted.
I mean, that's unbelievable, man.
>> And it's just not porn, right? You look at the content that's on X, you look at the content that's on Instagram, Facebook reels, right? That sexualized content can have the same effect on the brain as watching pornography. And so, it's an issue. And so, we live in a really tricky time right now because it's everywhere.
>> It's unbelievable that it exists. And it's unbelievable that we allow it >> as well, you know, that we allow it.
>> Well, there's also a societal thing with guys like it it's that's what guys do, right? It's cool watching porn. And I'll tell you the truth. It ain't so cool.
>> Guys don't do it together. Guys watch a game together. I've never had a guy be like, "Hey, man. I'm having a couple of the guys over >> to watch some porn."
>> Yeah. Uh the thing that's really interesting to me is here's the truth.
>> So many men who abuse pornography, right? It affects their sexual performance. It affects how they show up in relationships and it builds shame, right? So so many men struggle with sexual performance. That's that's not a new thing. But what is new and I think quite concerning is how many of those men are under the age of 40. M >> they turn to seialis Viagra testosterone replacement therapy thinking that something's wrong with them physically when the truth is and the reality is is their sexual dysfunction is probably caused by all the porn they're consuming.
>> So heavy porn use can rewire the brain and even my own story.
>> Is that true? Heavy >> perhaps heavy porn use can rewire the brain and cause odd all types of problems in the bedroom. Like even in my own story, right? I had difficulty getting and maintaining an erection during sex, especially with a partner. I had difficulty orgasming towards the end of my run with pornography. I had difficulty maintaining an erection uh and I needed porn stimulation to stay aroused and heavy porn use can absolutely lead to premature ejaculation. M >> you know one of the things I didn't share in my story which is important to talk about right because there's probably a bunch of your listeners right now listening waiting for someone to tell the damn truth. You know when I first started consuming porn early in my life before that relationship I struggled with premature ejaculation and I had so much shame and embarrassment around it.
>> It got to a point where I'd rather not be with a woman than be with a woman and have that type of sexual performance.
You feel like you were just so nervous about sex. I mean, it makes sense. Sex is a nervous thing for >> Well, I'll tell you a few things. I didn't >> For a youngster, >> I didn't realize a few things >> for the children. Sex is nervous for the children. You know, it's a nervous thing >> even for adults.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, what I didn't realize at that time was that all the porn that I was consuming and the way that I was actually masturbating to it kind of conditioned my brain to orgasm quickly.
And that carried over to real life scenarios. Mh.
>> I didn't realize at that time that the intense porn that I was watching so overstimulated my brain leading to early orgasm.
>> So my porn use was tied to shame and secrecy which fueled kind of anxiety around sex making it kind of uncomfortable and you know porn was the cause of this.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's one area men not so manly when you think about hey you know is it really that cool right? Second challenge that guys tend to have, it can totally affect how guys show up in relationships.
>> Oh yeah, dude. Watching like like touching your body or whatever, jerking off or whatever, it was like um it was like it just made it easier than having to go and try with women and having to go and have a relationship. It made it all just easier. And if you came from like and for me I just there was so much it was so uncomfortable >> that I was like I don't really I mean I guess I had a choice >> but it just was too much of a of a easy alternative. It was like I don't I don't know how like you know I'm so embarrassed or I'm so like just have so low self-worth. so many little things they're like, man, I can't I can't go ask this girl out or do, you know, so it became this little thing and then this was the part that I was going to get that you made me think about. Sorry.
Every everything about sex felt like a secret, >> right? Like I would like it was always like when I was growing up, we would go in the woods and see the tits or whatever chiseled in the wood or whatever or you would sneak into your >> Is that still around you, you think? I'm sure it's been No, I think they had Weevils or whatever got it.
>> Stan Weevils.
>> I think it was that. I can't remember exactly. I have to look it up.
>> Okay.
>> But or it could have been one of those new ticks that uh Bill Gates unleashed or whatever. But whatever. I'm sure it's gone these days. Or it's really >> Yeah, >> it's eroded to an A cup, you know, for sure.
>> And what's the point to visit it then, right? Come on.
>> At the time, those things were Oh, >> I'm making a road trip for an A cup, >> dude. They had a woodpecker would land on one of them.
That's big.
>> Pretty nice.
>> So, uh, but dude, the the biggest thing I think about like it was just like see everything was se sex when I was young became like secretive.
>> It became like secretive because yeah, if you were looking at pornography, she was doing masturbation. He was sneaking off and doing it. So, everything became secretive. So, then like everything like even when like dating, I never want anybody to know was I was very secretive about stuff.
>> So, it always had all this like a little bit of extra like kind of taboo around it. I think I don't even know what that means, but it was just like, you know, when things are in secret, it's it's, you know, they they things in secret can be kind of uncomfortable.
Things you're always trying to hide can be kind of uncomfortable.
>> That's right. And I, you know, I think also that secrecy can lead to shame.
>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you're always if something's in secret, you're always worried somebody's going to find out about.
>> That's right.
And I didn't have any positive like uh relationship with sex or no like I didn't have any not like I didn't nobody taught me told me nothing about it. It was just like your body you change and then you're like dealing with it. And um >> I mean I'm still waiting to get the birds and beads conversation from dad.
>> You know what I'm saying?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They should just have a decent man that travels around the country helping just have the birds and the bees conversation.
>> Like a temporary rented dad to have the conversation with you when you're like 12.
>> Yeah. Just like some wiener Santa or whatever who he travels around. He pulls up. You know what I'm saying? Do it outside where it's in view of, you know, where the Lord can see it.
>> But um anyway, uh you were going into a second uh part about how it affects relationships. And dude, I I even remember like if you been if I if I say if you, but if I'd been like, you know, doing touching myself or whatever, jerking off or whatever like that, then I would uh >> it you're right when you said it's like it changes the amount of intimacy. Now it's like if my girl and I are going somewhere, maybe I I I don't I would I wouldn't touch her touch her elbow or like you know what I'm saying? Or like give her a pinch or like you know what I'm saying? I wouldn't create that energy. So a lot of that energy disappears. And that's the thing I think that uh we don't realize a lot. It's that little like that yin and yang, that whole thing that keeps like nature and society and and really the future because of procreation which keeps it all in balance is this kind of tension, right? A romantic kind of like samba between like like her aura and mine and pornography like uh weakens that. And then you're right, people take into their head like a woman will take in her head like, "Oh, something's wrong with me or he thinks I'm not this way or I can't do these things >> which is, you know what I'm saying? So, it's just it's it's a tough cycle." And I think a lot of it does fall on us men because we got to be stronger. You know, I'm not saying that I'm great at it or anything, >> but I do think that somebody's got to come to the rescue of us and I think it has to be us.
>> Well, no one's coming to rescue us, right? You got to take accountability in your own life. But I think you you you really eloquently kind of laid out the dynamics that porn abuse can have in relationship.
>> Did I really?
>> You really did. That was really well said.
>> And uh you know, >> I just I I feel bad about some of the I feel like dang, I wasted a couple relationships. I wasted some >> and I wasted somebody's time and I wasted like >> and I didn't even know it.
>> But yeah, some of that >> you know it now. The only way you learn and grow.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know what you often see when men abuse porn over time they can lose attraction for their partners because they can't compete with porn. I mean, how unfair is that, >> right? There could be less desire for romance. I'll say it again. Pornography abuse burns off the nerve endings of sensuality in relationships. Less touching, holding, kissing, caressing.
So if I'm watching porn, you know, maybe I don't notice the waves in my wife's hair. If I'm watching porn, we we hold hands less perhaps. So pornography abuse can deaden the vibrancy of our partners, our wives, and our marriages. I mean, that kind of sucks.
>> Yeah. Well, it dims the way you feel.
For me, it dims the way I feel if I'm waking up.
>> That's right.
>> Like, oh, I still the my first thought sometimes is if I'd looked at pornography the day before, it's like, oh man, I wish I hadn't done that. I think I cannot do it. You know, it's like, but you're always in this war. You know, it puts you always in like this battlefield.
>> It's like being hooked up to an ivy drip of shame.
>> And for not every guy, right? We're not talking about the casual use. We're talking about the compulsive use. And and the other thing you you tend to see over time, the guys that end up abusing pornography, porn and masturbation just become the preferred sexual outlet.
>> And shame and secrecy and guilt become the norm. And because of that shame, so many guys, especially our young guys, are not dating. They've given up on dating.
>> They're not actually having physical sex. I read a stat not too long ago that one out of three men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year.
>> One out of three men, >> one out of three men under the age of 30 have not had sex in the last year.
>> But some of those men could be 10 years old or whatever.
>> I would imagine. I I didn't look at the the fine print of the thing. I would imagine it probably told me age 18 to or 30 is >> Oh, they should say that then.
>> They should probably. Yeah, good point.
>> Cuz yeah, if it's like this 5-year-old, you're like, "Yeah, I hope not."
>> Yeah, we we'll fact check this right now.
>> Anyway, recent data from the General Social Survey indicates that nearly one quarter of young adults aged 18 to 29 reported having no sex in the past year. Looking specifically at younger single men under 30, the rate of sexlessness can climb closer to onethird. And then bro, you know what happens? I think when when you start to when you start to like when you dim the men in a culture, anything can come in there.
>> Sure.
>> It's like when you dim the warriors who are standing at the gate, anything can slip in there, you know? And then they come in and now they got the women on Only Fans cuz the cuz they're not in a relationship and there's not like a provider and there's not like a leader and you're not part of like a we're doing this together, right? And then like everything's for sale. It's like what's for sale now, you know?
>> And I don't mean that. I'm It's not ne none of that's negativity at anybody.
It's just like uh uh you know it's just like um I don't know. Do I sound judgmental? I'm just kind of looking at I think it all makes me just like >> I don't know. I feel like we're stronger than this, but we we are in a war.
>> Well, I think what you're highlighting and what I'm hearing you say is so many of our young men in particular, they lack confidence in themselves. They're full of shame, right? They don't have the uh they can't handle rejection, right? The world needs healthy, strong men, and pornography abuse is emasculating our men today.
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> That was definitely the case for me, 100%. But here's the deal.
>> And I need your listeners to hear this right now.
>> Yeah. Amen. Cuz I don't want to get stuck in the D parts of it and that things are not healable because that's not the truth.
>> That's not the truth. The truth is, it is time to reclaim your damn manhood >> type [ __ ] >> You know, seriously, no, I feel you.
>> Enough is enough, >> right?
>> Enough is enough right now. There's a cesspool out there that are killing our men today. So, let me tell you, in my own journey, when I got the right type of help, >> I was able to work through these sexual dysfunction. When I got the right type of help, I was able to be in a healthy relationship where I felt good about myself as a partner, as a man. So, it's not just like Steve stops watching porn and everything fixes Excel, right?
>> Don't work that way, right?
>> It's a process of retraining your brain, your body, and your relationship to intimacy.
>> Amen. What were some of the first like the initial moments? Was there kind of like a day or a time in a rehab? Because you went to some different Is it okay to say you went to some different rehabs?
>> I went to all of them.
>> You did?
boy. [ __ ] boy, dude. Steve was a animal out there in the part. Like his old partying stories are great, bro.
>> That's right.
>> You have some great ones. And I'm not talking just sec I'm not talking sexual.
I'm talking like just the your AA partying stories. And sometimes we tell those war stories because it keeps you out of the battle.
>> 100%. And you got to laugh at them now.
>> Oh, dude. If I go to an AA meeting and I'll laugh with my friends about like times where we all used to do stupid stuff or something ridiculous, right?
The feeling I get laughing with friends, I leave out of there. I don't want to drink. I don't want to use. I don't want to do anything harmful to myself because I've just felt connection and that gives me something that that I'm supposed to have.
>> So like you ever see like on a maybe Theo or the Red Hot Chili Peppers go on tour, they have t-shirts that list all the cities they visited.
>> Yeah.
>> I did that with rehabs.
>> Yeah.
>> So I mean, come on, dude. And so >> what was your tour called? Do you have a tour name?
>> I don't have a name for it. maybe you could help me out with that. And so, you know, it's just the journey is the journey, man.
>> And so, once again, it's it's, you know, it's about perseverance and not giving up. But I'll tell you some things that are interesting that that when I was able to get the right type of help as it relates to my porn addiction, I was able to stabilize my arousal.
>> Stabilize your arousal.
>> Arousal. Okay. When I >> Tell me what that means when you say that. You know, I I was uh pornography abuse so distorted my view of women.
Pornography abuse had me in a constant place of euphoric recall and fantasy, right? And so I had to learn how to not rely on that kind of dopaminefueled kind of energy to deal with life. I had to learn how to build sensation for sexual experiences to be present in sexual experiences. So when I got into recovery, dude, my sex life was so enjoyable, right? I learned how to kind of make love and connection and kissing and sensuality, all kind of beautiful stuff. When you get into recovery, often times you hear you have better erections and more satisfying sex. That's what I want. I want that super erection.
>> That's it. And you hear all the time when guys get into recovery and sustain recovery, it's so much more enjoyable.
They're present for it. They're not full of shame. There's a confidence that comes from it.
>> Yeah, that's what I Yeah. I want that wiener that's like plays the game. Like I feel like my my wiener is like a designated hitter. Like it'll get up to the plate. It's kind of like but it knows it's not going to be out in the field. It's just like showing up for the freaking you know.
>> Otani is a DH sometimes.
>> Otani is.
>> Yes. M. So, >> well, well, what are you trying to say?
I got a small wing.
>> I wanted to say that. I'm not sure what I was saying with that. Although he hits a lot of home runs. So, >> hey, there we go.
>> That's what we're talking about. Uh, we might take that part out, which is fine.
Um, so, so you're saying like you know, and you noticed that like do you remember do you remember like a first experience where you kind of noticed something small that you were like, "Oh, wow. These things that I'm doing in recovery are working."
>> And then what were some of the things that you were doing in recovery? Well, I did a bunch in recovery, right? And so I did a lot of therapy. I was really active in 12step recovery. I was, you know, had my own personal coaches that were really helpful. And and I'll tell you, I believe that uh recovery is a team sport. I think men need other men to become better men.
>> Amen.
>> I think men need vulnerability role models. Men need love and support. Men need around other men that have similar life experiences around sex to transcend the shame that's keeping our lives small. Praise God. Really, really important. I think men heal best in community as it relates to sexual compulsivity. And so, >> yeah, it's so hard to heal in shame by yourself, bro.
>> You can't. I don't think you can.
>> I know, man.
>> I don't think you can. It's >> tough for people, huh?
>> Yeah. So, I think, you know, and in conjunction with that, so many men today are so isolated and so lonely >> and so that's the driver of some of these behaviors. So once again, the road map to healing has to lay the the the groundwork for connection and community.
>> Mhm.
>> And so where you practice kind of being part of something bigger than yourself, you practice honesty. You practice vulnerability. It gets modeled to you. Really important for men to see other men living this way >> like in recovery circles and stuff.
>> 100%.
>> Oh yeah, man. Oh, I'll sometimes, man, I'll be in a meeting and it's like some guy will say something.
My friend James Basher, he always tells me uh he says, "We are the keys to each other's locks." That's what he says.
>> That's sweet.
>> It's one of the best things, man. I think about it every single day, you know? It's like something that gives me hope, I think, a lot of times. Yeah.
Because it's like uh somebody will say something, man, that like something inside of me has been trying to say my whole life >> and I just couldn't put the right few words together. It doesn't even have to be a big huge words or fancy words.
Sometimes it's just a simple thing, but somebody will say it >> and a part of me will exhale that's been waiting to exhale for so long.
>> How sweet is that?
>> Yeah. Oh, it's amazing, man. So, yeah. I I I can't iterate how much recovery and and the community, right? Yeah. And then the fact that like dude sometimes like I'll notice like uh especially these days you we get so caught up in our own worlds but it almost feels like a gift when I think about when somebody else comes into my mind or heart like there's times where I purposely sit down I want to think about people and stuff but if I'm just like oh I'll be like oh >> I just saw them the other day and they mentioned this let me call and check in about it or just something that's like if it's about somebody else >> bro that's It's like the when that happens naturally in my head, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. And it's just because of community just and it only happens if I go to those meetings, if I if I'm interacting with guys. That's right.
>> If I'm a part of of of community, right?
>> And you need guys in your life like, "Okay, Theo, enough with the show.
What's really going on, >> right?
>> You need guys like that."
>> Oh, dude, to tell somebody that, bro, I'm [ __ ] Yeah. Like this. I was in a meeting this morning, man. I'm trying to Let me think about what I said if I'm really honest.
Right. I got into a meeting. A lot of times I'll do a Zoom in the mornings. Uh you and I go to one that's similar. Is that okay to say?
>> Please.
>> Um and I'll be in the gym. I'll work out while I'm in there. So I'll listen because it helps me get two things done.
It makes me feel pretty like I'm doing something.
>> And uh what' I say today? Oh, I'm trying to keep some negative things out of my head. So I'm staying focused. I'm staying on a path. Um, like I'm I'm staying active because if I stay active, I stand a better chance when those things come into my head. Uh, and I was trying to be honest to guys like, hey, these are some of the things that I've been thinking about. I know that these things grow if I don't share about them at this level. At this level of being a seed, I know it'll grow into a it'll grow into a cactus that I don't want inside of me. So, I have to share it at a seed, right? I had to learn a lot of times. I freaking juggled a lot of cactuses because But learning to share something at a seed level. Um >> calling it out early.
>> Calling it out early. Yes. And then just at like uh >> Yeah. Like I'm so sick of myself, but I feel like I'm the only person that I have.
>> And that was like and I know it's not true, but to share even if it's a feeling, right? Because once I shared this feeling, I know it's not true. I have a ton. I have a lot of friends. I have people that love me. But sometimes I have to share what a feeling is, right? So it doesn't cuz that feeling sometimes can grow if I don't share it.
It sits in there, you know? Anyway, does that make any sense?
>> I make, you know, it's so interesting as as you're as you're sharing, I'm just thinking about this concept of like like recovery is about this journey towards healthy masculinity.
And and when you think about like like the word masculinity often gets conflated with toxicity today, which I think is kind of unfair.
>> Oh, it's unfair and I think it's by design.
>> That's right. Masculinity to me is what you just talked about. Honesty, integrity, vulnerability, courage, being a protector, being a provider, being a great friend, showing up for others, and living a life that's bigger than just yours.
>> Yeah. And so when you think about like this journey of recovery, this journey to becoming a healthy man, what a beautiful journey it is, right? You think about like, you know, porn abuse teaches us as and trains us to objectify and disrespect women. I think healthy masculinity is about humanizing women.
Women are beautiful and amazing.
>> Yeah. And we came from a woman like what we I wonder what the effects are. See if you can find something about this. What are the effects of pornography on young men's relationship with their mothers of watching pornography?
>> You know what I'm saying? Like if you start because it's like I do notice when I'm healthy and I'm taking care of myself, I'm able to view the women in my life that uh differently, right? And I'm able to view them how they should be viewed.
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You know, I I think a lot of guys are in hiding. I think a lot of us are afraid to say that uh we know that we're in a war and everybody's going and fighting behind closed doors.
>> And that's kind of crazy when you think about that. That's kind of when you think scary.
>> That's scary.
>> Scary, >> right?
>> Scary.
>> And how can is there a way to win it that way? I don't know. Mhm.
>> Um, >> well, you know, I could tell you from the life I live today, I mean, I don't feel like I'm in a war, you know? I have a life that's kind of rooted in love.
>> Bro, you've changed so much since I met you, man.
>> Yeah, I have.
>> You give me hope.
>> Yeah.
>> For the life I could live, man.
>> That's right. And you know, >> you really do.
>> I'm glad >> you do. And you were always everybody's favorite. You said earlier that people cared about you or like there was something there was always somebody like >> Yeah. Your family is always You were like the guy in the meetings, dude. It was like cuz we went to meetings that had like some fancy people in them.
>> Real fancy. Some tall people, too.
>> Oh, yeah. Tall guys. All types of >> one tall guy. Anyway.
>> Yeah. Couple of real gradea perverts, right? Deme, right. That's right.
>> But, bro, and it was But, bro, we got in those rooms and we Here's the thing. We laughed in there. We were People were honest. We laughed. Uh, but yeah, you were always It was like, dude, I wish I could be friends with Steve.
>> That's sweet.
>> It was true. Thank you.
>> And you you just made it. It's so important to laugh in recovery.
>> Oh, dude. People don't You got to realize this [ __ ] It is. People laugh so much. It's not just this dower thing.
>> No. No. Because this stuff is dark. It's heavy. And uh, dude, laughing at each other. I think laughter is so good for the soul, man. You read the news right now, it's so heavy. You listen to the news, it's so heavy. Finding a place to be lighthearted, to have fun and to laugh is so healing.
>> Oh yeah, man.
>> You know how many guys I struggle with that I talk to and work with that are struggling and if I can get them on the phone, I can get them to laugh.
>> Amen.
>> Oh, dude.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> It just takes it from a nine out of a 10 to a six out of a 10.
you know.
>> Yes.
>> And it's just so important to let the air out of the balloon with laughter.
>> What are the things h how do how do how do guys not realize um okay here uh Trevan found something right here. I'm going to interject real quick here to go back because I've never thought about that before. Does it affect the way I look at my my sister, my mother, women in my life and world could be your teacher, anyone if you're consuming pornography. How porn-shaped beliefs affect views of mothers. This article explains that frequent exposure to pornography reinforces rigid gender norms and the objectification of women or where women are seen primarily as sexual objects rather than full comp complex people. Yeah. As these attitudes become part of a teenage boy's belief system, he may be begin to see women, including his mother, through a more dehumanized, stereotyped lens, weakening genuine mutual respect.
And I'll tell you the uh the challenge today with what you just read is so many men today started watching porn when they're 10, 11, 12 years old, right?
That was like they're part of a generation where the iPhone just came out. And so they had access to porn at this very early stage of their life. And so by the time you get to work with them in treatment or therapy and you hear about like their childhood, they've had pretty normal childhood. Normal, right?
Not not a lot of trauma as we would understand trauma. The trauma is the porn that they started watching at 10 years old.
>> And it's just kind of intense porn. You know how many guys you hear like 10, 11, 12 years old watching rape porn?
>> Oh, >> I mean, how painful is that when you think about that? Well, yeah. You have to know. Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And you have to know that these companies and I'm not setting myself apart from anybody like I've been down these roads, you know.
>> Um >> uh but you have to know that these companies it is this is strategy by them.
>> This is a this is I believe I don't think that the people that work in porn or sex work or anything like that. I don't I I don't have any ill thoughts or any any of that towards anybody like that that's involved in it. I just think as a ma in mass that they don't have the best these these companies don't have the best interest for us right like the a lot of the pornography now it's like um mother son grandmother uh son you know you can't you can't unsee that >> right right and it's also makes you think it's like these are the most important relationships in the world boss secret you know or just like whatever it is sisters you know it's like they're taking the most valuable relationships that have been given to us by uh our creator and by the world and even by science and they're trying to manipulate those that they don't have any value to us other than sexual some sexual uh per perversion >> and if you're 12 13 14 years old consuming this stuff >> how are you supposed to process that >> yeah just even seeing the words while you're looking at pornography you see the word mother son father It's all like it's all a strategy. The devil is at work.
>> Um I believe that, you know, it's the dark arts and um I'm not saying that I don't wade through the waters of them and you know, but that's one thing you said. It's like we continue to fight. We don't give up, >> you know, and you learn so much along the way.
>> Yeah.
>> Um Yeah. Before we keep moving, I want I want to ask you too, Steve. What are there things that could be happening that uh mothers or fathers might not see that how their use of pornography or like checking out like that sexually, checking out of like their environment, you know, they're used to watching pornography um could be affecting things with their interactions with their children or their home life.
>> Uh yeah, totally. You know, it's so interesting as as a >> because sometimes you don't correlate that. No, you don't. You know what I'm saying? You just think, "Man, my marriage isn't working, but separately I'm watching porn."
>> That's right. And so, when you think about the idea of healthy masculinity, being in recovery, and being a father, right? So, I'm I'm a new father right now. And, you know, my son's young. He's he's about a year right now, but the just the the responsibility I have in modeling to him how you treat a woman, >> really important, right? the kindness that I show his wife. Getting to see affection, touch, all that stuff is really important that I don't you know you I know your story from your childhood. You know my story from my childhood that wasn't necessarily modeled to us. And so if you're watching pornography, right, and as a result of that, it's distorting your view of women can be challenging, right? You think maybe they don't know. Trust me, they know. It may not know you're watching porn, but that energy you have that you you can't hide that.
>> Yeah. The It's a little bit of shame.
It's a little bit of I'm keeping something secret. It's a little bit of something's wrong and I'm It's a little bit of >> I'm scared somebody's going to figure this out and I don't even know what it is.
>> Well, you know what happens too? Also, guys that abuse porn, right, they're just not present for their lives.
>> Yeah.
>> They're not showing up for uh for their kids, right? They're they're on their phones. They're consumed in fantasy.
They're not present. They're missing life. Yeah.
>> You're missing life. And so when you get guys get into recovery, dude, you see this all the time. They start coaching flag football teams and loving it.
They're able to show up in their lives and be present. They're better fathers.
They're better husbands. They're emotionally regulated.
>> Yeah. They're not involved. It's almost like porn is like your It's like your wiener playing video games.
>> It's not real. If you walked into a room every day and your wiener was playing a video game, it at some point you'd be like, "Turn it off and get the [ __ ] up and go outside." You know what I'm saying? Like you would tell you want your m you depends on what video game >> that's a good that's if it's Castlevania or something. Yeah.
>> But I'm just saying like anyway, I don't know what I'm saying. Um, that's one thing I've noticed in uh in meetings when I've been in when people share >> um and people start to get better, >> they start to say, "Man, >> like today I had the desire to spend time with my kids, to engage, to go outside and do this with my daughter, to like uh flirt with my wife in the kitchen." Like I I walk in the house and there's a look on my face that I'm excited to see this person that loves me. Just little things like that that I've heard guys share in meetings that are like that just let me know that um that recovery is real, you know, >> and the joy of living.
>> Yeah. What have you seen recovery look like for people? Like what are some testimonials that you've experienced in the rooms?
>> Yeah.
>> Um and even through valor, you know.
>> Yeah. And so, uh lots of good stuff. Uh let me think of a few good ones that might be Well, I'll share a story. one one of our first clients um 62 year old man been uh abusing porn for about 40 years and long time you know and uh by the time he got to Valor he was six years sober and alcoholic synonymous um but he was in so much pain he had not been divorced for 10 years had not had sex in 10 years and was so full of shame and when I first met with him you know I we're trying to like get some goals like what do you want to try to accomplish here? And I said, "Oh, you want to stop watching porn?" I said, "Awesome. We're going to help you do that. What else?
Tell me what to play with." And he he just couldn't get there. Just make something up. Tell me a long-term goal.
If you had like a genie in a bottle, you had a wish, give me something. I'll never forget what he said. He said, "You know something, Steve?
for as long as I can remember now. Uh on Sundays I go grocery shopping by myself for the week and I see families shopping and couples shopping and it's so lonely.
>> He goes, "One day I'd like to go shopping with a girl I'm dating."
>> I said, "Okay."
You know, about eight months later, that guy sent me a shot of him and his girlfriend grocery shopping and it broke me.
>> And I I remember telling my wife this story and just crying and she's like, "What's coming up for you?" And she can't really understand because two things. I know that pain of loneliness and I know how good it feels to be free of it.
>> Wow.
>> Great story.
Love that story on what's on offer here.
>> That's what's on offer here, huh?
>> Yeah. The joys of living, finding love.
Another great story you hear, you hear this with consistency. You know, I get a phone call with a guy that's maybe sober six, nine months, this one guy in particular, and he says, "Steve, you know, last night I was on the couch staring at my wife, and it's like I'm seeing her for the first time, and I can't believe how pretty she is." Wow. Like to me hearing that brings me so much joy when you kind of that fog lifts that porn induced shamebased fog lifts and you can actually see life in color versus black and white.
>> What a gift, you know.
>> Yeah, man.
>> And then you see guys that get time.
This is what drives me wild. They they they get time. and they get 6 months, nine months, a year away from pornography. And wild stuff starts happening, they go back to grad school, they launch a new business, they get a big raise. Like, what the hell's that got to do with you not watching porn?
>> Yeah.
>> Answers everything. Because what's happening now is you're transcending the shame that's keeping your life small.
>> You always hear like a guy all of a sudden guy lacks confidence in himself.
He's so full of shame. Lives a double life. He walks into a restaurant. Can never actually make eye contact with that woman at the bar. He maybe looks over, puts his head down, and walks to his table. He's now nine months sober, right? He makes eye contact, walks over, and introduces himself.
>> Yeah.
>> And they're now engaged.
>> Let's go. These are the stories of recovery.
Didn't mention anything about not watching porn.
>> Not watching porn is just the point of entry.
Learning how to live a life that you don't need to escape from is what recovery is all about. Recovery is about learning how to experience the joys of love and connection.
>> So, one simple question I tell guys all the time, it's real simple. It's real simple. Is your porn use bringing you closer to or further away from the man you want to be?
And if you don't like the answer to that question, what are you willing to do about it?
Yeah.
Yeah. It's it's uh I've been in a lot of the meetings where I've seen guys share about stuff and you've seen a guy have a new experience. You know, >> it's the best.
>> When does a lot of this is there a time that you notice how and when a lot of this starts for a lot of guys? Steve, have you been able to put together any theories about that? younger and younger, you know, because you've talked a lot about Valor on your podcast. We we have seen a lot of younger men in their 20s.
When I first started Valor, I thought I would work with guys like me, older professional men that are dealing with a porn addiction, sexual compulsivity, and need to get help. And we've worked with a fair amount of that. But we we because of your fan base, there are a lot of single men in their 20s and um challenging dynamic because they're not married, they're not in a relationship, there's no external consequences, and they've been doing this for like 10, 15 years, >> right?
>> And so it's like, you know, they've been in full-blown addiction for over a decade and they're 22 years old.
>> They don't even realize it.
>> They don't even realize it. That's the craziest part.
>> Wild. Wild.
>> It's just like a regular habit. It's like taking a uh melatonin.
>> 100%. It's just part of their life.
>> Yeah.
>> It has rewired and conditioned their brain and they're full of so much shame and they lack such confidence in themselves. So breaking them free of porn. It's interesting. How do you motivate and inspire a guy like that to stay on this journey? How do you create motivation in their life to continue on this path even though their path can be choppy at times?
>> Yes.
>> You know, how do you get that guy to continue to show up and not be in shame if he watches a little bit of porn, >> right? That guy can be getting better watching 80 to 90% less porn over any given month. Great job. Keep coming back.
>> If you return to the behavior and you relapse or return to use, own it quickly. Talk about it. Learn from it.
and keep growing.
>> Yeah.
>> And so motivating younger men is been uh a little different and to create inspiration because here's the truth.
They're so isolated and so disconnected.
They have significantly less friends than decades before. Everything is kind of online. Everything is virtual. And so the loneliness is profound.
Well, as part of existence, it's not like I think some people you don't even notice that you're lonely anymore.
That's one of the wildest things. You'll spend all day by yourself, but you won't really notice that you're cuz you have some interactions. You see people, you see them. So, there's all this hijacking of things that are real >> that would normally make you feel like you have are not alone. You see people, you hear voices, you know, I mean, you're, you know, you can even engage with people.
>> I don't know.
>> Hearing voices is perhaps the best.
>> It's like you can see people on your phone or on your computer. You can you can do FaceTime like you can. So, there's all these like like these secondary little pieces, but the connection, the tr the reality >> and remote work certainly doesn't help.
I mean, there are guys that just don't leave their home.
>> Well, yeah. Yeah, it's like you like you could basically go to work online. You could get off work, get some order some food online. Then you could uh look at pornography or something, go to bed, and that's your day. And that's your existence. And you're just sort of this thing.
>> But there's so much we're supposed to be so much more than that. I think some of it has become almost just this habit that we don't even know that we're in.
>> Yeah, I could see that. And >> I mean, yeah, and I'm not preaching at anybody. I think it's just like I don't know just the the re like the awareness that you could be in something and not realize it is something kind of wild, >> you know.
>> Yeah, I think that's that's that's absolutely true. And um >> what are some what are I want to ask you outside of Valor because you run Valor Recovery, that's your program and um >> and thank you so much. I know there was a lot of guys like who kind of came in through the podcast who you like were trying to help and offer um uh recovery too. So, thank you so much for having conversations with those guys over the years. Um >> and by the way, so many of those guys are killing it right now. Yes, they are.
>> And I'm going to say this to you because it needs to be heard. There are so many men that because of your vulnerability on this podcast talking about your challenges around that gave them the courage to reach out and ask for help.
>> Nice.
>> So your vulnerability is a gift to this world.
>> Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah.
>> Uh yeah, sometimes it's scary to be vulnerable. I don't know. It's not scary. It's like I don't know. I don't know any other way to live really, >> you know?
I don't think I know any other way to live. I don't know.
>> I don't know. Sometimes I'm I think I share too much probably. But >> well, I can tell you as it relates to this topic, I can't tell you how many conversations we've had in the thousands now where the conversation starts.
Theo said it was okay to talk about this.
I've shared those stories with you over the years.
>> Yeah, I know you have. I appreciate it.
>> That's important, man.
Yeah, >> it's important stuff. What a gift.
>> Yeah, it's I uh Yeah, I mean it makes it's it's tough to know that a lot of people are hurting, you know. It's tough to know that I that we've all hurt, >> you know. It's tough to know most of the people that I love the most have have have hurt >> a lot of us, you know, me included.
>> Um and we didn't just end up, you know, Yeah. I'm just glad. I've met a lot of good guys through through uh recovery, you know. Well, there wouldn't be a program, you know, if you didn't do it.
>> That's right. And the great thing about recovery is you can live a life that's superior to the life you were living.
>> Yeah. That's the truth.
>> That's the beauty of it.
>> And so, not easy sometimes to get there, but if you stay the course, you don't give up, you keep leaning into this, you're going to build a life that brings you joy. where you don't need to engage in behaviors to numb the pain that you're in. That's a process.
>> Yeah.
What What are some of the triggers that you see uh that you notice? Is that okay to ask you?
>> Yeah. Like, you know, there's just a patterns, right? So many men struggle with profound loneliness and boredom.
They're disconnected. They're alone. And so when you look at these urges, right, there's tends to be a predictability to when you're vulnerable to them, right?
So late at night scrolling on your phone, dude, leave the phone. Don't bring the phone in the bedroom.
>> Yeah. Shut it down.
>> Simple fix. Well, Steve, I work all week long. Friday nights, I'm by myself and there's just this period of time right now of unstructured time where I'm really vulnerable. Okay, let's make a plan around that. Why don't you Why don't you book dinner? Why don't you bookend the the evening with a friend of yours so you're not alone right now?
Make some a dinner date with a friend right now. Get out of the house. Right?
And so there's just these patterns that men experience as it relates to stress, boredom, and loneliness.
>> And so when you pull up and kind of look at this stuff, right, and learn from this stuff, you can Men don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
And so working with people that understand this can go a long way to putting you on the path to being successful.
>> Amen, man. Yeah.
>> The other thing that's really tricky today is >> even going for a walk with a friend.
Just go for a walk, >> dude. My best time.
>> Maybe we'll go for a walk after this, me and you.
>> Yeah, I'll go for a walk with you. Got a little time.
>> No, I'll make time.
>> I'd love it, dude. Yeah, bro. Thank you, bro. Dude, there's nothing better than going for a walk with one of your friends. It might seem like And even if y'all are straight, y'all can do it.
Even that street you could do it.
>> But some of that stuff got hijacked by the gay community, I think. Like just going for a walk with you, buddy. I'm not saying it did.
>> Yeah.
>> But it got slightly hijacked.
>> Just just a hint.
>> Hey, we got to take our we got to take our pedestrian rights back. Um but anyway, what were we saying?
>> We were talking about triggers.
>> Oh, yeah. So, that's when for me, I noticed things that would lead me to do masturbation or be touching my body sometimes like that looking at pornography. Stress, right?
>> I'm up later than I need to be. A lot of times I'll have a deal with myself. If I have a plan to go to bed, [ __ ] will happen. Shit'll happen with work. Next thing you know, I'm up 45 minutes later, I can't handle it, right? So now it's like I got to go to sleep. I'll think that masturbation will help me go to sleep, right? Um what else? Uh >> social media.
>> Yeah, social media just I know I know that that keeps me up late. So I I don't I do a pretty good job of that >> of like I know now when I when I open up there's nothing super good in there, >> you know? I'll maybe say, "All right, I'm gonna go for 30 seconds." They find one thing that's kind of engaging and I'm shutting it down.
>> I'm starting to realize that what a Pandora's box it is.
>> It really is. And you know, the science will support that. Like these dopamine spikes from this endless scrolling on social media >> and you you look at the sexual content on social media. It may not be full porn, but it can be pretty explicit.
>> Yeah. And and so it's a real problem because it's this funnel and often time guys in early recovery get tripped up because they're on Instagram right now there's this kind of image which is a link to an only fans account and all of a sudden they're back in the dance and so that's really important that kind of you know endless scrolling endless seeking novelty can be really challenging >> because then the alternative the alternative is though you have to think about what that is and you have to plan for that in your head. I noticed for myself, right? So, if I'm not going to be scrolling, I might just be laying there in my bed, >> right?
>> And what's wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with it.
>> But at first, it can feel a bit uncomfortable. Oh, I should be doing something. Those are the feelings I go through. I should be doing something, right?
>> And you know, >> you're like, what would that be? So, at first it's a little tough. Now, sometimes my mind will start to just imagine or think of things, which is kind of nice, right? Like if it's not negative stuff, it's like my mind it's like daydreaming or something. Used to be something people did a lot daydreaming.
>> But so that can happen or I can read or I can just go to sleep. But there is a little bit of like a uncomfortable moment sometimes where it's like ah I should be doing something >> but I don't I'm not really playing. I don't really mean I should be doing something. I mean I'm usually mean I should just be looking at something on my phone.
>> Can you tolerate the boredom in that moment or do you need to go get a quick fix? If I do I I'm doing meditation pretty regularly now. Good. So I'm having a little bit more tolerate more toleration with it.
>> It's important.
>> Yeah. A little more toleration with it.
>> Like the short form videos, these kind of quick fixes on all these social media is such a distraction. Yeah.
>> Right. And so getting time away from your phone.
>> Oh yeah, that's key.
>> Long form reading, hobbies, creativity, working on projects, I think are so healthy for you.
>> Yeah. I think Yeah. doing things, building a little birdhouse, doing something like that, getting excited about leap year, just doing regular [ __ ] When is leap year, you know? Huh?
>> When is the next leap year?
>> We'll never know, bro, because before you know it, it's gone.
>> That's right.
>> That's how it is.
>> That's right. I missed a lot of leap years over the years.
>> Who hasn't twin? Um, let's look at some of those stats. What did you have, Trevan? I want to get in a little bit of information here.
Um, I want to say this just so people to give a little bit more context to pornography overall. Uh, Pornhub was the fifth most visited website in the world by December 2020. Just if people don't think that we are at war, right? Some people think like, oh, America, we're safe. We're not we're we're at war. Um, Pornhub had about 170 million visits per day and 62 billion visits per year. And that was uh 2020. Um, the amount of content uploaded to Pornhub in a single year would take about 169 years to watch if you played the videos back to back.
Um, and and this was this was some information because there's sometimes you're watching stuff on there where the people in it have not consented to it being put online >> uh some or that it was even recorded and sometimes that it's not um that they haven't consented even uh to the sex in the video. Right. Uh the Broward County, Florida case. This was a case a 15-year-old girl missing for a year was found only after a Pornhub user recognized her and tipped off her mother. Police eventually found her in 58 monetized videos on the site.
>> So just to know how Pornhub is okay with operating. Uh Llaya Mikkelweight who came on here and she's has done a great job with exposing the porn industry um for the negative aspects of it. Uh the London Sunday Times investigation, uh reporters are able to find dozens of illegal videos on the site within minutes, including videos of children as young as three that were on uh on Pornhub.
Um so just to let you know like the kind of stuff that can be happening on there.
Uh oh, nice. So Yla tested that. Uh oh.
At the time, Lyla tested the upload flow to just see how easy it was to just put something up. All it took to upload a video was an email address. There was no ID or age verification, no consent verification required for people in the videos. Huh. Anyone with a smartphone could upload a video in under 10 minutes from anywhere in the world.
So anyway, it just gives a little more context to what we're even watching because sometimes you're looking at something and you don't even really know what it is >> or where it came from >> or where it came from, right? And if you can add some context to it, it makes it a little bit different. You know, so many of those people are been either physically or sexually abused in their childhood, right? Have been trafficked.
This is non sometimes this is non-consent and uh there's just a gross element to a lot of it.
>> There is. And you get try you kind of get tricked in a little I think in a way. You don't maybe realize it. I don't know. Especially if you're if you're kind of susceptible. Um oh yeah, this right here. I remember this. Visa and Mastercard suspend payments for ad purchases on Pornhub and MineGeek amid controversy. Um Visa and Mastercard said Thursday card payments for advertising on Pornhub and its parent company MindGeek would be suspended after a lawsuit stoked controversy over whether the payment giants could be facil facilitating child pornography.
Uh Visa condemns sex trafficking, sexual exploitation and child sexual abuse. It is illegal and Visa does not permit the use of our network for illegal activity because Visa was was being accepted on these websites.
>> So, it's kind of crazy. It's like, okay, so you're saying that if this is happening on these websites, then you're okay with your >> kind of complicit, >> right? You're kind of complicit. Give me an update on that if you can. And who owns MindGeek changed to Alo? I remember that Ay Lo. Who owns that company?
Ethical Capital Partners.
>> Of course they do. Of course they do.
>> Unbelievable. Parent organization is Ethical Capital Partners. Key ECP leadership is Fi Mansour, a managing partner. Roco Mill and Solomon Freriedman.
Um through its parent company, ECP owns some of the most highly trafficked digital networks in the adult entertainment industry, including Pornhub, Red Tube, Uporn Browers, and Men.com. Find photos of those guys if you can just so we can put the faces with uh just who they are. And that's all according to what site?
>> Wikipedia.
>> Okay, that's all Google and Wikipedia.
So, um yeah, give me pictures of those three guys. Let's put them up just so people know who is who feels like it's okay, you know. And mo I do want to say most recently I saw there was a there was an artic there was a story I saw where um one of the financial companies failed to stop a payment for was it only fans. It was something that was Mastercard Visa failed to stop payments on only fans for child sex abuse content says a whistleblower.
Let me see. Mastercard and Visa fa to stop their payment networks from laundering proceeds from child sex abuse material and sex trafficking on the popular website only fans according to allegations in a previously undisclosed whistleblower whistleblower compliant complaint filled with the US Treasury's financial crimes unit. Um the complaint was filed in January 2023. The complaint said the whistleblower and other anti-trafficking experts, including US federal agents, alerted Visa and Mastercard to unlawful content on Only Fans in a series of calls in 2021 and 2022. The federal agents corroborated the presence of child sexual abuse material on Only Fans. The complaint said it also drew heavily on a 2022 study by an anti-trafficking group that said it had found a high volume of Only Fans accounts with common indicators of child sexual abuse material or sex trafficking. The whistleblower said he helped with the study which was shared with the card companies.
Um, in the interview, the whistleblower said the agencies never contacted him to discuss his complaint. The card companies had the power to turn off the switch to stop elicit material from being monetized.
So, there's just, you know, it goes to that place. I guess there's like a there's a business element to it.
A Visa spokesperson said financial institutions and merchants that don't comply with Visa's robust compliance requirements will be terminated from its network. The company uses best-in-class controls to deter, detect, and remediate illegal activity. If there's anything else I should in there, let me know. Um, since the whistleblower complaint was filed, Ruters uncovered more allegations of child sexual abuse and sex trafficking on Only Fans, a porn- driven site that generates money through subscriptions and pay-per-view content.
Huh.
I mean, those companies also so big. I bet it's so hard to police everything.
>> Sure.
>> And that was just a complaint, Trevan.
>> That's right. Not a ruling. Um, but it was officially filed. It's on the record.
>> Okay, got it. Okay, thank you so much.
Um, tell me a little bit about um Valor Recovery and this this episode was not intended at all to be an ad for your company or anything like that, but um you know, this is just such a thing and you're the guy that I know and we've been friends for so long. Um, but tell me about Valor and thank you for starting it.
>> Yeah, thank you. Uh, Valor Recovery is a company I founded many years ago now that helps men that are struggling with pornography abuse and sexual compulsivity.
Uh, it's a virtual program. You know, what we have found over the years is so many men struggle getting help for this, finding the right type of help. um using community- based resources are challenging because of shame and stigma.
>> Like what do you mean by that? Like going to a meeting locally?
>> Going to a meeting locally um going to a program locally. People are just uh they're so concerned given the nature of this and they don't take advantage of those resources. So creating a virtual program that can be accessible with a click of a button, right, is amazing, right? and offering something that's more discreet just helps guys feel more comfortable getting help and so virtual program it's a coaching program and the thing that's really unique about that what we have found is so many men uh benefit from coaching on this topic different than therapy therapy is very valuable as well but coaching is around accountability setting goals learning new skills and practice practicing those skills so you think and feel differently about yourself over time.
>> Got it. Yeah. You have to put something on the other side of the scale. That's one thing I've learned in recovery. I'm not saying I do it all the time, >> but you you you can't just you have you have to put something on the other side of the scale that has valuable weight to it.
>> I think that's right. And so, you know, the program is unique. One of the unique aspects around it, everyone that works at Valor Recovery is in long-term sexual recovery. So they these are men that have 10 years, 20 years, in several cases 30 years of sexual sobriety. Why is that important? It's just the shared life experience puts us in a very unique position to help people to understand people because we've been there. We are you. So collectively, this team has helped thousands of people over their lifetimes deal with these challenges, right? So that's really important. Uh it's a program that really uh is set up with small intimate groups so that men learn to be part of a community. Men learn to how to connect with each other.
You know, the opposite of addiction is often not recovery. It's often said to be connection.
>> And so we're a program that offers small group settings, process groups. There's curriculum around, you know, how to deal with urges and triggers, identify root causes that are driving compulsions. you curriculum around healthy intimacy, healthy sexuality, and healthy masculinity.
>> Amen.
>> And so, we've had a lot of men come to this program and get better. Something we take a lot of pride in. Now, it's not easy work. I can promise you that it's not easy work, but we take a lot of pride in helping men become the men God intended them to be. and and whatever that word God means to you, higher self, whatever that is, we help men and put them in alignment with their higher self so they can go on and do good things in their lives.
>> Are there guys or women out there >> who may not have a problem specifically with porn, >> but is there other things they could be having a problem with? Yeah. I think what what you're what you're asking me is if the can people be suffering from other behaviors other than pornography >> that could be having the same outcome for them.
>> That's correct. Yeah, that's what I'm asking.
>> You know, is it relationship compulsivity, infidelity in relationships, prostitution? I mean, there's just a host of behaviors that can manifest itself uh that are just really unhealthy for people. And so, man or woman, doesn't necessarily have to be pornography. Um, and so the answer is yes. And there are just a lot of great resources out there for both men and women to deal with these issues. Whether it's working with a therapist that may be trained in sexual compulsivity or sex addiction. There are great 12step programs out there, different fellowships for men and women. Sex Addicts Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexaholics Anonymous. uh that men and women that are community-based 12step based programs that could be really valuable. They're great.
>> Adult children of alcoholics. Sorry to interrupt you. I just don't want to forget.
>> There's a lot of important Yeah. People don't realize that there's things out there that it's like you might be like, "Well, I'm not this. I don't have this."
But maybe my parent did and you lived in the shadows of it or you lived as a recipient of the byproducts of it. Um there's recovery stuff for that. And we're not saying everybody needs recovery, but we're saying that this some of this stuff is a big issue that's facing people. And we both struggle with it. So [ __ ] other people might.
>> And that's right. And I think the one thing you can listen to, this is not a life sentence, not a death sentence, man. You can get better >> for sure.
>> You can absolutely get better. And you can live that life that you've dreamed of. It's going to take work, but there are great people out there to help you.
>> Yes.
>> And so if you're struggling, I mean, have the courage to reach out and get some help.
>> Yeah. And we'll put links to like uh Valor. We'll put links to um um sex and love addiction um intimacy disorder anonymous. Just we'll put a link to to some of those things in this so people can check it out. There's like some online like um Zoom sex addiction meetings that you can go to. Can I share that out publicly?
>> Yeah, there's those meetings you can go to. You can just sit with your camera off and just listen and and see what it's like. See how uh people are sharing and see what's going on. Um yeah, I just want to know that that stuff's out there. I think sometimes people don't even know that it's out there. I didn't know it existed, >> you know, until you get into certain places and you're like, you know, I was realizing I was just having such a tough time in relationships and a relationship with myself.
>> Mhm.
>> It was like it was so hard for me to get to know myself without like um I always felt like I had to just prove who I was even to me.
>> Like almost every day it was like Yeah. It was like if I didn't I had to do something to show you who I was.
>> I couldn't just be >> right.
Um I've had like that love what's that called? Love attraction, love avoidance.
What is it?
>> Love avoiding.
>> But what is it when you It's like come here or go away or whatever that thing.
>> Not sure.
>> It's like come here or go away. I whatever that [ __ ] was, bro.
>> Sounds awful.
>> Yeah. Oh, but it was it it was a lot of my relationships.
>> Yeah.
>> It was like hey, I need you over here. I want to be with you. But then the second somebody got close, I could I was like, >> "That's right." And for a lot of guys, there's sexual anorexia.
>> What is that?
>> I mean, they're just a complete avoidance of all sex.
>> Oh, I thought you're starving, so you have sex or whatever.
>> A good hamburger. No. No.
>> That's how that American pie scene came to be. Sexual anorexia is a term coined in 1975 by psychologist Nathan Hair to describe a fear or deep aversion to sexual activity. It is considered a loss of appetite for sexual contact conduct and may result in a fear of intimacy may result in a fear of intimacy or an aversion to any type of sexual interaction.
And the compulsive nonsex is an addiction of it itself, right? And so you just think about like you know what we are striving for, right? Is a version of healthy sexuality that works for you.
>> Yeah.
>> You know so many guys get into recovery and then that's it. I've stopped these behaviors and they can go for a while but they're kind of unhappy and miserable. So unless you kind of lean in and challenge yourself to date companionship, connection, healthy sex, that's what recovery is about. That's how you put these behaviors in the rearview memory and never look back.
>> You have to replace it with something that brings you more joy and purpose.
>> Amen.
>> Yeah. And a lot of times that will happen because you're uh the way the program's set up, it's like you interact with more people, you say yes to more things. It's like, you know, so it's like it can >> it's easier to say yes when you're not full of shame.
>> Oh, for sure.
>> When you're feeling better about yourself because you're not putting that junk in your system with consistency, you know, it just gives you uh your ability to show up as the best version of yourself kind of happens over time.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's a learning process, man. Yeah. And and the thing is the program is always there. So if you if if something happens or something, you know what I'm saying? If you have a setback or whatever is going on, it's always there. It's there. It's like unconditional.
>> Mhm.
>> That's pretty cool.
>> It is great.
>> That's like that. Oh, here's a summary of how stories come here, go away. The dynamics of fearful attachment.
>> Wow.
>> I think this is what I had.
>> Uh past tense.
>> Fearful attachment. Yeah, I don't think I have this anymore.
>> Nice. which is it's kind of crazy. It's like now I feel like I used to never think I would Dude, it's so funny. When I was a kid, this is true. And when I was even a teen and young adult, I didn't understand how people could be married. It didn't even make sense to me.
>> Yeah.
>> At a level of like human affection.
>> Like I don't even understand. I remember I'd go watch people's families eat dinner and should I go sit in like watch Peep and Tommen or whatever, right? cuz it was it was like a form. I didn't even understand it.
>> Well, what was modeled to you in your childhood home?
>> Now you understand it.
>> Nothing.
>> There it is.
>> I mean, nothing. In fact, the opposite.
So, like >> the opposite of nothing.
>> Yes.
>> Less than nothing.
>> Less than nothing, dude. Some weird integer.
But, dude, I ke But and at the time, I didn't even know what I was I didn't even know what I was doing. But I was just so like it was like it was like watching somebody find something I don't know see something foreign.
>> And then uh and then slowly over time it made sense to me. And then there was like times where I like I remember the first time that I thought I wanted to have a family.
>> Bro, it blew my mind. I'd never felt that in my life. You know, >> I cannot wait till you get married and have a kid.
Yeah, we got to get it out there, boy.
>> I cannot wait. You're going to just a You're going to be You have a heart as big as any person I know.
>> Thanks, bro.
>> And the more that you get comfortable showing that side of you to a woman and build a life right now with that person, my goodness, >> going to be incredible to be part of.
>> Yeah. We're going to have to get a camper, dude. Hit the road.
>> That's it.
>> Yeah. Take that love on the road, brother. But no, I feel you, man. Thank you, bro.
>> Yeah. Like, man, my first instinct is to kind of joke sometimes when things get serious or something. And I used to be that way all the time. Now I'm not that way. You know, there's times where I can be in some of those spaces. But dude, I remember the first time I thought, man, I would like that.
>> Yeah, >> it blew my mind.
>> But it's all because of just things I've learned in meetings over time, you know, things that there's that there's a different way, right? Um, yeah. What would you say to somebody out there who's thinking, I think this is me, right? We're talking about porn addiction or some of this in ineimacy stuff. Yeah. What what can they do to start getting some help?
>> Yeah, there there are lots of great resources out there.
>> And we'll put Valor, too.
>> Valor Recovery is a great resource out there. Uh happy to talk to anybody listening here to see if there's a way we can help you. Uh happy to refer you to other programs as well if you need a higher level of care. Right? There are great therapists out there. There's great 12step communities out there. I think anybody that listening to this, the one thing I hope is that you have the courage to reach out and ask for help.
>> Amen, bro.
>> That's it, dude. And I want to say this.
I want to say thank you. There was like I have received message from so many guys that said I called and I talked to Steve. I like he like you know a lot of places that's not the thing.
>> No, I promise you early on. I promise I made a promise to you that I was going to handle your people that call me your podcast myself personally.
>> Yeah.
>> And I did.
>> I appreciate that.
>> I didn't. It was important. And I, you know, it was uh it was the rewarding. I learned so much about how these men are hurting and struggling and uh I also learned so much on how important your voice is in these men's lives. And so keep doing what you're doing, brother.
Well, thanks, man. Yeah, I Yeah, we're just learning as we go, you know, and we don't have to do it alone.
>> No.
>> So, I haven't had to do it alone with this show. This show helped me not be alone. This show gave me something to do. Like, >> you know, there were times I probably would have been using or doing things that I, you know, like there's times it hasn't saved me from that, but there's been so many times where it has, >> you know, where it gave me like some sense of like value or uh purpose.
>> Yeah. Even >> your voice matters, man.
>> And sometimes not even my voice, just listening. Just being somebody like I learn that sometimes. Sometimes I still make mistakes on it, but let me just listen so other people can listen.
>> Yeah. Beautiful.
>> You know, and I don't mean that in any egotistical way. I just feel like it's just been like Yeah. I think when I was little, I just wanted to have a voice. Like I just like I wanted like Yeah. I was just I think when I was really young I was in so much pain and just nobody could hear me, >> you know, and I didn't even know what was wrong.
>> I just knew that it hurt. And then yeah, you get to like uh and that's all I wanted. And God helped me have that, you know, and so it's been like it's not by accident you're here.
>> Yeah. We all have this belief like some reason like going it should have looked differently. It should be different than it than it was. And the truth is it all happened exactly the way it had to happen to be here right now. Right? I look back at my history and like, oh my god, like that should have looked all the money that I wasted on drugs or crazy behaviors. Well, if I had $1 more, maybe I would have bought that line of coke that had fentinyl. If I had $1 more, perhaps I don't meet my wife, have my son, or start valor recovery. So, who am I to go back and say that should have looked differently?
>> Everything I went through, I had to go through to be here right now. The only way to put purpose to your pain is to have lived through that pain.
I think that's what you just shared.
>> Thanks, man. Yeah. Amen. I'm glad you did, bro. I'm glad you stayed the course. Yeah, me too.
>> Yeah, I really am, man. I super am. Mike Tyson said that same thing, man. When I talked to him, he just said, "Man, I wouldn't trade any of it."
>> As painful as parts of it were, as disgraceful as parts of it were, you know, I had to go through all of it to be the man I am today.
>> Yeah. It's kind of cra I mean, it's Yeah. I mean, it's unbelievable, really.
>> It's kind of crazy.
>> Yes.
>> It's kind of crazy. You had to go through everything you I know a lot about your child. I know a lot about your life, right? It it prepared you for this moment.
So, it's crazy to go back and think, "Oh, it should have looked differently."
That's a good point, huh?
Wow. I think sometimes it's tough to Yeah, you're so right. And sometimes I still will think that.
I don't know if I still will think that, but I still will suffer some of like there's still like some old pain that flares up.
>> Me, too. Me too.
>> And people sometimes will be like, "You have to get over. You have to get rid of that. And it's like you can, but sometimes it's it's still a real thing.
It's like >> just because you forgive and you move on doesn't mean that there's sometimes still not some [ __ ] that hurts.
>> That's right. And both things can be true. You could be living a good life and still be hurting at times from your past.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not either or. It's Yes. And >> yeah, I agree with you, man.
>> There's this idea in recovery that, you know, everything is rainbows and unicorns. Well, that's not life.
>> That's not life.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. Part of life is discomfort. Part of life is being uncomfortable.
>> Yeah. They And I wish they kind of would have told us that.
>> Would you have joined if that was the selling point?
>> That's a good point though. If you if they would have told it's such >> Here's the dude. You're not really going to feel that much better about yourself, but come on in. Try this. I'm not sure that's a good selling point.
>> Yeah, dude. They just show you your future and it's just you like you're just crying behind a Wind Dixie in your in your truck. energy and you got to do a better way selling me on this recovery thing than that.
>> Dude, that's so true, bro.
Um, we had some calls, man. These are calls. We have a hotline here. Uh, 9856649503.
That's hotline. We're coming up on 10 years, I think, we've had this podcast.
When did this podcast start?
>> December >> of 2016.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Incredible.
>> That's crazy, man.
>> Incredible. In your place in LA.
>> Yeah.
>> Incredible.
>> In my kitchen over there in Westwood. We put those curtains up. Shout out to my ex-girlfriend Megan who would put up with me and when I would, you know, it'd be like our one night of the week to spend together and I would, you know, I would spend it doing this.
>> Yeah.
>> And then like get in a bed like, you know, just, you know, >> she was such a nice person.
>> I know. She's the best.
>> Yeah.
>> She's the best.
>> Um, let's play a couple calls that have come in on the hotline. And uh this this may sound weird because it's like we're like one of those call-in shows where we're like experts. We're not experts. We don't know anything. We're just two guys who are surviving and doing our best.
Steve's doing better than me. Um but let's play some of those calls if we can, please. Steve, if you'll sit here.
>> Sure.
>> Thanks, man.
>> Hey, Theo. This is Siege from uh New Mexico and I just want to tell you man, you've been help you've been a great help and not going to lie, I'm kind of drunk right now. It's like 12, you know, it's afternoon. It's about 1:10 or whatever.
>> What?
>> But I just want to seek your advice on some [ __ ] Uh, you know, I've been a addicted to porn and masturbation my entire life. And that led me to being addicted to alcohol >> and a way to coat maybe, I don't know, but uh, you know, I was texting these Filipino ladies on some [ __ ] app and uh, it turned into me sending them money and they sent me nudes and then it turns out it was all a scam. Obviously, I should have known that and I did know it before I even went into it. But, uh, I don't even know if I'm addicted. I've been on a seven month seven month bender. I think I've only missed four days of, uh, drinking alcohol within the last seven months.
>> Hey, Siege, thanks for the call, man.
Um, yeah, I just appreciate you sharing so honestly. Um, Steve, what do you think is like, can addictions jump from one to the next? What have you noticed about that? That's kind of the thing that I'm taking away from just listening to this. And thank you, Siege, bro. And just thanks for being honest. And um I think I'm going to let Steve kind of share some of his insights here.
>> I I you see that with frequency, just the relationship between alcohol and drugs and compulsive porn use. And so making recovery difficult, you know, that was the case for me, but I had history of porn abuse, but also challenges with cocaine and alcohol and um hard. Really hard.
>> Yeah. Because it'll be one you one can cause the other.
>> Chicken or the egg.
>> Yeah.
>> Chicken or the egg. And how many guys kind of uh because they're hung over turn to porn to try to feel better? How many guys kind of make a bad decision like he did reaching out giving money to this scam because he's under the influence of alcohol or drugs? It's just really hard. And one of the things he highlighted these scams, how often we hear guys kind of being blackmailed because they got caught up reaching out to people. There's photos, there's information. It's dark stuff. It's really dark stuff. So, sounds like this person could really benefit, you know, getting help. And here's the truth, you know, um sometimes it's hard to address all this at once, right? And so, maybe you you pick one and maybe you start with alcohol and say, "Okay, I'm having I'm having some issues with alcohol.
What can I do to get help?" I mean, I'm a huge fan, as are you, Alcoholics Anonymous.
>> Great resource right there. Often times you see guys kind of porn use spike in early recovery coming off alcohol because it's just a way to numb.
>> Oh yeah. I've had issues where it's like I don't want to uh engage in certain behaviors. So I'll even masturbate to keep myself away from those behaviors.
>> It's like sometimes you're, you know, you're cutting off a chicken to save the horse or whatever it's called.
>> I like to think of it as harm reduction.
>> Yeah, harm reduction. That's what I'm saying.
>> Nothing wrong with that.
>> Yeah, >> nothing wrong with that. Especially, you know, often times even with sexual recovery, sometimes you get sober off more detrimental behaviors first. You know, if a guy has issues with uh a married guy and you're dealing with things that might end the marriage, infidelity, strip clubs, or a host of those behaviors, you know, getting sober off those first can be critically important. And then over time, exploring your relationship with porn and masturbation. oftentimes porn of masturbation can be a harm reduction tool not to engage in more harmful behaviors.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's all a process. And the good thing is even if you just go to AA bro, you go to a 12step, you start learning about this. You start getting into the world of it, you know, or if you go to like a SLAA Zoom >> or if you call and talk to someone that works over at Valor, it's like, you know, you just start to get into the world of realizing that there's some hope for whatever is going on. Well, this guy, you're not alone.
>> Yeah, that's >> You're not alone, man. You're not alone.
I'm looking at two guys right here.
You're not alone.
>> You're not.
>> I know, man. You're not alone. And anything is possible.
>> That's right.
>> You know, anything is still possible.
>> But I'm going to quote one line that I hear you say, you say all the time.
Nothing changes.
>> If nothing changes, >> nothing changes.
>> Yeah. And guess what? I learned that in the rooms.
>> That's right. So, whatever, do something. Don't do nothing.
>> Yeah, >> I can guarantee the one way nothing will improve is doing nothing.
>> Yeah, that's for sure.
>> I mean, this ain't rocket science.
>> Oh, dude, I've walked into some meeting rooms and be five like and then 10 years later walked in again.
>> That's right.
>> Walked in and said, "Man, I think I need this, but I'm not sure." 10 years later, I'm back. Five years later, I'm back.
You hear that all the time of guys like, I knew 15 years ago there was something wrong, >> but I didn't I didn't step all the way in.
>> It's okay.
>> Yeah, it's okay. here now.
>> It takes what it takes. That's what they say, too.
>> That's right.
>> It takes what it takes.
>> Um, let's take another call. Thank you, Siege, bro.
>> Hey, Theo. This is Ashley.
Um, I just wanted to call, I guess, and get some advice about my relationship.
My boyfriend of almost two years now um struggles a lot with lust and not >> lust >> being able to control himself when it comes to looking at porn or only fans and things like that. and I love him so much and I just wanted to get your advice on if you think men can change.
>> That's a nice that's thoughtful of her to call.
>> What came up for you when you heard that?
>> Uh just I thought it was nice how much she cares.
>> That she chose to call. First of all, I believe her. Mh.
>> Sometimes you get a lot of calls you say, you know, I don't know this person's realistic or not, but I just for to me I felt like she was genuine about it. Um, and it was kind of and and can people change? She didn't really make it about her, >> you know. And she said about lust, like she understands the bigger picture of it. So, it's obvious that she's put some attention towards it to maybe even look go search and look online, see see some ideas or read up on it or something cuz it's not just like, hey, this guy's watching porn. It's like he has a problem with lust.
>> And it's fascinating to think about lust. What do you think? Like when she says that, like what do you kind of think, Steve? Like what is that about?
Like >> the first thing I felt was she was sharing I felt the first thing I felt was a little sadness.
>> Oh, yeah. I did feel some sadness for her. I know she's going through a tough time. And thank you Ashley for calling.
Sorry, I should I should have said that first. thinking about her her boyfriend uh the behaviors that she actually knows that he's engaging in um are leading him down just a a dark path and and so first thing I was thinking about is wow um I hope she has the ability to take care of herself. M >> you know often times uh you know we we focus so much on trying to get the significant other some help which is important directing him to really good resources out there if he wants to get better. Does he recognize this as a problem? And if he does you know get him some help there because guys can get better and your relationship uh can thrive at some point in time in the future as he does the work and hopefully you guys get to do the work together and grow closer together. doesn't always work that way, but there are some countless amazing stories where couples kind of do the work and their relationship gets better than it ever was before.
>> That's the truth.
>> That's the truth. That's the truth.
Sometimes it doesn't work out that way.
But my as she was sharing, I just hope she's got a a place to go, a person to talk to, perhaps a therapist that she can just share, find ways to take care of herself in the process right now. Um >> Yeah.
>> And she stays on this journey.
>> Yeah. And you know what? Sometimes it's like the first time you have a real intimate conversation with somebody.
>> You know, I was at a meeting the other day and my friends and I were talking and they were saying after like, "Dude, we never even really talk like this."
>> You know, and I was like, "Fuck." Aa like recovery gave me the I've been waiting my whole life to talk about something that meant something.
>> It gave me like the language too. Like think about growing up where like the kind of man rules, right? Men don't cry.
Men are tough, right? If you're sensitive, you are a fill in the blank.
And and so all of a sudden, >> if you see a Ford Festiva, you got to yell down the street.
>> Something like that. Yeah. And so not a Mustang. And it's not a mustang.
>> It's not a mustang. And so, you know, so for so many men, right? You know, where did we learn how to be vulnerable? Where is it a safe place to be vulnerable, to be sensitive?
>> Yeah.
>> The truth of the matter is I'm a very sensitive guy.
>> A lot of men in recovery or dealing addiction are very sensitive men. And for so much of my life, I tried to hide >> that part of me thinking it was a weakness.
>> Yeah.
>> And I used drugs. I acted out in certain ways to numb the pain of that sensitivity. I can tell you right now, my sensitivity today is a superpower.
>> Amen.
>> Because it allows me to have empathy and to feel your experiences and pain given where I've been with this.
>> Facts, dude.
Yeah, man. Facts, bro. And you have the best stories, too, dude. We didn't really tell any of them today.
>> Thank God because you'd probably have to filter them out.
>> You have the best stories, dude. Yeah.
Yeah. And we can even we can take this out, but you have one story I remember about partying so hard in Miami that you and a friend went instead of like you guys bought more drugs and more diapers out on the dance floor so you didn't have to Yeah. Well, we bought dope. It was obviously laced with a laxative and we had a choice. We had a choice to either throw the drugs out or make these kind of makeshift diapers and keep the party going.
Needless to say, you know how that rest of the story goes.
>> Yeah, brother.
Just so you guys know, Steve is a real one. The Steve is a And that's just that is the tip of the EOG, my dude. That's the tip of the iceberg. Steve's a real one. Um >> Oh, and what else? She She was asking about something else, though. Oh, she was asking, >> oh, do you does she think it's possible for him to get better? Right. Did you Did we answer all that? I I I am such a believer in the power of recovery.
>> Yeah, for sure. Yeah, no doubt. This this whole episode I think could could maybe be beneficial to him. If you want to share with him, you can tell him like it's a just say, "Hey, man, my wanted you to listen to this." Um if you want I don't know if I know him or not or if I've ever met him. You know, you meet a lot of people, but um uh so yeah, just say, "Hey, man. Hey, this is something your girlfriend wanted you to listen to.
I've had issues with it. So, if you feel okay listening to it, then check it out.
So, you can send him that little clip right there and that can go along with this episode if you want. Um, and then Oh, lust. She talked about lust.
>> Lust kind of gets hijacked or something, doesn't it? We don't talk about lust too much, do we?
>> Yeah. You know, it's >> Does it matter? Is it just a word?
>> It's just a word. But I'll tell you what's what it's interesting. How many guys come to me and like, "Steve, you don't understand. I think I'm just so horny."
Maybe.
But what's probably closer to the truth is you're actually just really uncomfortable and you've sexualized that discomfort.
>> Oh yeah. If every time you get uncomfortable, you end up jerking off looking at pornography. Then we when you get uncomfortable like, "Oh, I'm horny."
It's like, "No, you're not."
>> Connect the two in your brain. And so, you know, and what happens when guys get into recovery and get some time, you know, they stabilize and they realize that they're not as horny as they think.
>> Yeah.
>> Because you're no longer using as a tool to deal with your emotions, >> right, dude. They hijacked us, bro. The devil hijacked a lot of us, bro. You got to give props to the devil in a weird way because >> he check on this one. They they just, you know, >> Yeah. They win this round. They They won this round. They won this round. They won this round.
>> Hey, what's going on, Phil? My name is Donald. Um, so I have a situation. My I have a girlfriend. She's a long distance type [ __ ] >> Yeah. We've been together for three years, but for the first year and a half, I would just I would just, you know, lay that seaman around type [ __ ] Yeah. I was a big infidel.
Just cheat on her. Oh, stop. Um, I told her a couple times, you know, I uh that made me feel a bit proud of myself. But, um, but yeah, lately, you know, it's been it's been a while and I just been jerking off, to be honest.
Um, just been jerking off a couple times a day, honestly.
>> So, not really sure what your uh thoughts are on that. I mean, it's better than cheating, but you know, I'm I'm struggling out here.
Uh, >> yeah, I've been watching mom porn. Um, that thing. Yeah.
>> Okay.
Yeah, dude. I think we've kind of we've talked about some of this. Thanks for calling, bro. Donovan or Jonathan? Um, >> do Donald.
>> Donald. Okay. Thanks for calling Donald.
I didn't know people saw the name Donald, but I'm glad they do. I'm glad they do, bro. And bring it back. Bod, bro. What I'm saying is this, dude, is um yeah, sorry. This whole this this whole segment to me just it feels like it's very foreign. It feels like here's the energy I don't like and this isn't the real energy of it that we know something you don't, right? Like we're just two guys who [ __ ] trying our best here.
Um but we have shown up a lot to places to try our best.
>> So I'll give us a lot of credit with that. And Steve has done a great job of like transforming his whole life. Um, yeah, dude. I just know if you do that, it just weakens the spirit. So, something's uncomfortable in you, >> something's uncomfortable in your spirit, >> right? And you're only going to get clues from it. Probably if you stop masturbating and stuff, you'll start to get some clues. But the tough part is, and this has been tough for me, the clues get scary. And it sometimes it's it's hard to handle. You don't know something's ah, you know, sometimes you just want to scream, but sometimes it's like primal stuff. You don't know what's going on. And so you just you sedate yourself with like pornography or masturbations to keep yourself at bay.
But um but it can be different, right, Steve?
>> Yeah. What I took from the call was uh this kind of idea like you can't really do this alone.
>> Uh yeah, cuz this this dude sounds like he's pretty capable of getting stuff done.
>> That's right. You insightful, he's honest, but he's running the show, >> right? And so, you know, I I would strongly suggest to get some help. You know, willpower will only get you so far. Yeah.
>> Right. Get in some time to understand what's driving these behaviors.
>> Get to the root cause of some of these challenges. Get some professional help, great resources. Get involved in the community, a men's group where you can kind of have some a band of brothers where you can kind of run stuff by and talk through these things. Tough to do this by yourself. Yeah. What happens is it'll be 10 years from now and you'll still be struggling with this stuff and you'll just lose time. That's bro, that is the truest thing. If you relate to some of this stuff, if you relate to it at a pretty strong level where you like I think I had it, it does not just go away.
>> No, >> I cannot. There's nothing that's been that's the most honest thing I could ever tell you in my whole life. It does not just go away.
>> When I started this process, I had a head of hair like you. And now look at this thing right now. Yeah. You just lose time. You lose hair.
>> You look great, man. And bro, you've done a great job today, too, dude.
>> Yeah. Thank you. It's been a pleasure being here.
>> Thank you, bro. Thank you so much, just for being here, for talking about this, man. Some stuff it's like I don't know.
I just has been so much more comfortable than I thought it would be. And I don't even know why I didn't think it would be, you know. Um, all right. Let's see.
Let's have one more call that came in, please.
Hey, Theo is uh Cody from Florida.
And uh I I I've seen you're really big on porn addictions. And that's kind of a weird topic to get personal about, if you know what I mean. Very awkward topic, but I feel like I feel like I just lost the love of my life because of it. M >> I I can't control myself. I I can't I feel like because of my generation, cuz I I'm I'm 19, man. I'm >> I just I feel like it's so normalized. It's so routined.
It's so normal for me to feel normalized about doing this [ __ ] And I just lost the best thing that's ever happened to me. She broke up with me, man.
>> This a [ __ ] This is a Gooner national anthem right here.
>> She left me. And I I can't believe it, bro. Can't stop thinking about her. I can't stop dreaming about her. I can't >> I can't get past the memories that we had because of my actions my actions my actions made me lose it, bro. And I just I just wanted to see if I could get some advice from you.
>> Yeah, dude. Thanks for calling in about it, bro. And uh yeah, sorry I was kind of joking around, dude. But it's real and it's And if you really have this porn addiction, if you've related to it enough, you where you kind of call, you heard it and thought about it and called, then it must have some relative.
There must be something inside of you that's connecting with it, right? if you've even just heard me talk about it before, cuz today is the most we ever even talked about it ever. So, if you're picking up on something from the from before, uh it it won't get better. You have to have you got to help it get better, right?
So, you got to show up for it and help it get better. And it will get better.
And as far as yeah, you might have lost your girl this situation for now, but you I I believe you get second chances and I believe that you won't miss out on the next good one and you will be so grateful down the line that uh you started to solve the solve some of the issues uh now than waited.
That's what I think man from my own experience.
Steve, what do you what do you think? I think um everywhere I go there I am.
Meaning that um >> you know that's just the reality. If I could date that woman without me probably be a great experience but I bring me to that relationship. So, I think pain is the cornerstone of spiritual growth. And what happened happened sounds like awful, tragic, horrible. But I'll tell you what, what would be really tragic if you didn't use this moment in time to get the help you need. Leverage the pain you're in right now to get the help you need.
Really important, right? The gift of desperation. Don't let this go by and pass and like, "Oh, maybe it wasn't that bad."
Use the pain you're in as leverage to get help.
>> Amen. That's the truth, bro. That's Dude, that's cool, dude. Yeah. Yeah, bro. The gift of desperation.
>> We both lived it.
>> But yeah, thanks, Cody, for calling in.
Um, did we get those three guys, guys, by chance?
If we have accurate shot, here we go.
Right here, these are the ethical capital partners.
This couple of guys right here, there's the managing partner, Fi Mansour.
Uh, Rocco Melamro and he's definitely been gooning.
And Solomon Freriedman had a feeling he was involved. Uh, there he is right there. He's the partner VP compliance. I love how compliance is part of it.
>> I mean, what what do you do working at a porn company for compliance?
>> Yeah, >> I'm curious.
>> I don't know, dude. I do not know. So, they're that's them right there. ethical capital partners. So, we want to thank those guys for um being basically they are uh those are your porn sackler family right there.
That's what I alleged. That's what I call them. That's just my thoughts.
Those are the sacklers of pornography right there. Those good people. Fatty Mansour, Rockco Melamro, and Solomon Freriedman. Um thank you guys for your service. Uh Steve Walt, man, thank you for your service, dude. Today is a service call.
>> That's what they say in recovery rooms.
If like you, you know, you make a service call on people, you do something uh to be helpful to the group or to someone.
>> So, >> what a treat to be here. Thank you, >> dude. What a long journey, huh?
>> Yeah. It's only just started.
>> That's the craziest part, bro. And that's the best attitude to have.
Congratulations, man, on starting a family, on making something real out of something that was just like, do you look back sometimes and you're like, I cannot even believe it.
>> I really do. And I just talked to my wife last night in anticipation of this.
And I was like, I can't believe I'm here.
Really unfathomable.
And how'd I get here? Just one day at a time, one step at a time, taking better making better decisions.
>> Yeah. Anybody can do it, huh?
>> 100%.
>> You believe that?
>> I really do.
>> Yeah. Doesn't matter if you have money or don't money. If you're in a wheelchair, if you can't see far, it doesn't matter.
>> No, anybody can do it as long as you don't quit before the miracle happens.
>> Amen.
>> Steve, bro, I love you, bro. Thank you for being a part of my life, bro. Thank you for letting me be a part of your life. Um, you showed up for my comedy show when I came out to Bend, Oregon. We had so much fun.
>> That was awesome.
>> That was cool, dude.
>> That was awesome. And uh and you've just been such a light over the years, dude.
We know so many friends. Most of like the most important people in my life. Uh you know him.
>> That's right. Best friends in the world that have friends in recovery.
>> Oh, dude. Nothing.
>> No.
>> Nothing better.
>> No. Amazing human beings. Crazy as can be. They could be decades sober. Off their rockers. Incredible and beautiful.
>> Yeah. Oh, the good that the good times do not end, bro.
>> No, they don't. You finally, you always want to know who's got the best story in the room, dude. You finally get to meet all of those people.
>> That's right. That's right. It's good stuff.
>> Steve, Valor Recovery, you guys can check out his his program. Um, if anything you feel like you can relate to. Uh, Steve, I love you, bro. Thank you, bro.
>> Thank you. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves. I must be corner stone.
Oh, but when I reach that ground, I'll share this piece of mind I found. I can feel it in my bones.
But it's going to take
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