Bite Me 7-20-26

[00:00:01]All right, we are on the Bite Me podcast here. And listen guys, uh big big show.

[00:00:07]Our cup runth over with topics and insight. And it must be a big show because Captain Dean is wearing a collared shirt which only happens when we have company and we will have company. That's going to be one Isabelle Tiller who you've heard on this show before uh in terms of and she was kneedeep in her uh research on tarpon and snook and other things. And we're going to get her on here in just a minute. Man, we got to, you know, we we got to get started on some of these things. There's a lot happening. I mean, I always fill this old rundown sheet and uh I didn't even put some stuff on this week. Um let's get with the one that is really creating a lot of buzz because uh you know, we talk about we're barely more actually, yeah, barely more than a month away from the Bite Me uh podcast, Feeding Frenzy. And I highly recommend everybody goes to see some absolutely incredible uh incredible uh donations uh and such for Heroes on the Water and Texas Boys Outdoors. Of course, those are the beneficiaries.

[00:01:06]And got to mention, you know, the one that is kind of creating buzz right here, but you know, sponsors like Slick Water Manufacturing, OnPoint Roofing, The Boatyard, Freedom Boats, Gabrielas, Master Hitch, CCA Texas, they came in. I don't think I mentioned this one last week. Lifetime Star Tournament membership with a custom rod, custom reel, all kinds of stuff. Um, Big Tree Realy, Belleville Meat Market, Jansen Adjusters, Sparkling Clear Industries. I don't want to just run through them, but sometimes, uh, you know, you got to for the sake of the start of the show, but go see all our friends, man. take care of our friends that are taking care of us and are going to make this an absolutely incredible incredible event, including uh what has uh created a lot of buzz here lately. And that is You ever been on a yacht, Scott? Like a yacht? Not not a boat. Not a crew.

[00:02:02]>> You've been on a couple yachts?

[00:02:03]>> Yeah.

[00:02:04]>> You do know how how the other side lives? How the other half lives? I've never been.

[00:02:09]>> I just visited.

[00:02:10]>> No, just visiting. Well, how about five days on a yacht with a chef with excursions uh with fishing for all kinds of species out of Fort Lauderdale with uh you know pretty much custom just for you and five of your friends that has been uh don donated. Now does he call it my unwind or my unwind charters out of Fort Lauderdale?

[00:02:37]>> I think it's my unwind.

[00:02:39]my unwind. This is a $25,000 to $30,000 package uh that a lot of people are talking about. That's going to be a raffle item for a mere $20 raffle ticket. You'll be able to to get in on that. And people are asking as well, okay, what does that not include? Well, it includes pretty much everything except your airfare and then the chef.

[00:03:00]You're going to have a private chef. So, uh if you want spam, you know, you're going to be able to ask the chef for some spam. Uh, if you want lobster, you're going to be able to ask the chef for some lobster.

[00:03:10]>> When I win that thing, I'm going to have to find me five new friends because [laughter] I don't have five friends that are used to that kind of style.

[00:03:19]>> That's That's exactly right. Um, and it's so I'll I'll be completely honest on this. You got to fly there. Hell, you can fly on Southwest Airlines to Fort Lauderdale, man. I mean, that's for a 25 $30,000 yacht trip private with C crew and everything else. and uh obviously accommodations, your own your own bedroom, uh it's cabin, whatever you want to call it. It's got everything you can imagine. And then it's $500 a day is the estimate that I got. I actually chatted with uh uh Captain Pat Riley, not the basketball coach, Captain Pat Riley a little bit via text and he's going to join us next week. So uh you can uh get get some details on that.

[00:03:59]He'll join us and he said it's about $500 a day for the chef. So, five days.

[00:04:04]You can do the math there. Math there and then whatever groceries uh you request. So, it is outstanding. 20, excuse me, [clears throat] $20 a ticket.

[00:04:13]Absolutely going to be a blast. So, that's one that's creating a lot of buzz right now. But, we've got Hugh Andry uh texted me uh and said, "Hey, how about this new digital uh is it the Curado? Is it digital Curado? Yeah, digital Curado, >> which is new, right, Scott?"

[00:04:30]>> Yeah, you introduced it at ICCAST.

[00:04:32]introduced it at ICCAST or probably not even readily available everywhere. Gonna donate one of those as well. We got the bourbon box, five different highlevel bourbons. I mean, just goes on and on and on. Please go to the group page. You can see what everything is, where everything is. RSVP, get it done. Come have a blast. All these people that have helped put it on are going to be there. We can give them a hug and buy them a beer, whatever it may be. Uh, and and get going. Um, one more thing and then we're going to get to Isabelle Tiller, uh, who we've all become big fans of, uh, over the course of watching her work and having her on the show in the past. But I do want to get to another couple of little things real quick. Um, I cast Scott, just give us a, you know, something of a rundown of, you mentioned, you know, um, the the new reel that was introduced by Shimano, but a lot of you're you're the kind of guy that >> you see a lot of gadgets, for lack of a better way to put it that you can I'm sure you look at them and you go like, nope, that ain't going to work. And then you see some And then you see some that are like, hey, now >> that's something I hadn't seen before.

[00:05:37]So, give us a little bit of of both of those. I've got two of them that I'm I'm talking to a good bit. One is a uh believe it or not an ariator >> that completely rethought ariation.

[00:05:51]>> Kind of >> kind of surprised me.

[00:05:54]>> It's it's about a 6 inch disc.

[00:05:57]>> It looks like a little uh a UFO, you know? I mean, your standard looking disc UFO, >> right? Yellow. And it has a you can charge it just like your phone.

[00:06:14]>> Mhm.

[00:06:14]>> But it's got a waterproof charger on there that's a magnetic charger.

[00:06:19]>> Like u kind of like my Mac MacBook is.

[00:06:23]>> Yeah.

[00:06:23]>> And so there's no open ports to it.

[00:06:26]>> And then the bottom right in the center in the bottom was you know the little nipple there where you hook the hose up to.

[00:06:32]>> And this thing once it's charged it runs for like 20 hours.

[00:06:36]>> My goodness. And it they had it running down into a, you know, a big stone on one and a smaller stone another. The pro model was the big stone, but it was like >> probably a 4 inch disc stone and it was putting out those really fine little bubbles. So, it's pretty strong do that.

[00:06:53]>> But it was one of those you just toss it into your bait well, it just floats. you in there instead of the, you know, everybody had the old battery ones, you know, with the TV cells and they work for two >> and they don't last. Yeah, >> this thing is solid looking. One best, it won best of show for new >> I forgot how they put it. New vendors >> uh >> and they all submit their products and it won best of show for that.

[00:07:22]>> That's pretty cool.

[00:07:23]>> That one was cool. Then the one right next to uh Captain Riley was one of I was stopped and talking to them. That's how I met him.

[00:07:33]>> It it's a little gadget that measures your drag.

[00:07:39]You know, we're always talking about how to set your drag. Where do you want to set your drag? This thing was all electronic, all waterproof, and it's like a little hand scale, but you punch in your your line >> line weight. Say 30 pounds. Yeah.

[00:07:54]>> And then you hook your rod up to it and you start pulling with your drag set, you know, and start setting your drag and it lights up green while it's still good. And if you overtighten it and it you can set it to 25 to 33% which is >> recommended for your drag.

[00:08:11]>> When you hit that point where you've got it too tight and it goes beyond that 33%, it turns red.

[00:08:18]>> Back off a little bit. Quick and easy. I mean, it was just like the guy was just, >> of course, he does all the time, >> but I could see really easy just hooking it up. Be nice to have on the boat because customers constantly fiddle with your drag. Dean knows that.

[00:08:32]>> You know, every time they're fighting a fish with one of your rods, they they start jacking with the drag. Next thing you know, it's way too loose or way too tight. And it'd be really easy to have that on the boat, hook it up, and reset the drags without all of us. We just grab it and we pull it and we go.

[00:08:48]>> And you know, yeah, you kind of know.

[00:08:50]>> That's about >> Or do you? Or do you? Yeah.

[00:08:52]>> Yeah. You don't really know. And this this will actually measure it for you.

[00:08:56]It was pretty cool.

[00:08:58]>> Well, that's very cool. And that 150 DC's been out a long time. So that's not really new except that they put it in a 150 size on the >> He's you contacted me said, "Hey man, I want to give you one of these for the for the feeding frenzy."

[00:09:14]>> Yeah, I just talked to him. I talked to him at ICast a good bit.

[00:09:17]>> Oh, nice. Nice. Uh and real quick and then we'll get to Isabelle because I want to spend a lot of time uh with her on on this topic. Uh but we do we do need to give a little bit of news.

[00:09:28]Um I guess question mark there's a tropical depression we need to be watching. I mean it's just up and down back and forth where it's going. I've seen Port O Connor Scotty actually texted me about that this morning. I've seen Rockport. I've seen nothing. And to me my my the what I want to talk about with you Dean is these are the ones and I think I might have put this in a text with Scott. These are the ones that scare me the most because everybody's kind of shrugging their shoulders like no big deal. it ain't coming. And then all of a sudden, there it is.

[00:10:02]>> I mean, don't buy into the drama. I mean, here we are. I mean, we have this conversation every summer. Um, I'm not buying into the drama that it's going to be any more than, >> man, I've been fishing in 30 mph wind for the past three weeks. [laughter] And >> and nobody got dramatic yet. I mean, nobody got >> You're just gonna be a little wetter >> about what I've been doing, you know, the last three weeks. Nobody cared about that. And then all of a sudden, you get something out there spinning around and everybody gets excited.

[00:10:36]>> This one, I mean, it is close to land.

[00:10:40]It's not out in the middle of the Gulf.

[00:10:42]Um, >> so half of its energy is going to get drawn away on the spinning side that covers that goes over land. Um the track has been fairly consistent.

[00:10:55]They had it dipping down below Houston like yesterday and now the ark is dipping back up towards Houston. And if it goes on a northern path closer to the coast, it it's probably not going to get any more exciting than a tropical depression. I think it's still a storm.

[00:11:13]Now, what is a tropical storm? 35 mph wind. It's >> It's at 60 right now.

[00:11:20]in the >> in the center.

[00:11:23]>> Yep.

[00:11:25]>> I fish in that. [laughter] >> It's close to It's close to being a cat one right now. [laughter] >> There's so much wind shear above it. The windshar is knocking the tops of it off.

[00:11:38]>> And it's really It's a poorly shaped form.

[00:11:42]>> Yeah, it's kind of like an amoeba.

[00:11:44]>> Yeah.

[00:11:44]>> Yeah. The storms and stuff are all on the south side of it. I don't know. I don't see us getting much out of it.

[00:11:49]After it crosses the boot there at Louisiana, it's supposed to drop back down to a tropical depression.

[00:11:54]>> And right now they have it going in at Sabine and up through the woodlands >> and by Saturday it's over Waco.

[00:12:05]>> All right.

[00:12:06]>> The interesting aspect of this, it has been moving three to five miles an hour.

[00:12:11]It is moving very very slow. That's probably where your biggest question mark is on it. Gives it too much time to think. And [laughter] >> we know you don't like thinking.

[00:12:28]>> If it floats a little further out into the Gulf, then it has great potential to get larger. if it floats a little bit more to the north and >> you know the center of it crosses over Louisiana >> um it's going to knock a lot of its energy out there too >> but then I mean that's the forecast for Madagorta at 60 miles an hour wind >> yeah those are >> I mean I just I mean we've been through a lot of these and you know just the center of the storm is going to be dramatic that's where the eye the um the wind is going to be in the center. But if you're at 200 miles away from the center, I mean, you just >> you might have some spin-offs, some thunderstorms and stuff like that, but um you just the drama that surrounds these things that sells commercials and gets everybody worked up. It sells look and it's good to be prepared there.

[00:13:29]Anybody who lives on the coast at this time of the summer, you should have your water bottles, your toilet paper because everybody's going to for whatever reason, >> everybody's going to buy toilet paper.

[00:13:40][laughter] >> It seems to be a trending thing nowadays.

[00:13:45]You know, >> get ahead of the curve on that >> now. Um, [laughter] but I mean, I don't know. The way this one is tracking where it's at, give it another day and then we'll probably have a better idea. But moving at three miles an hour and just parked out there in the Gulf, it does give it time.

[00:14:04]>> Anything's my prep work the last two days.

[00:14:07]>> Yeah, might as well be has involved being on a tractor or a skid or on a tractor in a zero turn and >> that's about it.

[00:14:15]>> Yeah, >> I'm getting everything mowed.

[00:14:17]>> My thing is don't shrug your shoulders, but also uh don't uh you know don't ignore it, you know. Well, yeah. Make sure you pay attention. All right. Uh, let's get Isabelle uh Tiller in here.

[00:14:30]Uh, we've been looking forward to this, wanting to talk tarpon and snook and your findings, Isabelle. First of all, how many letters do you have in the back of your last name now? I mean, uh, congratulations. Uh, so it's Isabelle Tiller. M A B C. What is it? What What do we got here?

[00:14:46]>> MS. I got my masters. [laughter] >> Okay.

[00:14:49]>> And I almost put it on my name here because I just want to show it off now.

[00:14:53]>> Well, yeah, you should. You should. Go ahead.

[00:14:57]>> You'll be um Dr. Tiller here pretty soon.

[00:15:01]>> Maybe.

[00:15:01]>> Well, we'll talk about that. But seriously, congratulations. I guess what has it been? Probably about nine months, maybe a year since we talked to you.

[00:15:09]>> Yeah, maybe about a year. I think last time I was on here, I was midway through the project.

[00:15:14]>> Okay. So, let's start from the beginning here because people are very interested.

[00:15:19]you know about this podcast and you know by the way listening to Dean and Scott what you're getting into today but uh I'm sure you're quite prepared for that but uh what you you have to go into these projects with the the stated goal the stated you know parameters so let's start right there you know what why and what you went into it you know for and then we'll get into some of your findings. Yeah. So, the purpose of this project was to identify tarpon and snook nursery habitats. So, where they spend the first zero to threeish years of their life. Um, and then the lab had I I work for the sportfish center. So, the lab had this project and I entered in as a master's student and kind of led that project.

[00:16:04]>> And so, go ahead.

[00:16:06]>> Yeah. Yeah. And then and now I'm here.

[00:16:07]So that involved a lot of identifying potential sites, talking to anglers, figuring out where they've seen the babies, and then randomly selecting some of those sites and re routinely monitoring them for um about two years.

[00:16:22]>> So when you uh got into this and you visited with us, you like you said, you were already about halfway in. What are some of the things? And and Scott and Dean, just be sure just let me know when you hop in. I'm just kind of setting the stage here. um as you defended your thesis, what would we take away as ah you know, okay, so that's something that we need to take note of.

[00:16:43]>> Yeah. So the big takeaways from my project and what we found with tarpon and snook nursery habitats is their where they were selecting was driven a lot by freshwater pulses and then a variety of different physical parameters. So, a lot of these tarpon and snook nurseries were disconnected from the bays. And that disconnection was very important because that's where um predators can't access these areas because it's too shallow or there's periods of where the nursery is completely disconnected from the bay and times where there's not. So, that disconnection is really important.

[00:17:15]Salenity levels were very important. and then lots of submerged vegetation and overhanging vegetation and and for lack of better terms, these nurseries were roadside ditches, drainage ditches.

[00:17:28]>> Um, and so that's where we found them.

[00:17:30]And those were kind of the key factors in driving tarpon and snip presence in these nurseries.

[00:17:35]>> So the water was maybe brackish or was it still salty?

[00:17:38]>> It was still salty. It depended on the day. Some days we'd go out and it would be zero parts per thousand and then some days it would be 30. Um, on average they would be probably around 10 to 20 parts per thousand, but it was it was very variable.

[00:17:53]>> And so guys, again, just just weigh in.

[00:17:55]I'm just again setting it up here because as you defended your thesis, um, what can we what can we learn? You know what we do? You know, you we we fish and a lot of people there's this, and I think we talked about this with you in the past, there's this perception of, ah, you know, I don't know how many tarpon are even here. I don't know if they're year- round tarpon. Uh, and then we can get to snook. But did you dispel that?

[00:18:16]>> Yeah, kind of. We So over the two years we tagged captured and tagged in the 90 I think it was 93 snook and then 85 tarpon. Most of them came from one or two areas which y'all are pretty familiar with and I know you're familiar with one of the ditches where we caught most of these tarpon and snook. Um, oh, the one of the important things about this nursery and this story is that it takes many years for tarpon and snook to develop and reach maturity. And so what we found was these nurseries are vital in bringing back the population so we can find them and protect them or restore them, then the odds of increasing the distribution and abundances of tarpon and silk across Texas is really, really, really important. And so now that we've kind of we found these areas, we've described them, now we can extrapolate that to the rest of Texas and figure out where are the other babies living throughout the state and then kind of go from there because if we can protect this this small life stage, then we can hopefully increase those numbers in the next couple of decades. And and the good thing is is they are the numbers are increasing. So there is like a general trend of >> increases in abundance for tarpon snook, which is good.

[00:19:29]And so how did the freeze of 21 because in my area and we know um the little roadside ditch um it was decimated. I mean that day after the freeze at the marina I mean there were dead tarpon, there were dead snook and there were thousands and thousands of other dead fish. So, for what you're finding now, are those survivors? Do you know if those were survivors? Do you know if those were replenished um by other breeding fish? Or is there a way to answer that question? Where did the babies that are there now originate?

[00:20:15]>> Yeah, I think I think these are new new fish, like new cohorts. I think we think that they range from zero to two years old depending on like the length that we found in these ditches. I think those are new fish. There was a freeze, not as bad, but in 2024 and we found in that ditch by the marina that that water was much warmer than all the surrounding waters and we caught like 20 tarpon in one day kind of pocketed up in the deeper parts. So they're so they're using these ditches as well as like overwintering habitat.

[00:20:49]Um, I think the water temperatures just dropped too cold too fast in 21. Um, but I definitely think that these guys that we found are new recruits. We, uh, last time I was here, we had just found leptophyli, which is the laral stage of a tarpon. They're about an inch long.

[00:21:04]They look like clear little eels. And we found, we had just found some in that ditch and in another ditch. And then in 2025, we found more. And so, I think that these ditches are serving as nurseries for continuous cohorts coming in. Do we know where they breed >> there? So, there's been a few studies kind of linking these pieces together.

[00:21:26]One said it was a satellite tracking and acoustic tagging study found migration runs along the Texas coast between Louisiana down to Mexico. They pass us kind of in the summer, late summer.

[00:21:38]You'll probably know that from fishing, but uh at the same time those migration runs are happening right alongside the coast. our timing of capturing those leptosphy those larae was in about a month and so I think that they're it's not for certain yet that's like one a good study that we can do is is I think that spawning is happening just off the Texas coast and then those leptofly are finding their way to the ditches >> and I okay I have two thoughts here and um before I forget one of them I'll get to um before the freeze before the 2021 freeze in the marina where my boat is um I would see tarpon throughout the summer, juvenile tarpon that were probably 20 21 in maybe some of them up to 24 that would just um circle the marina. I mean you it was not uncommon. It was daily in July and August you would see them surfacing and they would just go round and round in circles. I mean, they would follow just right around the poles, around the boats, and it was just entertaining to sit there and watch them. I have not seen a tarpon in the marina since that freeze.

[00:22:50]I mean, we spend a lot of time there, you know. I go there in the afternoon when I'm icing the boat, gassing the boat, getting it ready. You know, you just spend a little time and that's, you know, whenever you're just kind of taking a minute and looking at the water, you have time to observe that area. And I have noticed a distinct difference which is almost I have seen none of those post freeze. So how long does it take a tarpon to grow to 24 in?

[00:23:21]>> Uh I think it's a couple of years probably two to three years. The ones that we were catching in the ditch were much short smaller than that. They were anywhere from I don't know like five inches to up to two feet maybe. I think the largest one we caught was in the winter and it was about 2 feet, but most of them are much smaller. I think it takes a couple of years. My like theory is that they gain access to the ditch during high water pulses, so like tropical storm activity. And then when that water recedes, there's there's a series of culverts that separates the marina from the ditch. And so when the water receives those culverts are pretty dry or maybe like an inch or two uh with water so no fish can really get in or out.

[00:24:04]>> I think then they stay there in that ditch until the next water pulse comes in which could be a week later, could be a year later depending on the time of year and then they stay there and then they recede out. But we don't know where necessarily they go after they pull out of the ditch once they're that that size range that you're talking about. We did track, so of 30 of these tarpon had acoustic tags in them. And we did track one that left the ditch itself, believe in August of 25. And then we picked it up in October down the ICW at the where the ICW meets Corpus Christie Bay in October. And so like somewhere in that time slot, it was between the marina, which we didn't pick it up at our marina receivers, but that's not uncommon. the fish could swim by without the tag being picked up just depending on the timing. But it was like somewhere in that slot during that time period.

[00:24:55]That was the only fish that we tracked leaving the marina and going out past.

[00:24:59]So there is like some uncertainty about where they go after that and especially how many.

[00:25:04]It'll be interesting to see if over the next several years if you start seeing an increase in those tarpon at the marina or not. Like if they're if they're not using that place anymore or if there just aren't as many anymore.

[00:25:17]very cohort dependent and like survival based per year.

[00:25:21]>> Well, and that the habitat of the ditch has has been changed, >> right?

[00:25:28]>> So, how did that change what you found in there?

[00:25:31]>> So, we didn't Okay, so let's see. So, they dug out the ditch, the city dug out the ditch in I think like July of 25 and then I sampled through January of 26.

[00:25:40]So, I got like a good five, six month snapshot afterwards. We ended up actually catching the smallest fish that we've ever captured after the ditch was dug out. I think because in that ditch there was lots of structure in in it and then overhanging. So there was a lot of places I think that fish could be hiding. And so once they cleared it out, we started catching some of the smallest tarpon that we've ever caught. And we thought that size class was missing, but I think turns out they just didn't have anywhere to hide. Um we so we still caught several like plenty of tarpon afterwards and snook as well. The size classes kind of changed. Um, and I tagged I think I tagged an additional 10 with acoustic tags and those tags are still active. So, we haven't been sampling since since January, but we have been actively tracking. So, I will go out probably in the next month or so to see if those guys are still there, if they moved out, and kind of get an idea of Yeah. if the dig digging did change something.

[00:26:37]>> I found them as small as 12, 14 inches out of the jetties.

[00:26:42]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:26:43]A few years ago, we had a huge huge crop of them. And I mean, there were lit hundreds and hundreds of them running up down the jetties at Port Connor. And they were all those little 12, 14, 15 inch fish. Could not get them to eat anything, >> but we could watch them all day long, throw anything you want to in front of them. We couldn't catch them.

[00:27:04]>> And then the next year, I saw a bunch of them. It wasn't quite as many, but they were in that twoft range. Yeah. And now this past year, it's been about that was probably four or five years ago. And this past year, we had a whole bunch of three and a half to fourfooters. And it's my understanding at about four and a half feet give or take in what, seven, eight years is when they become sexually mature and they move out into the Gulf to migrate. Right.

[00:27:32]>> Yep.

[00:27:33]>> Okay. So, I wanted to ask you about that, you know, because as you're talking and I'm listening to Dean and and Scott, I'm like, "Okay, so they're there, then they grow, then they hang out for a while." And I was just going to ask you exactly that, like, is it just an instinct, you know, during the summer months? They know there's a migration or they join a migration. How do they end up going back to Mexico or maybe Florida or, you know, what are your theories on that? Again, this isn't necessarily part of your research, but some of the things that you may have, you know, sort of noticed.

[00:28:02]>> Yeah, that's a great question. I think from finding the Leptus FY two years in a row at the same time, just a year apart. To me, I wonder if we So, I I did collect the genetics. So, you can take a little clip of their pelvic fin and then preserve it and you can get a genetic uh they're >> like a fingerprint. Yeah.

[00:28:23]>> Yeah. Exactly. Um, I haven't looked at those yet, but it'd be interesting to see if there is like a genetic component because we captured leptofly two years in a row at the same time at the same time that fishermen were reporting the big tarpon migrations. And so I am wondering if it's all linked. Are these the same fish kind of returning to these places every year? Like is it genuinely in their DNA and then and then they follow that sequence back out and continue the cycle? I don't know. I think it would be really exciting to figure out and I have the genetics kind of sitting on my desk right now. So I'm excited to to [laughter] call ball rolling. They did um so I got my masters at the sportfish center defended two weeks ago and then they hired me on as a research specialist. So I do get to continue.

[00:29:05]>> So I we can talk about that now. Yeah.

[00:29:08]Yeah. Because Scott gave me the heads up or no you gave me the heads up on that and and I'm like oh okay. So so tell us about that. You're gonna you're gonna be at the Sportfish Center as an employee now doing research.

[00:29:19]>> Yes. Yes sir. So, so I'll continue some of this tarpon stuff. I'm like I'm sending out the snook fin clips next week to get an idea of the different smoke species that we captured with these little guys. Um, we're expanding to doing a similar study statewide. So, figuring out where are all the other potential nursery habitats throughout the state. We're doing the lower half and then we're partnering with Texas Native Galveston. They're doing the upper half. So, we'll continue to figure out this story and then yeah, I'm hopped on a bunch of different projects. We're going offshore on Thursday and learning a lot [laughter] already on >> So, will Portal Connor be part of yours?

[00:30:00]>> Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think we're PC in South. Yeah.

[00:30:02]>> Okay. So, I've I've got some places for you that I got in mind.

[00:30:06]>> Okay. And as you were talking previously when I was I wasn't here last year >> and I I had a whole bunch of places in my head where I thought, you know, that that would work. And I've got some places in Galveston, too, because I I I guided Galveston and that was kind of my thing on the side on my days off was going looking for baby tarpon.

[00:30:29]>> Um I found a bunch of them.

[00:30:31]>> Awesome.

[00:30:32]before we move to snook. Um what what can what can we maybe surmise here uh in terms of year round tarpon uh and and you know how I started this like a lot of people are wondering oh you know maybe in the migration maybe guys like Scott can catch them but uh or or see them you know do you feel pretty confident there it sounds like it you know that that they're a snook in various places or are they just mainly hold up in in you know where they're breeding and and growing? Yeah, I think I think with tarpon it's very cyclical and these places that they're targeting are kind of the last places. Every ditch that we found them in was very heavily urbanized. A lot of these ditches were filled with shopping carts and trash and [laughter] and there would be roads and people be flying over next to you as you're like >> and there's tarp in there.

[00:31:24]>> Water.

[00:31:25]>> Yeah.

[00:31:26]>> Um so the places that we found both tarp and snook they was a little bit different. We found them in a more variety of places, but Tarpon specifically, these these nurseries are places that you would overlook every day. And I think the biggest takeaway here is those places are still important and that those places are are driven by salinity levels and that those pulses.

[00:31:52]So that will be important to consider going into the future. So given that, you think that in the future we could recreate those and have tarpon nurseries?

[00:32:03]>> Yeah, that's been a a conversation of late and I'll be meeting with some people from Florida. They've been doing tarpon nursery studies for decades now.

[00:32:12]We'll be meeting with them to kind of compare notes and see uh what we could do here in Texas. Our nurseries do look a bit different. They're both urbanized, but they also have in Florida the more mangrove presence than we do, and that is an important park nursery component.

[00:32:28]Um, but yeah, going into the future, it'll be interesting to see if we can identify more of similar places or restore them.

[00:32:38]Um, the biggest piece I would say with the nurseries is that disconnection.

[00:32:42]they really need to be disconnected from the bay, which can sometimes be contradictory to what you might think.

[00:32:49]Like a lot of restoration um practices you think you'd want to open up the system so that the tarpon can get there and it's actually the opposite. So that's a really important and interesting piece that we'll be considering in the future as we identify more of these places and then and move to that restoration.

[00:33:04]>> A lot of the ones I found in Galveston were in they were in sand pits.

[00:33:10]>> Yeah. a sand pit that had one little bitty ditch that went to it and then they were in those sand pits and we had some actually had some three or four footers in some of those sand pits. But uh yeah, a lot of little ones, you know, a lot of little be bitty baby daring.

[00:33:24]You'd see them up rolling. So can't be that hard to make a ditch. [laughter] I mean, we can get Dean.

[00:33:33]Here's and and this is in interested in like the things that Scott saw that he want you know that um would be interesting to explore and discover new areas because the ones like the ditches and things that we speak of that are very urban there's got to be and I mean I know of other places that are ditch but they're naturally created and undiscovered. They're not easily accessible. You know, they are on remote islands, spoil islands, shorelines along the inter coastal where you have natural drainage that occurs that wasn't created um by man or you know like um a a water control you know a drainage flood control type of area. And there's just if if it's occurring in these ditches that are man-made and that have access to and have been discovered, there's got to be plenty of other natural undiscovered areas out there.

[00:34:44]>> Right. Right.

[00:34:45]>> Where the same habitat is taking place >> and they just got to have enough.

[00:34:52]>> Say that again.

[00:34:53]>> Boggy. Boggy. Back behind Port Okconor.

[00:34:56]Yeah, >> it has these little bitty natural ditches back there. And I know guys who've caught them in cast nets back there.

[00:35:04]>> They caught four, five, six inch long tarpon in there.

[00:35:07]>> See, Dean, we just need to throw a shopping cart into the marina. We'll get tarpon everywhere. You know that, [laughter] >> man. Look, and I'm sure Isabelle knows she's probably dredged up some murder weapons.

[00:35:22][laughter] >> We already Here. We're here. He asked a question. What's the most interesting thing you found?

[00:35:30]>> I don't want to incriminate anybody, but I know there were some motorcycle frames thrown off of that bridge. There were [laughter] >> It's evidence, man. I mean, Rams Pass has a long history of disposing of evidence off of bridges. [laughter] >> So, what'd you find, Isabelle?

[00:35:49]>> Fortunately, we didn't find any evidence of murder. We always [laughter] talked about it. Um, the two ditches that we did have, Tarpon had shopping carts.

[00:35:58]That was kind of our ongoing joke.

[00:35:59]>> I'm telling you, Dean, I'm telling you, [laughter] >> um, in terms I I mean, that's probably like the most Lots of baby doll heads.

[00:36:08]Kind of like Jay Tennel, if you're familiar with [laughter] >> fishes though, we caught some very fascinating fish. We in one ditch we caught like six alligator gar every summer consistently. We caught pretty nice like slot reds which was also exciting >> or unexpected because these places are nasty.

[00:36:34]>> They don't look the part terms.

[00:36:36]>> Yeah, they don't look the part and Scott talks about that. Just go back go back as far as you can.

[00:36:41]>> Yeah. So um out of curiosity I mean I don't know where you have explored and where you have um have drift nets. So from where the marina comes out to the inter coastal, if you go south towards Engleside and you go past all of the industrial area, there is a long stretch of shoreline that is completely unindustrialized.

[00:37:03]And there are little cuts and there are little channels that go back into super super shallow lakes um that go back around. There's some oil field roads.

[00:37:13]There are some culver pipes in there.

[00:37:15]Have y'all ever explored that area?

[00:37:18]No, we didn't explore that area for this study. Um, but I could add that to my list of sites to explore for the statewide study which is starting up here in a couple of months.

[00:37:28]>> Hey, you got the right guys to ask about these things. These two cats.

[00:37:31]>> Yeah.

[00:37:32]>> Well, that is the one that just that that's the first one that comes to mind where it is a natural duplication of what was created just closer to town.

[00:37:46]And it's I mean you're only talking maybe three miles >> away from there >> um with you know channel that goes straight to the inter coastal and so your acoustic findings I mean if those fish were coming out of the marina and going to Engleside to the ship channel they swam right past >> right by it. Yeah. Right by it.

[00:38:07]>> So be the very similar. So, I do want to get to Snook and we're going to keep you longer than you probably thought just because this is really interesting, but but let's uh just tell your boss here all day.

[00:38:18]>> Yeah, just tell just tell your boss it's us. He probably >> he probably fishes. Um so, before we get to Snook, let's talk about what we like to talk about here. Fishing, uh the the the population, uh the future, um the you the health of of the fishery. How would you describe it? let's say now and moving forward. Are we going to be able to see will we see and catch more tarpon?

[00:38:46]>> I am optimistic. I am optimistic about that. I think it will take us a while to see. Like Scott said earlier, tarpon take seven, eight years to reach maturity. Females sometimes don't reach sexual maturity until 13. So, it takes quite a while for these babies to reach reproduction. And so I think I feel optimistic about the populations. We've been seeing trends of increase for decades all across Texas. They're small, but it's increasing. And so I think by seeing these nurseries, by seeing that these love set fire are coming back, there might be a cycle going on here. I do feel optimistic about it. I don't know if we'll see that, you know, like next year.

[00:39:26]>> Yeah. do think in the in the next like decade or so we we will see an increase as long as we focus on these nurseries and continue to protect them. I think I think we'll be okay. I don't know >> how many >> to reach historic levels or if we will >> Right. Right. How many reports of of uh juvenile tarpon, let's say two, three feet, as Scott was describing, do you hear from fishermen? And how much do you talk to fishermen like in the in the bays? Like either just moving around or hanging out until they can get out to, you know, the the the other tarpon that are that are coming from Mexico or whatever. Do do you get many reports of tarpon in the bays like that?

[00:40:01]>> We do. And it's pretty seasonal.

[00:40:03]>> Every fall I'll get my phone will blow up of people saying, "I'm catching them everywhere." Like, "I'm catching them in these locations outside of the ditches."

[00:40:10]>> Yeah. So, it seems pretty pretty seasonal, but pretty consistent over the past couple of years that I've been involved in this at least.

[00:40:18]>> Scott, you got anything before we get to snook?

[00:40:20]>> I know a year or two ago they sent out a a big survey asking where you've seen baby tarpon. Was that something you were involved with or was that something else?

[00:40:31]>> Yeah, so that that survey is now closed, but that was what was going to help us guide the statewide study. And so, um, I've been looking at all those survey results and we've been going out to a lot of these locations to see if they'll be sustainable or if if they're accessible, if we can floor a net through them to then do for our statewide sampling survey. So, all of that information is one protected and two has been extremely helpful in guiding the statewide hunt for nurseries. So, thank you guys.

[00:40:58]>> Dean, do you have anything before we move on to to to snook here? I know we could spend two hours on just tarpon, but >> No, we >> I did want to ask you this though.

[00:41:08]>> I I did want to ask you this before we move on. Uh from John uh mentioning here on on the text thread, you probably saw it. Good research like this leads to more research questions. That is always the case. But what is yours? What what is your All right, I got to find this out now. You know, based on everything you learn now, I gota now I gotta find this. You know what I mean?

[00:41:26]>> I have so many questions. [laughter] I think the two the two main ones that I'm interested in is where did those leptophy come from and then where do the tarpon the juvies go once they leave the ditches. I think like those would be my next two questions and I have lots of ideas.

[00:41:46]>> How does that tarpon egg find its way?

[00:41:51]>> Yes.

[00:41:51]>> To that >> exactly >> is a great question.

[00:41:55]>> I mean it's the same thing as the little red fish. you know, she said, you know, storm surges and things like that.

[00:42:02]>> Yeah, we get the fall tides, they're bigger. From what I understand with tarpon and bonefish trust and some of the the satellite tagging, >> they found that a lot of the fully mature tarpon along our coast, as soon as the full moon hit, they went straight offshore into 100 plus feet of water and it was consistent. That's what they did.

[00:42:25]So, their thought was that's where they're going out that far to spawn >> and catching the incoming tide on that that full moon just like red fish. And that sucks them all the way up into those little backwaters. Ones that get lucky and end up in a backwater, they survive. The ones that don't, they just don't make it.

[00:42:45]>> That it's it's very interesting. Like I said, I could keep you on here all day.

[00:42:52][laughter] >> Yeah. and and and red fish are probably easier to explain because they gather in mass right at the jetties >> and it's more logical that those things get carried in on the tide. But if the tarpon are doing their thing at 100 feet deep offshore >> Yeah.

[00:43:13]>> How does how do they Yeah. How does that happen? making it into that pass is it's going to remain a mystery until Isabelle figures it out for us.

[00:43:22]>> Yeah, we're we're counting on you, Isabelle. Um, all right. So, so Snook, um, what was your We'll start where we started on the other one. What was your what was your big uh takeaway for lack of a better way to put it on Snook? Now, you did mention earlier that they were in many of the same places, but I gathered that they weren't always in the same places as >> Tarpon. So, we studied the same six nursery sites. We went out every other week and sampled them, pulled the same net through the sites that we captured.

[00:43:51]We captured snook at all six of those sites versus tarpon, we only captured at three of them. Um, with snook, it was a much different story. So, with tarpon, we captured multiple different sizes ranging from the small up tofly up to 600 millimeters, which is like two and a half to three feet long. Um, with snook, I think the largest one we captured was about six inches. So, they were much smaller using these same places, but at different stage of their life. We also captured them >> at different times. So, tarpon, we captured them almost year round, just at different stages, versus with snook, we always captured them between the months of October and April. We didn't capture any snook at all from May through September. Now, that was the certain size class. I think the smaller snooker recruits um like fresh out of the egg are probably there. We just didn't have the gear to select for that.

[00:44:42]>> Mhm.

[00:44:42]>> But the ones that we were finding were much smaller and they were in a much wider variety of habitats. So we caught most of them in those same dirty ditches that we caught our tarpon at, we also captured them at places with very different substrates like sand substrates, some with more seaggrass, some with no structure, some with structure. It was it was a very wide variety. I think that the ones that we captured were using these habitats transiently. So they hatched and they found these places and they reached a certain size and then they moved elsewhere. Again, I don't know where that elsewhere is. That's studies for the future as as well.

[00:45:19]>> Another question for you. [laughter] >> Do we know where where the snook uh spawn? I I know my Florida guys that I talk to all the time, Ed Zak, Mark Nichols with DOA, there's a certain time of year in the summer that they mark them on their their side scans and down scans that they're in the middle of the channels between the jetties in huge huge masses and it's suspected that that's where they spawn. I haven't gone out and looked for that myself, but I'm going to. And we just we don't have that many around Porto Conor yet. We have we have some snook here, but it'd be interesting to see if they're they're doing it the same way. I would imagine that they would, you know, snook's a snook.

[00:46:09]>> Yeah.

[00:46:10]>> Yeah. There I don't know off the top of my head. I know there are several adult snook studies happening right now in this area. Um that might be information that we'll figure out in the future. Um, I do know that when snook spawn, they're they don't have the leptofly phase. They pop out looking like a little tiny little tiny snook. They do immediately find habitat that's close to those areas. And when we found those small snook recruits, and I say that's like about like half an inch long. We found them in seaggrass beds in locations that were really close to the bay. So, I'm wondering like if that is a a connection to it. were they spawning in those deeper waters in the bay? And then those snook recruits just found the first nice place that they could find cover and food, which was like those seaggrass beds. And then as they got larger, moved deeper into the ditches where we were finding them that look slightly different than those pristine seagrasses.

[00:47:07]Um there's definitely there's definitely like multiple pieces going on as they move throughout these different habitats. But I think proximity for them is the biggest piece. proximity to the spawning grounds versus um the recruit grounds versus then true nursery grounds.

[00:47:25]>> I could see where they wouldn't go in those ditches and stay there as much throughout the summer. You know, you're saying they're in the fall. The oxygen levels just got to be next to nothing, as we all know, can breathe air, >> right?

[00:47:38]>> And snook can't. So, I would that would make sense that they wouldn't be in there in the summertime.

[00:47:44]>> Yeah. And I'm also wondering in these ditches, the only predators are essentially your tarpon and your snook. And so part of me is wondering if the snook are getting out of there before a tarpon might eat it. [laughter] >> True.

[00:48:00]>> Dean, you got something?

[00:48:01]>> Um, no. I mean, they've got to be susceptible to birds, though. I would imagine that herand and the waiting birds that really love to hunt in those type of areas, they are should check their bellies and see [laughter] tarpon are inside a blue heron.

[00:48:24][laughter] >> That's a that's a great point. I just read a paper in Florida that they noted that they didn't look at aviation predation like the fancy term >> but they said that when they were going out to their again like remote study sites they were finding like tarpon bones.

[00:48:42]>> Yeah.

[00:48:43]>> From birds.

[00:48:44]>> So it definitely is a piece. So you shouldn't like look at that.

[00:48:48]>> Um somebody needs to study her scat.

[00:48:52][laughter] >> Yes. I think I'll ask the undergrads they want to take.

[00:48:56]>> Leave that. Leave that to the undergrad.

[00:48:58]>> We need an intern. We need an intern.

[00:49:02][laughter] >> Intern you don't like >> your job today. Your job today [laughter] is uh and >> you mentioned they kind of hang around in the same areas. So I'm guessing that would uh translate like maybe the snook you found in those ditches. There were just as many if not more in other places that were close to where they were laid.

[00:49:23]you know, the eggs were laid, so to speak. So, they could be everywhere.

[00:49:26]Correct.

[00:49:27]>> Right. And they they don't have as big of restrictions uh in terms of like specifics, I guess, that the tarpon have. Well, I guess they're less restricted in dissolved oxygen. Temperature is their most restricting factor. And over the past several decades, we have been seeing an increase in snow distribution. So, they're formally limited more towards like the >> lower laguna madre, Brownsvilleish area.

[00:49:52]And then we've had reports over this is with parks and wildlife all the way all the way up along the coast. So part of this study was also seeing our snook using like what habitats are they using that aren't previously documented. And um most of the studies that came out I think in like the 2010s so like 10 to 15 years ago documented snook only in these kind of ditch like areas and then this study kind of showed that they're using more than that as they're expanding. So that was also be an interesting piece going forward to see if they're using different types of habitats as they expand and they're able to withstand water temperatures or kind of what that story looks like.

[00:50:32]>> And no real migration per se.

[00:50:35]>> No, not necessarily. They're not like migratory like carpon are.

[00:50:39]>> Yeah. Hey, before we let you go, I want to ask you I mentioned this at the very beginning. you know, you literally have been kneedeep with a sane in your hand uh you and your cohorts uh around these particular areas, but really up and down uh many areas. Tell us what you think about the habitat and the ecosystem right now for our fishery because this is something that we always talk about and and you know, where is it compared to 20 years ago, 30 years ago, where is it compared to five years ago?

[00:51:04]>> Yeah, it's it's funny you mentioned this. I talked a lot about this in my closed door defense during my thesis defense.

[00:51:11]I think hydraology is one of the most important pieces here. Um when like Lake Corpus Christie was damned several decades ago, it was also kind of around the same time we stopped seeing the numbers of tarpon and juvenile tarpon and snook that we did back then. Um I think moving forward that freshwater piece will be a very important thing to keep an eye on which I know is kind of a controversial topic right now. And so, and so moving forward, I I hope to see healthy fisheries. It'll be interesting to see how the freshwater crisis, for lack of better terms, is how how that affects our freshwater input into Corpus Christie Bay and then into the surrounding areas. I think if there is those pulses, the tarpon and snook will like continue to to find these places and thrive. It might not be at historic levels, but I think they're they're adaptable enough to to continue growing, I guess. Um, but like I said, I do feel optimistic now that we're being now that we're able to identify these nurseries and identify that freshwater piece as important and then moving along the whole Texas coast. I do feel optimistic that we'll at least be able to protect what we have and then moving forward hopefully restore um other habitats with this.

[00:52:30]>> So as as you're dragging s nets through there, I mean we've been talking about tarpon and snook specifically today, but what about speckled trout and red fish in those areas? I mean do you find more babies now less? or how does that compare to um the snook and the tarpon?

[00:52:50]Are it do they live are they in the same areas?

[00:52:52]>> They there definitely aren't a ton of trout and red fish in those same areas, but there were um we did capture quite a few laral stage uh tarp or sea trout and red fish in these areas. Definitely not the numbers that you'd see like in the seaggrass beds or in other places of the bay itself, but we were finding them.

[00:53:13]And then we were finding juveniles, adults. There were there were definitely some not as many tarpon, not as many as tarpon and >> snook.

[00:53:21]>> It kind of almost like almost like remnants or [laughter] the ones that were like trying to find something.

[00:53:27]>> What about uh your thoughts on mangroves and seaggrass right now and the health of that?

[00:53:32]>> Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:53:33]Specifically in terms of like the tarpon and snook piece, I don't think seaggrass is as important in that nursery component. more so definitely more so for snook than for tarpon. Um the mangrove piece is interesting because mangroves provide a lot of protection inside the water and then also provide areas for small prey items to occur as well. I don't think necessarily for these nurseries that you we need to like put a bunch of mangroves out. If there's other structures that can mimic that same thing, I think that will provide the same um purposes of of prey and refuge.

[00:54:10]It would be it will be interesting to see how mangroves the like resurgence or the kind of the back and forth of how that play out here will be interesting to see if how that works within these nurseries that we've identified. There's like feel like there's still some questions there as to how important the mangrove piece is to our fisheries, but they're very important to the fisheries in Florida.

[00:54:34]So, that's something that we'll be when I meet with them next week, we'll kind of compare and discuss. You guys have anything else?

[00:54:45]>> Go ahead, Scott.

[00:54:45]>> Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's it's a totally different root system, >> right?

[00:54:51]>> Yeah. So, we need shopping carts is what I'm getting out of this. We need tons and tons of shopping carts.

[00:54:58]What's going through my mind is a partnership with some private, >> you know, private land owners and building some building habitats and ditches and put culverts in there where boats can't get in and out. And then you can kind of control the fresh water and the saltwater. Hey, maybe put in solar wells just to provide that that freshwater outflow.

[00:55:25]>> Something along those lines. Sound just >> Yeah, you're nodding you're nodding your head, Isabelle.

[00:55:32]>> Okay, that could that could work.

[00:55:35]>> I think that'd be pretty cool.

[00:55:37]>> So, listen. Uh we we we definitely want to do this again. We don't want to dominate all your time, but this was fantastic. Come down and see us at the feeding frenzy August 29th. Uh, I'm sure we'll uh we'll have a lot of our listeners that'll thank you and uh and certainly um you know have some questions for you, but any parting thoughts that we didn't get to? Uh this is my old journalism 101 thing. You know, there's probably something in your mind that you think you know I I wish I could have mentioned that. What is it?

[00:56:05]>> I think [laughter] I think I hit all the the high points >> what came out of the study. I think another thing is there's just so many more questions. There's a lot of uncertainty about what's moving forward and a lot of questions to answer about all the pieces that we talked about like where the left step fly came from, where the tarpon go after that, why were there not any big snook in the ditches?

[00:56:25]There's >> it opened up a lot of questions, but it did provide like a really solid baseline for where we can go from here.

[00:56:31]>> So, I think >> my parting my parting note from today will just be that there's a lot more work to do and y'all's help is essential in it. And so I'm very grateful to be able to to lean on such a great fishing community to just answer all these crazy questions that we all have.

[00:56:51]>> My takeaway from today is I want to get me a sane net and I want [laughter] to go out and start dragging some areas.

[00:57:00]>> I think you will need a permit for that.

[00:57:03][laughter] >> You might need a permit.

[00:57:05]>> Just for some curiosity to see what uh So wait a minute. So [laughter] I used so I I was a a boy scout leader for many years and we used to do um we would take a sane net and take the kids out there. We did school trips with the kids also and we would go um down to the side of the causeway and drag a sane net and we would catch you know pipe fish and seahorses and those things that requires a permit.

[00:57:34]>> I don't think so. I'd actually have to look up don't have to look up the rules.

[00:57:38]I know like the size of that that's why I need a [laughter] permit.

[00:57:42]>> We don't want we don't want asking >> it was always >> for forgiveness [laughter] that in the bushes and run boys.

[00:57:55][laughter] >> We got Lonear. We're going to turn into an episode of Lonear Law. It's gonna be an episode of Lonear Law here. Dean's going to be in handcuffs on TV.

[00:58:03]>> [laughter] >> Isabelle told me I could use the saying >> it's research but it's in the name of science >> and as Hawker Hawker just said on the text science that's that's Dean's catch word by the way there was a question that popped up earlier that I saw and I I wanted to mention it. You said the salt content in those ditches was zero to 30.

[00:58:27]>> What is it typically in the bay and typically on the beachfront? Um, that's a great question. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. I know the ocean, for reference, can be anywhere from like 30 to 60 parts per thousand or more.

[00:58:43]>> Right.

[00:58:44]>> I think the bay is probably around the 30s would be my guess.

[00:58:48]>> Yeah. I think the number that I've heard for like Baffin Bay where they're pretty much locked is like 50 to 60 at times >> is what I think I recall. It's a hypers saline >> um bait without a lot of flow. So I believe that one ran in in 50 to 60. And here you know in Oran's past with the pass that has a huge fluctuation in and out every day. It's got to have a great on a daily bas or a weekly monthly basis.

[00:59:27]>> All right, Isabelle, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:59:29]>> But we don't get a lot of rain run off either.

[00:59:32]>> We're going to have you on again. Come see us if you can. Uh we'll we'll get your meal and uh beverage of your choice and and we'll talk uh we'll talk more.

[00:59:40]>> Yeah. Appreciate it.

[00:59:41]>> Yeah. Thanks for having me on again. I appreciate it >> very much. All right, boys. Uh that was great.

[00:59:48]>> Thank you very appreciate Isabelle. It's It's great having people like that out there, man. It is great having people out there like that. And and she said it, you know, we're we're here to to spread the word and and maybe find out uh a lot more about uh catching tarpon.

[01:00:03]catch a tarpon and snook. Um, all right.

[01:00:05]So, we're going to get right to uh what would Scott do and what would Dean do.

[01:00:09]We got a little we got a little uh little tropical depression that may be throwing some curve balls uh at us, but uh what are you guys thinking besides going to your nearest ditch and uh and dragging the sand? [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, this thing is so up in the air >> as to how much rain it's going to be, how windy is it going to be, how where the hell is it going to go? I mean, >> where's it going to go?

[01:00:34]>> We got way more questions than we got answers. Kind of like >> we got a lot a lot of questions here.

[01:00:42]>> And so, isn't it odd? I mean, is it just me or And Scott always has deep thoughts on these subjects. the perception that the dirty side or the windy side and the rainy side is like the upper quadrant.

[01:00:59]And this one appears to be >> exactly the opposite of what you expect from a low pressure system spinning in the Gulf. I mean, the rain is completely on the opposite side of what is expected.

[01:01:14]>> Yeah.

[01:01:14]>> Yeah. Two things there. the uh the upper level winds are shearing off the tops of those as the thunder clouds start forming the upper level winds are shearing them off and that's pushing it making it oblong shaped also the the interaction with land on that north side is we have extreme dry air just north of that there's a high pressure system there that high pressure system is what is pushing it west you know instead of it Typically, they come in the Gulf and they make that little curve and, you know, start heading northeast. Uh, this one is pinned against that high pressure system that that's what's pushing it the other way and making it go straight west. It's pretty rare kind of a situation with that storm the way it's >> going to go almost due west >> and you don't see that very often once they get anywhere close to us.

[01:02:09]But the uh the main thing is that windshar ain't knocking the top of it off. Plus, it hasn't tightened up.

[01:02:18]>> You'll see as they start spinning stronger, they'll tighten up and that usually starts pushing that that storm to that northeast quadrant. But, uh, this one I that's why I don't know what to say about what I'm gonna do this week because all >> they may have updated it during the show as we've been here because now the line has dropped below Houston, the direct line which was curving >> up a little bit. And I mean, what every three or four hours that line is squirreling around.

[01:02:51]>> Yeah. They're going to run them every four hours. And then hurricane hunters are going in. they're going to get more information about it and as they do that it'll get more clear. They'll have a better handle on it.

[01:03:02]>> But >> yeah, that's why I'm not real sure what to say about this weekend.

[01:03:07]>> Watch and wait.

[01:03:08]>> I mean, I've got [laughter] got trips coming up. I've got two messages right now that have come in during this. Hey, what are we doing this week?

[01:03:18]>> Yeah. I really can't tell them anything because if that if it doesn't tighten up and that windshar continues as it moves this way the way it's set up right now if the center goes over Houston Galveston we're gonna get real wet down here.

[01:03:31]>> Yeah, big time. Big time. And that's the main worry is just the flooding at this point because the winds like Dean said you >> Yeah, the wind's not >> This one's not This one's not something that we're worried about on that end.

[01:03:43]It's just the amount of moisture that's pinned against that high pressure and it's going to it's going to ring all that moisture out of it.

[01:03:50]>> Yeah.

[01:03:51]>> And I would I would venture to say it's not really in the forecast, you know, for me. I got like 30 40 50% chances of rain Thursday and Friday >> and not a lot.

[01:04:02]>> But I I see that changing. I think the trends, >> you know, you know what they should put on the forecast for like the next seven days is question marks. [laughter] No numbers, no percentage, just just put a row of question marks up there and that's probably closer to what we're dealing with. The one thing I'm uh looking forward to is a push of tide, a good little um surge of water from the Gulf that gets pushed into the jetties, pushed into the flats. It brings in much cooler water. We've been stuck in that >> summertime heat. It's just hot. And that is the one thing in July and August that turns those ultra flats back on again is when we get a good and I've said that before.

[01:04:51]You know what's unfortunate for my neighbors in the Gulf. As long as it doesn't hit me, it's going to push some beautiful water my direction.

[01:05:00]>> Yeah.

[01:05:01]>> But we'll see how it all plays out. Next Tuesday we'll have answers for everybody.

[01:05:07]>> Yeah. Scott, you got anything?

[01:05:09]>> Yeah. The only problem with that is we're not really on the push side. We're more on the suck side.

[01:05:14]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> Appropriate. By the way, >> all sides of this one's pretty bad.

[01:05:24][laughter] >> If you get the the northeast side, that's push, the north and the, you know, that side is the push. The other side's the pull.

[01:05:33]>> And the way it's set up right now, we're going to be on that pull side. But I'm not seeing the north winds. Like in the past when I've we've seen storms come in like this, my forecast will switch around like Barrel.

[01:05:45]>> When Barrel was coming in, was it last year or two years ago, whenever the hell that was >> when it went in, we had north winds and it was real dry north winds >> and it it actually sucked water out as if it was a a cold front was coming in.

[01:06:01]>> Yeah. All right, boys. Uh fantastic. Uh and we'll we'll find out. I mean, we'll find out soon enough. Don't forget uh all the all the particulars here, fellas and ladies that are listening because uh you need to RSVP. You need to check out all the all the stuff on the podcast on the group page. You need to book these fellas. Uh they are a blast. Actually went fishing with Dean. You can you can subscribe to the YouTube channel. Uh that video will probably be up uh this weekend uh that we did. And of course, shootout videos up there. We got all kinds of stuff. So, uh, just be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcast, YouTube channel, Facebook group page. It it benefits you and you get stuff like this all the time. Uh, you guys, uh, appreciate it.

[01:06:42]Thanks a lot to Isabelle. Uh, we definitely will have her on. Uh, again, she's going to be running the whole show here pretty soon. But, uh, you guys have a great, uh, a great rest of your week, rest of your weekend. Catch them up.

[01:06:53]We'll talk to you next time.

[01:06:54]>> Just surmise, we got a lot of questions.

[01:06:56]We ain't got very many answers. And I'm headed to Tackle Town shopping