Beyond the title,land, leadership & the EFF at 13

[00:00:00]Even though you didn't want to play 30-seconds.

[00:00:02]I don't >> [laughter] >> What were you scared I'm going to >> Yeah, I'll just embarrass [laughter] myself.

[00:00:08]>> I've never had a friend from a royal house.

[00:00:12]>> [laughter] >> So I want you to take me back when you were growing up. Were you aware that you're royalty? So how does it feel though to carry the frustrations of your community? It's unemployment, >> [music] >> you know, others don't have shelter.

[00:00:27]>> The rest of the land that was taken from black people here in the country and in the continent. It would [music] mean complete not only political freedom, but more importantly economic freedom.

[00:00:40]Uh ownership of the minerals.

[00:00:43]It is the Gariep Molopo area. You know, we need to have part ownership.

[00:00:48]>> Of course if then that is the case, how come we never see the the horses, you know, the traditional leaders >> [music] >> um leading a march, a protest march.

[00:01:00]>> So I think EFF you know, the one of the lifetime achievement is that they're consistently fighting for black people. The boss or the white man >> Yeah.

[00:01:10]>> starts mistreating them, they'll say it's all about the money. So we are happy to see the EFF grow. We are happy to see it part of the South African political life. It as I said, it's giving a lot of our people courage. We wish it the best.

[00:01:32]>> Greetings everybody. My name is Sitole Sekhukhuse.

[00:01:36]I'm the EFF election spokesperson. And today we have a very special guest Khosi uh Siyahlala who is um a senior traditional leader and a chairperson of the National House of Traditional Leaders and the Khoisan Leaders. Khosi greetings and welcome to the EFF podcast.

[00:02:00]>> Madume, madume kgotso.

[00:02:02]You are most welcome.

[00:02:04]>> Thank you for giving us your time.

[00:02:06]Um, I think before we even start having this conversation with you, uh, I've never had a friend from a royal house.

[00:02:14]>> [laughter] >> So, I want you to take me back when you were growing up. Were you aware that you're royalty?

[00:02:22]>> No, of course I was aware because you see the thing with the royalty, it's it's it's very tricky. I see it even with my son now.

[00:02:32]Uh, people call him Khosi even in front of me.

[00:02:35]So, it it also happened with my father whereby I was called Khosi in front of him.

[00:02:41]Uh, so I I mean because I grew up here, I I saw, you know, the royal crawl and the community meetings and the royal engagements and sometimes the celebrations, cultural celebrations that would would be here.

[00:02:56]So, you you know that, uh, you are in a royal space.

[00:03:00]>> And and how did that influence your attitude? Like I think for me it would I would be pompous and and like, you know, you don't take me for granted. You're talking to a Khosi now.

[00:03:11]>> Yeah, well, we grew up in an era where there was a lot of discipline and you would get a lot of hiding.

[00:03:18]>> Yeah.

[00:03:18]>> Uh, if you were to be ill-disciplined in a community, I remember ill-disciplined community members are brought here to be disciplined.

[00:03:27]>> Yeah.

[00:03:27]>> So, you see that people are being disciplined and in the true nature of the Setswana culture, they will also do it to you because you need to implement it later.

[00:03:38]So, there's no way you can misbehave because you you think you are special. No, they they treat you like any other ordinary child. But, also I think the aspect of of the the schooling because I I did half of my schooling here in the village.

[00:03:55]>> Yeah.

[00:03:56]>> Uh the teachers would discipline you very quickly if you try to act like you're special. They show you the love and the respect. They will call you crazy, but they will still discipline you.

[00:04:06]>> Yeah.

[00:04:07]>> Yeah, so that took some ideas out of my head quite quickly.

[00:04:13]>> But but also how much uh pressure did that bring? Like the family you're from, the fact that you're royalty in school, did you feel the pressure to excel and in community? Did you feel the pressure to act in a certain in a certain way just because of who you are or who you were?

[00:04:33]>> Yeah, of course the pressure from the beginning it was always there when the teachers are complaining about children who are going wayward, they would say, "But you can't form part of this group. You know who you are."

[00:04:48]Uh so you are forced in a certain way to uh to behave in accordance to what is expected of you. So the pressure was always there even in terms of performance as as you ask uh to say, "But you know, you need to do better."

[00:05:05]>> Yeah.

[00:05:06]>> Uh because all these people and of course at that point it didn't make sense to me, but the teachers would say, "Years later you're going to be responsible for all these people, so you need to make sure that you are sharp in terms of academics and all of that."

[00:05:22]>> So watching your father, you know, carry out these responsibilities and you knew that it would be you one day. Was it something that you wanted or you felt like you didn't have a choice or you know, it came came naturally for you to say, "I'll do this um myself one day."

[00:05:40]>> I think at at first I I didn't really see myself here. I I saw myself more as a business person somewhere in the urban areas because the thinking was always centered around doing business and and all of that, but because I studied in in Johannesburg, I thought I would really stay there and uh and do business there, but later when I I I think I was doing my post grade, >> Mhm.

[00:06:12]>> you know, I realized that, you know, this Johannesburg thing is not for me.

[00:06:17]I need to go back home because I would be more at peace when I'm here rather than when I'm in Johannesburg.

[00:06:23]So, that's when I I started realizing that all of those ideas of doing businesses there, no, it's not going to work. I must come home.

[00:06:33]>> And then you came home.

[00:06:35]And then you what? And you did what?

[00:06:37]>> [laughter] >> No, remember as as time is nearing, your your parents >> Yeah.

[00:06:44]>> are telling you that uh you know, it's time. Real family members will tell you that, you know, you need to come home.

[00:06:50]And also community members themselves I would be going to go tuck shop or wherever and you you would meet people and they say, "No, no, no, no, we we want you to come back home."

[00:07:03]>> Yeah.

[00:07:04]>> That's when now you get the the intensity, the seriousness of this thing that uh your people are are waiting for you. And you also, I mean, as a young person, you see you right you know, a lot of things are needed, a different perspective and all of that.

[00:07:22]There's quite a bit of responsibility.

[00:07:24]So, for me at the end it came naturally.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah.

[00:07:28]>> Yeah, yeah, you know, I I just had to come home.

[00:07:31]>> Okay. So, what what does your day look like as a Khosi?

[00:07:35]Like on a daily basis, what are your responsibilities?

[00:07:39]Um >> It It depends on what is happening, but obviously as you you are seeing different community members are coming.

[00:07:47]I mean, we just opened about 30 minutes ago. You've seen a couple of people coming into the traditional offices there.

[00:07:56]Uh people who are coming with different issues. Sometimes people will just randomly come and request to see you.

[00:08:03]Uh maybe they can't go to traditional council members because their matter would be sensitive.

[00:08:08]>> Yeah.

[00:08:09]>> Uh sometimes others they don't even know protocol.

[00:08:12]>> Yeah.

[00:08:13]>> They think they can just come and and see you.

[00:08:16]Uh and then other days because you don't only have one village.

[00:08:21]Like last week Friday, we were in a community meeting in Matsepe in in one of our villages there.

[00:08:28]We had to deal with the on the agenda it was the establishment of the community policing forum.

[00:08:35]>> Mhm.

[00:08:35]>> Uh because you see there's a lot of livestock theft, criminal activities.

[00:08:41]So, we started it here in the village in Lutagan.

[00:08:44]Then the members of that community were here and they said, "No, Kosi, you also need to come to us. We are also your children. We need for you to establish this." So, we were there on on a Friday to to establish the community policing forum, but also to just brief the community on a variety of issues. So, on different days it would be a traditional authority meeting whereby now it's on a formal process where different community members, some would be needing land. So, we'll be allocating land.

[00:09:17]And then the other part of of it it will be adjudicating cases.

[00:09:21]>> Yeah.

[00:09:22]>> Remember where human beings are there's always conflict.

[00:09:25]>> Yeah.

[00:09:26]>> Yeah, so you'd be adjudicating those conflicts. Uh you know, different types. Some are very serious in nature whereby you'd find that uh Banabamotho they would be fighting for their family home uh and all of that. Uh so, it it varies in terms of the seriousness of uh of the cases. So, we we do everything. Sometimes you'd be meeting the schools.

[00:09:52]>> Mhm.

[00:09:52]>> Uh we also have programs of visiting the schools whenever the schools open. We would be going there uh with the pastors uh who are in the community to pray for the children.

[00:10:05]So, really it's a lot of things.

[00:10:07]>> Yeah.

[00:10:08]>> Yeah, sometimes you'd be dealing with with business issues that has to do and also developmental issues, of course.

[00:10:15]Dealing with government and so forth.

[00:10:17]So, it's a it's a mixed bag.

[00:10:19]>> So, how does it feel though to carry the frustrations of your community?

[00:10:24]It's like all these different frustrations. Others don't have food.

[00:10:27]Others, you know, it's poverty. It's unemployment. You know, others don't have shelter. How do How does it feel to carry all these frustrations that your people feel?

[00:10:40]>> Yo, it's it's quite heavy to to be honest because you know, it's not like where you're a politician, you live in the city, and you come and see, and then go back to town.

[00:10:51]>> Yeah.

[00:10:51]>> Uh you live with the people on a daily basis. It And it's people you've grown up with. You've seen the poverty all your life. You've seen the frustrations.

[00:11:01]Uh the the lack of trafficable roads and and so forth. So, it's quite heavy, and also it's frustrating uh because the change would not be coming as as quickly as you would want it to be.

[00:11:14]You would know the status of our government and our local municipalities and and so forth. So, it's something quite heavy to carry. But I think you need the the emotional and the spiritual alignment to be able to to carry that. It's not an an easy job.

[00:11:32]That's why you see a lot of the khosi that are stressed.

[00:11:36]And sometimes it would be easy to judge a behavior of of of one khosi, but it's the things are not as as rosy as people sometimes see them.

[00:11:48]>> But khosi, if then that is the case, how come we never see the the khosis, you know, the traditional leaders um leading a march a protest >> protest march >> Mhm.

[00:12:01]>> to government offices cuz you do speak about how government cuz other things really are not up to you like you say.

[00:12:06]>> Yeah.

[00:12:07]>> The potholes, the the the lack of like road infrastructure.

[00:12:11]>> Mhm.

[00:12:11]>> How come it is never then you as leadership who initiate this protest to say, "Let's take it to the people who are failing our people." than carrying than carrying them by yourselves.

[00:12:24]>> Look, it's you know, our institution is it's quite sensitive and a little bit complex.

[00:12:32]And also the age factor, a lot of traditional leaders are from the old era.

[00:12:37]>> Mhm.

[00:12:38]>> So, they wouldn't be easily taking a radical decision to to just do a a protest, but I've seen one for the first time somewhere in Eastern Cape. I think it's in AmaTola.

[00:12:49]>> Mhm.

[00:12:50]>> For the first time I saw traditional leaders marching there. It's the first time in the past 32 years of a democratic dispensation >> Yeah.

[00:12:58]>> seeing traditional leaders march.

[00:13:00]There [snorts] is that discussion informally amongst traditional leaders that we need to take a more bolder step But fortunately, you are seeing a lot more younger traditional leaders coming in who are more uh politically inclined who are a little bit more radical so to say. So, I think in in future you'll start seeing a a more of that because a lot of my peers and even some younger than me who are coming in and they come from a completely different school of thought than the era of my father and his brother and the others and a lot of them are still in the system. Uh and they look at at at Remember they come from that era of the Bantustan and apartheid government here. So, they've got I think to be frank they've got too much respect for government.

[00:13:58]>> Yeah.

[00:13:59]>> Yeah, which it can be to our detriment in you know, in many times.

[00:14:05]>> Yeah, because another thing what I like most about you though is is the fact that you you want to build the the gap to to bridge the gap that exists between traditional leadership and government.

[00:14:20]What are some of the conversations then that you're having and and what do you want to achieve with with with that bridging of the of the gap between these two?

[00:14:31]>> We we are having a variety of conversations with with government. Of course, we would start with the basic issues of basic infrastructure in in rural communities.

[00:14:42]That would be your roads, that would be your housing and electricity and so forth.

[00:14:48]But over and above that we we are we are having discussions on complete land ownership.

[00:14:56]I think that's at the apex of the needs of traditional leaders.

[00:15:01]Remember the 13% that rural people are sitting on. Legislatively it we are still using the old uh law of the 1913 whereby uh during the imperial system whereby the Bantu commissioner is basically virtually the the the owner of the 13% of the land.

[00:15:24]As a community here, even if if you can take a decision on a particular piece of land, you still need to engage the government uh for concurrence and and so forth. So, the current government is still using that law. So, it means that they're still playing uh they're supervisor uh of of black communities and the royalties for that matter, and no, we as traditional leaders, we don't agree with that. I personally in fact, every traditional leader doesn't agree with that. It's It's just completely wrong.

[00:15:58]>> So, why do you not loudly and radically back the EFF when it's calling for land expropriation of land without compensation?

[00:16:06]>> [laughter] >> So, that the land is is brought back to its rightful owners, which is the people.

[00:16:12]>> Yeah, look, the the explanation of loudly, I'm not sure. I mean, it's a relative.

[00:16:18]>> Okay.

[00:16:19]>> Uh it's relative who We are also loudly saying the land must go back to its original owners. I mean, the land was not taken from politicians.

[00:16:30]>> Yeah.

[00:16:30]>> The land was taken from traditional leaders and their communities. When they got to every traditional community, they got there and they fought and most probably killed uh the traditional leaders to get everybody to be in shape.

[00:16:45]>> Yeah.

[00:16:45]>> And they they took the land. So, it's it's a call that we have been making. I would agree that we are not as loud as we should be. I take that we are we are not as loud as we should be, but you also look at the decorum.

[00:16:59]You know, when you are elected, you you look at the people you are leading.

[00:17:05]You don't want to rattle things too much to a point whereby you will scare them and they think you are the problem. So, you have to manage the consciousness that is there.

[00:17:15]>> Yeah.

[00:17:15]>> Yeah.

[00:17:16]>> So, another thing, Hoshi, or maybe before I go there, what what then does it mean for you and your people if the land were to be returned to the to its rightful owners? Does it also mean like, you know, um you know, without compensation? What would you like to see when when the land is is is is there's a redress in in that regard?

[00:17:42]>> Look at white farmers.

[00:17:45]They've got generational wealth.

[00:17:48]That's what it would mean for our people.

[00:17:50]>> Yeah.

[00:17:51]>> Once you've got the land, and not only the 13% we are residing on, the rest of the land that was taken from black people here in the country and in the continent, it would mean complete not only political freedom, but more importantly, economic freedom.

[00:18:08]>> Yeah.

[00:18:09]>> Uh because now we would be able to take that land and utilize it productively. Our people will not be sleeping in shacks uh in Tembisa and and everywhere else.

[00:18:21]They would be in a position to come back home and and produce their own food, and deal with the export market, and and all of that. So, it it would mean you know, not immediately, but the end of poverty at a certain point in time.

[00:18:37]But for now, even if one would estimate where when would the poverty of black people end, uh the one cannot estimate because you you have you don't have the basic resource, which is land.

[00:18:51]>> Yeah.

[00:18:52]>> So, you know, it would mean everything to African people to get the land back.

[00:18:59]>> So, so we came to visit you also, uh Hoshi, because the EFF is turning 13 years on the 25th of July.

[00:19:08]And it was uh its birth was as a result of the aftermath that happened in Marikana.

[00:19:16]A moment that exposed a lot of inequalities between the workers and the and the owners. You know, what does that that that mean for you? Because nothing has changed since then in terms of like the workers and the owners, which is you know, what the EFF is disagreeing with because the mines that are in the Northwest was supposed I suppose to be showing, you know, reflecting in the lives of the people. Yeah, we should you shouldn't be asking that you know, this is a mining province.

[00:19:49]>> Look, I think that moment is is quite special.

[00:19:53]I I still remember the time I was in my flat in Auckland Park. I was studying there.

[00:20:00]>> Yeah.

[00:20:01]>> And I was watching what was happening even when the commander-in-chief was there. I remember I think he was wearing black or something. I was watching the the stuff online.

[00:20:11]Uh, firstly, it it was painful.

[00:20:16]Uh, you know, in terms of what happened to our people there.

[00:20:19]Because if you look at them, remember the the the labor migrant system.

[00:20:25]Uh, majority of those people are coming from rural areas.

[00:20:29]In Eastern Cape, in Mozambique and other areas, uh, even outside the country. So, those are our people. So, it's quite it was quite painful. It's still painful to have seen that people our people died just to say we want a living wage which is 12,500.

[00:20:49]Remember that was the the demand and I think it was the justifiable demand uh, from the workers to say, uh, remember the financial statements are there. We can see how much you are making. When we demand 12,500, it's because we know that you are able to to afford it. Uh so it was not you know a ludicrous or a crazy demand from our people to say, "We want 12,500." But what was their response?

[00:21:19]Uh you know, all those people they killed them.

[00:21:24]Uh the state apparatus they came in and they dealt with our people.

[00:21:29]So I think it's it's a moment that you know, over 100 years from now generations will look at it and say, "Whatever happens, we need to have the courage to fight."

[00:21:43]>> Yeah.

[00:21:43]>> Uh to take our struggle forward. And as you speak about the province, I mean it's a very rich province >> Yeah.

[00:21:51]>> uh in terms of mineral wealth, but driving around even in in Rustenburg and all those places, our people are still poor there.

[00:22:00]>> Yeah.

[00:22:01]>> Uh part of the work that we do with government, we've also been pushing to go to the mining indaba. I think this was our second year to go and speak directly to the mine owners to say, "But guys, you are not even adhering to the social labor plans, which is the basic minimum requirement. So if you are not meeting the basic minimum requirement, then it means even the the discussion of ownership uh in terms of percentage of ownership by the community, when will we have it if you can't tie a road that you have committed through the DMR to do it.

[00:22:38]So it's it's part of the engagement as part of bridging the gap. It's part of the engagements we are taking to government and also the private sector, particularly specifically this this this mining uh houses to say, "Guys, no. We we can't continue as business as usual. Uh we we demand we demand that you you do more for our And also you see a little bit that was done in terms of building the schools.

[00:23:08]But do is it a question of people have to die first in order for those mining houses to build those schools? I don't think that is correct. And also the building of those schools and other infrastructures, you cannot repay the lives that were were taken by the bullet.

[00:23:26]Ownership of the minerals at least the Gariep homeland killed.

[00:23:32]You know, we need to have part ownership of I mean it's not that we don't want business or we don't want private investors, but it can't be that they're eating everything and we are just fighting for crumbs, you know.

[00:23:45]Yeah.

[00:23:46]>> I agree with you, Hoshi. But now, looking at the 13 years of the EFF, what do you think it's uh it's the EFF's biggest achievement?

[00:24:00]>> I don't know because uh maybe I'm not in a position to immediately compare, but there's a couple of them that we can speak about. Firstly, the EFF coming into Parliament, uh it it made a lot of us, both the young and old, uh to have an interest in what Parliament is, what is the business of Parliament, uh and how does it conduct its work. The ability to question the wrong things that are happening. Uh that radical aspect, especially as young people, remember the reason a a lot of young people are attracted to the organization it's because the blood is still boiling, they're impatient, they see that things are going wrong, but everybody else is acting as if it's normal.

[00:24:50]Uh so, what it has done for South Africans in terms of going into Parliament and shaking Parliament and and speaking about uh those who are doing wrong things and and just challenging authority.

[00:25:04]You know, challenging authority is what we have done in this country for the past 300 years. So, I think they took it up a notch when they got into Parliament. But secondly, I think how it has been able to capture the institutions of higher learning where it has been able to attract the sharpest of minds.

[00:25:28]Those who are politically conscious to be able to come up through the ranks and develop them into leaders of their own. Remember there is a lifetime investment. Outside university, that person would in whatever institution he or she would be going into will be able to bring in that consciousness. Will be able to bring in that the spirit of Pan-Africanism and so forth. It's I think it's ideals I personally resonate with.

[00:26:00]But also the one thing because also as a political science student myself, so I I took a lot of interest in the EFF as a I think as a study because as it came out, it's what I was studying already.

[00:26:15]So, I was able to to reflect a lot in in what they are doing. So, also I think what one of the biggest achievements that they have done is what they did during the coalition with with a Mashaba in in Johannesburg where they were able to insource workers.

[00:26:39]I think that is quite important. And it's personal because the security guards that are working there the cleaners that are working there a lot of them it's people who left our villages to go and rent in shacks in Johannesburg.

[00:26:55]So, the ability to insource them you know, there will be they will be the ripple effect because most probably their children are here in the village.

[00:27:04]So, if you bring them directly into the municipality and into institutions of higher learning, it means that a child from the village now has the privilege to go and study for free inside UJ or vets or or whatever. So, it's for me it's one of the lifetime uh achievements, but also something that that is also quite personal to me is that our society uh has been dumbed down a lot.

[00:27:37]>> Yeah.

[00:27:37]>> The consciousness levels are are too low.

[00:27:41]>> Yeah.

[00:27:41]>> So, I think EFF has closed that gap uh to bring back that consciousness to say you are African, you need to be proud of yourself as an African. I remember uh what they did with Clicks.

[00:27:56]>> Yeah.

[00:27:56]>> Yeah, that story of Clicks or the the issue of the hair and whatnot. So, I think EFF you know, that one of the lifetime achievement is that they're consistently fighting for black people. Even somebody who doesn't vote for EFF, whenever the the boss or the white man >> Yeah.

[00:28:14]>> start mistreating them, they'll say "It's all because of Malema. It's all because of EFF." So, or you know, it is giving our people pride.

[00:28:22]>> Yeah.

[00:28:22]>> Uh it's something that is there for for everybody to see that it has given our people pride and you know, it's it's a lifetime achievement that then you can you can take it anywhere. People have got the courage and the spirit to fight.

[00:28:38]>> No, so you believe it's a it's a force to be reckoned with.

[00:28:40]>> Of course.

[00:28:43]Of course. Uh if you look at the dynamics, it's a it's a force to be reckoned with. It has awakened our people.

[00:28:50]Uh it just have to keep going because a lot of people look at the in in our province. If you look at the statistics, >> Yeah.

[00:28:59]>> for the past two terms, they've been the official opposition.

[00:29:02]>> Yeah.

[00:29:03]>> So, it tells you that a large portion of people in Northwest, they do believe uh in the organization.

[00:29:11]They believe it it it stands for what they believe in. So, it's a force to be reckoned with, definitely.

[00:29:18]>> Hoshie, thank you very much for your time. Even though you didn't want to play 30 seconds.

[00:29:22]>> No, no.

[00:29:23]>> [laughter] >> What, were you scared I'm going to >> Yeah, I'll just embarrass myself.

[00:29:28][laughter] So, no, I will leave it to others.

[00:29:31]>> Okay, but also, what is your message to the EFF as returning 13 um this coming weekend?

[00:29:38]>> You know, the the question of the age, 13. Remember, you are as a child you you are entering the >> Yeah.

[00:29:46]>> Yeah.

[00:29:47]>> So, it's not uh a normal birthday. It's a little bit different to to others. So, it it it it says as as a parent, you need to reflect on the stage that the child is going into, the preparation.

[00:30:03]>> Mhm.

[00:30:03]>> Uh you know, some of the mistakes that we would just say are No, it's just a child.

[00:30:08]You would not look at that now. You're you're a teen. In in in African terms, you need to prepare a teen. So, that they would be able to manage the second transition of of their life. So, I think it's quite an important uh moment uh for the EFF.

[00:30:27]Uh we are happy that it's growing. It's maturing. We even see uh even with the change of strategies, not that the first one was a wrong. But remember, as human beings, you are consistently uh you know, adapting to new dynamics and all of that.

[00:30:44]>> So, we are happy to see the EFF grow. We are happy to see it part of the South African political life. As I said, it's giving a lot of our people courage. We wish it the best.

[00:30:57]We wish it that it engages more on how government is is doing its work. It holds people accountable more. But, I'm also happy that gradually it's starting to govern.

[00:31:12]>> Yeah.

[00:31:13]>> Because that transition is important.

[00:31:15]>> Yeah.

[00:31:15]>> Of criticism, but getting to the space of of governing. So, I'm happy to see it governing. I saw Dungay in in in Gauteng, who's now the Treasury MEC.

[00:31:29]We want to see more of that because we want to see ideas of young people more in government. Remember, statistically when you look at representation, EFF is the one that is just consistently bringing young people into a space of of governance.

[00:31:47]As young people, we want to see a governance a government that reflects us.

[00:31:52]>> Yeah.

[00:31:52]>> It can't just be old people. We're not saying old people must not be there.

[00:31:56]>> Mhm.

[00:31:57]>> But, the majority of South Africans are young people. Even the continent is the youngest. We've got the youngest people in the world. So, our government must reflect the majority. If we are to speak about the >> democrats.

[00:32:10]>> So, EFF is doing that voluntarily. We are happy to see that. In in the next phase of its life, we we wish to see more of that happening. So, we wish it the best.

[00:32:27]But, seriously, and make sure that the leadership is always united. From a branch level to of course uh the Winnie Mandela House.

[00:32:39]Uh that unity is is is quite important.

[00:32:43]We are fragmented a a lot as as African people. So, any institution that would unite African people one would immediately support it and it's one of those institutions that are uniting African people to say uh we are one and there's a minimum program of action that we must undertake. The question of land, the question of minerals, the question of education that we didn't speak about.

[00:33:11]Uh it EFF, you know, they came with this thing to say we are making it education fashionable.

[00:33:19]Uh and that is important for children in rural areas because the literacy levels uh are still down. So, we wish you guys all the best in the celebrations in Thohoyandou over the weekend and yeah, we wish to see you grow.

[00:33:34]The Oliver Tambo Naledi Local >> And when you lead those matches, we'll be behind you.

[00:33:40]>> [laughter] >> Thank you.

[00:33:41]>> Thank you very much, comrade.

[00:33:42]>> No, okay. We will finish.