Nolan Wells, Missing Black Children, and America’s Crisis of Justice |

[00:00:00]Heat.

[00:00:10][music] Heat.

[00:00:34]>> [music] [music] >> Heat.

[00:01:00]Heat.

[00:01:04][music] >> [music] [music] >> Welcome back to the other side of change only on the Blackar [music] Network. My name is Jamira Burley and as always I'm joined by my brilliant co-host Bria Baker. Today's episode is a hard one but one we have to do.

[00:01:33]>> Mhm. Yeah. We're talking about black boys and black deaths and black children not getting their childhood.

[00:01:39]Specifically, a country that keeps finding new ways to make black families beg for basic answers for the ability to grow old together. And this week, that conversation starts with the 18-year-old Nolan Wells.

[00:01:52]>> Yeah. Nolan Wells went on a boat with friends in the 4th of July and out to, I believe it's Horn Island off the Mississippi coast. He was the only black person in this group. He never made it back to shore with them. Days later, his body was recovered on the island.

[00:02:07]>> His family, supported by attorney Ben Crump, Reverend Al Sharpton, and millions around the country, have been begging for a transparent investigation ever since. Because the story just keeps shifting, and because there's still no real answers for why he was left behind on the island, why his phone was never found with him, what happened in those missing hours. Like, we're we're still looking for all of that.

[00:02:28]>> Yeah. And Nolan case doesn't just exist in isolation, right? In the last year alone, we've seen disturbing numbers of black and brown people found hanging from trees in public places. From Mississippi to Georgia to New York, each one quickly labeled a suicide. Each one leaving families and communities with more questions than peace.

[00:02:45]>> Right. Um and it's not to say that mental health in the black community, but but the specifics of black people hanging from trees um at this time when white supremacy is on the rise needs to be really addressed and the quickness to label it suicide. But, you know, at the same time, thousands of black children and adults missing every single year with almost no media coverage at all.

[00:03:06]Even in the Nolan Wells case, traditional media spaces have not been covering it. And, you know, there's this underlying truth that black life is too often treated as disposable. Black death is often treated as unremarkable.

[00:03:18]>> Yeah. And to your point, rarely do the missing and harmed of black children go reported in local news, let alone national news. Um, and so today we're asking the question, what does it mean to live and die black in a country that was never built for black life? And what do we owe each other in order to find the type of justice that we seek? We all are responsible for seeking that justice.

[00:03:41]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:42]>> But first, the headlines.

[00:03:44]>> Child, it has been such a whirlwind.

[00:03:47]>> It's been a hot mess.

[00:03:48]>> It's a hot mess. So, we're >> retrograde, girl. Everything is bad.

[00:03:52]>> Well, I'm Listen, I'm not mad at summer retrograde. like, you know, retrograde came and took Lindsey Graham and I'm like, well, >> no, my my Virgo brain is is on steroids right now. So, I I get it. But, but, you know, they do take the evil with them.

[00:04:05]>> Yes. Yes, they do. And so, Lindsey Graham is no longer with us. And so, that that would have been one story, but then he was quickly replaced by his sister, which is not a politician, who has never served in any government role. She has no qualifications for this job. This is not like Bill Clinton dies and people are suggesting Hillary Clinton who also has her own career in this space regardless of whether you agree with those politics. This person has no career in politics to agree with or disagree with.

[00:04:37]We don't know what her experience is because she don't got none. but she has just been installed as the senator um replacing replacing um her brother and it is just mindboggling um because I wanted to come up here and talk about [snorts] you know the the allegations of of this homophobic senator um having sexual relationships with queer trans people across his career and like the the hypocrisy of that. Now, I got to be more mad at the nepotism of it all because why are we not doing an immediate special election allowing the people to choose who they want their replacement to be? Why does his sister with no qualification get to do that? And so, I think this dem American democracy is slipping more and more away and and the you know, the veil in the mask is coming off more and more.

[00:05:25]>> Oh, absolutely. I was so flabbergasted.

[00:05:28]one um in regards to how Democrats have been coming out in droves feeling like they have to give their condolences to a man who literally was advocating for harm to to people that look like them.

[00:05:41]Um to the Democratic party as a whole, right? Continue to perpetuate and support and uplift Donald Trump's fascist regime. Um all of this is happening, right? So it I think a lot of folks online was extremely disappointed at some of the leaders of the Democratic party who always feel like they have to present some level of moral high ground while at the same time not actually advocating and promoting issues that are directly impacting the communities that got them into office. So that's frustrating in itself. But also then to hear that Lindsey Graham's sister has inherited his role in the Senate is bonkers. To your point, she has no legislative experience. She was not elected into office by the voters of that state. And >> that's a monarchy inherent.

[00:06:21]>> I remember like literally tweeting or putting on threads that like I I don't know any industry, any business that hires your sister as your replacement when you die outside of the family business. And this is not the family business. Um so I I I am annoyed at best, but it's a way for the the Republican party to try to keep a stronghold on their very um slight hold on the House and Senate. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's very disappointing for me to see so many Democrats coming out giving these anecdoted experiences about how Lindsey Graham wasn't racist in that moment, wasn't sexist, wasn't xenophobic in that moment, but that is his character. And we've seen that by his not by what he not by just what he says, but also how he votes. And that impacts millions of Americans across this country. And I'm I'm sick and tired of us pretending that we have that we have to say something. Silence.

[00:07:18]Silence was an option. Silence as it goes. Yeah, >> I'm so with you on that. I do think that the the rush to eulogize people who were monstrous and evil and callous in life. Um, also speaks to something that Dr. King said about the moderates. Um, they care more about civility and the illusion of peace, >> the actual justice that would bring us true peace. And so, you know, they'll they'll talk about how this country is so dis, you know, disunityity, disunityity. We're, you know, we have so much to work on and and and their answer to that is to reach across the aisle and and have no need for accountability or anything at all.

[00:07:59]>> Um, it's it's mind-blowing, but yeah, you know, that's the country that we live in and and it it it shows that um yeah, this democracy is not what they claim it to be.

[00:08:09]>> Yeah. So before I go into my um my first article of the day is I I heard a I I saw a Tik Tok this morning and and the woman said the issue of immigration is a paper issue, not a crim a criminal issue, right? And I think that alludes to the frustration that a lot of us have had watching so many recent deaths of unarmed um immigrants in this country being tackled and abused by ICE agents. and it has resulted in multiple deaths, but two most recently, which triggered the ACLU releasing a new report documenting a widespread um kind of policy or or code of conduct that continues to perpetuate ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers um perpetuate ICE where over out of reviewing I think close to um 1,200 immigration enforcement operations involving ICE since Trump got into office in 2025, they noticed that more than half of them have resulted in um lethal or um aggressive force and violent force that is just so unnecessary when you're talking about something that is a paper issue, an issue of papers versus a criminal issue.

[00:09:20]Right? We've seen police officers escort school shooters out with more civility, with more care, with more consideration than the way that they have thrown parents, teachers, nurses to the ground. the way that they have shot into cars, shot into homes, broken into people's communities.

[00:09:39]And I think this speaks to the level of aggression that the Trump administration continues to perpetuate on to the immigration, the immigrant community um around like this ma this idea of mass deportation and around this idea that immigrants are somehow these dangerous people and yet we show more kindness to some of the most heinous criminals in our society. Um, and I think this speaks to like the xenophobia that exists, right? Um, and it's just a reminder that we all have a duty to film, to play witness when we see violence like this occurs in our communities because that's the only way we'll know because we're we're learning more and more that ICE is not reporting this to the general public, >> right? Yeah. It's actually the lack of transparency over ICE is so mindboggling because it is a new invention to me.

[00:10:27]It's, you know, like we have our critiques at the Pentagon. It's like the Pentagon's been around so long that it's like they they just have their own culture in there. ICE is younger than both of us having this conversation and most of our viewers. Um ICE is a 21st century invention and agency. It has not been around longer than three decades.

[00:10:46]And yet they move with so much impunity.

[00:10:49]Um so like as if they as if they're like some secret society underground like militia for for the US government. It's very alarming. we all need to be concerned. And to your point, because it's a paperwork issue, um, but but they're not allowing it to be brought to a a proper judicial system and process, that means that anyone can be accused of not having the right paperwork and they're going to brutalize you and ask questions later.

[00:11:18]>> Oh, absolutely. We've seen we've seen that happen to US citizens, people who have presented papers and still they've been treated with a level of disrespect and just disdain. um that is only continuing to increase. Like the fact that ICE is even walking around with guns just doesn't make sense to me.

[00:11:35]>> It's crazy. And I just it's so important that we remember that because I think there are some people listening who still think of this as not their issue because they're like, well, you know, I'm dealing with this over here. And listen, I understand there are a lot of competing priorities, but whether it was going to affect you or not, we should care. But it will affect you. Be clear.

[00:11:55]like it will affect you and people who look like you because migrants look like us.

[00:12:01]>> Like there's no one look to like there we you know so anyway h that is just really devastating [snorts] um kind of unrelated but somewhat related Mitch McConnell. Um, you know, I think when Lindsey Graham's death was announced, a lot of people were like, "Hm, now we've been waiting on the announcement about Mitch McConnell, who's been um disappearing acts for the last like how long, over a month now." Um, we recently just got a picture that the internet is like, I am very suspect about. Um, and I just think it it speaks to again, we have this aging populace. We've got 90 and 80 year old senators and and judges and com, you know, people in cabinets and it's alarming to think that these people could die at any point um of natural causes, not because they're under attack. And then like we have we're left in the balance of having these seats empty and being filled by random sisters and next of kin like >> we need to get a hold on this. So, you know, the Mitch McConnell situation tied to Lindsey Graham has definitely been pushing I believe AFC has been pushing Congress to reconsider um more regulation around term limits and from a place of agism but from a place of like national security actually.

[00:13:22]>> Absolutely. I mean because there's no other industry where you can disappear for weeks and months without without notifying your bosses about what the hell is happening in your life, right?

[00:13:31]like you don't have to go into the details, but the voters of his state deserves answers for why he's not showing up for votes, why he's not showing up to advocate and represent the interests of his state. Um, so I don't let me not lie, I don't care what's happening with that man, but what I do care about is a level of transparency, right?

[00:13:48]>> And I think that to the American people, not just the the voters of his state. If you hold public office, you have a duty to inform those who got you into office what the hell is going on. And I think that is a legitimate ask. And every industry, every job you've ever had, you could not take off on more than a few days without notifying your job. Like being >> especially from the public, especially from the Republican party that demanded tax returns and birth certificates and all sorts of things from President Obama, from Vice President Harris, um that that you know maligned Joe Biden's health for for months and months and months. I mean, and it he was also but you can't be hypocritical. If you're going to say he's too old and he's declining, then look in the mirror at what's going on over there with y'all.

[00:14:35]Y'all are old and declining as well. And and whether you're technically alive, Mitch McConnell, in that picture or whether that picture is doctorred or whatever the case may be, the the fact that you are not, as you said, Jira, able to do your job, get to vote and and represent the American people means that you are not fit, literally fit to serve.

[00:14:54]>> Couldn't agree more. A lot of these people are not fit to serve, including um Marco Rubio. Um the self-hating Secretary of State Marco Rubio has launched an Antifa summit that took place at the State Department, which is rising concerns all over the place because we know that Donald Trump wants to crack down on left-wing groups. Um and for those who do not know, anti- um Antifa is anti-fascism.

[00:15:19]That's what it means. That's that's and there's no organization. There's no organ there's no one organization that is anti-fascism that is Antifa. But the Trump administration wants to continue to label these folks as extremists. and they hosted a um summit with 65 countries on um the um on trying to crack down Antifa um far-right political terrorists who they label as far-right political terrorists when really these are individuals that are seeking to ensure that their government does not become a fascist government and does not enable for um kind of these far-ight organizations to get more stronghold in the political process that alienates those who are marginalized and are suffering the Um, but again, this is a prime example of the Donald Trump doing work that does not need to happen versus actually focus on what would improve the conditions the the living conditions of American citizens and get us out of these forever wars. Um, it's it's it's laughable at this point, but I'm I have low expectations for this administration.

[00:16:20]>> Oh, yes. So low. Because that the fact that they are anti- Antifa means that they have admitted to being fascist. So exactly >> what they have just admitted.

[00:16:30]>> Um and you know every week it's just a new reminder of how much is in flux politically, geopolit geopolitically um under this Trump administration.

[00:16:40]>> Yeah, it's bonkers. It's bonkers. Um so we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back to dive deep into the topic for the day. But as a reminder, you are watching the other side of change only on the Blackar Network.

[00:16:52][music] Heat. Heat.

[00:16:57][music] >> [music] [music] >> They've been trying to erase black political [music] power since reconstruction. Now the Supreme Court is helping them finish the job. First came Shelby County versus Holder in 2013. The [music] ruling that gutted the Voting Rights Act. Then came Bernovich in 2021.

[00:17:30]Another ruling, another piece torn away.

[00:17:33]Now comes Cal, the case civil [music] rights leaders warned could the last major federal protection against racial vote delusion. And within [music] days, Tennessee eliminated its only majority black congressional district.

[00:17:46]Louisiana, South [music] Carolina, Alabama, the same strategy is spreading across the South. The old Jim Crow used pole taxes and literacy [music] tests.

[00:17:56]The new Jim Crow uses gerrymandered maps, voter role purges, polling place closures, and court rulings that [music] make black communities politically invisible. 1965 was Freedom Summer. This is Freedom [music] Summer 2.0 because they are still trying to erase black political power. And we [music] will not bow.

[00:18:21]Heat.

[00:18:30]Heat.

[00:18:33][music] [music] >> [music] >> Welcome back to the other side of change only on [music] the Blackar Network. Um, let's start with what we actually know about Nolan WS. On Jul July 4th, Nolan Ws went to Horn Island with a group of friends, all of whom were white. And at some point during the afternoon, his friends allegedly left the island without him. Mind you, this island is uninhabitable. Um, please go look up pictures. It is It's not some place you want to leave someone who you call your friend. Hours later, his mother got a call from one of those friends telling her that Nolan was missing.

[00:19:23]>> Yeah. Christine, Nolan's mother, she posted on social media in the middle of the night begging for help. Um, they didn't have access to a boat. So, a search effort followed involving the Jackson County Sheriff's Department, the Coast Guard, and volunteer groups like the United Cinjun Navy, which is black le. Um Nolan's body was eventually found in the water off the island two days later.

[00:19:42]>> Yeah. And authorities have said that they don't suspect foul play and believe Nolan drowned. But his family and attorneys have pointed out the the glaring inconsistencies that we've gotten in the contradicting stories from witnesses, from people who were on the trip, inconsistent accounts of whether he stayed on the island by choice, why didn't he have his phone, and how a strong swimmer and athlete ended up drowning under a still is still uncertain and um the circumstances are unknown.

[00:20:10]>> Yeah. And this distrust is not just, you know, coming from nowhere. This is generations of black families in Mississippi specifically, but across the South who are being told to accept an official story without any real investigation behind it, and it doesn't add up.

[00:20:24]>> Yeah. And that's the real tension, right? We're not here to declare what happened to Nolan Wilds. No one has the right to um to supersede that investigation, right? That investigation enables for the real work to come out.

[00:20:36]The problem is a lot of assumptions are made before an act. A lot of assumptions are made by the authorities and by those who are with oftentimes the victim that are that supersedes a full investigation which is where the frustration for many people come from. We are here to say that the family deserves a thorough and transparent process not a rush conclusion especially to what Bria said not keeping in mind the larger context of how often black black people black children go missing and the harm that follows them.

[00:21:06]>> Right? because that's that's the backdrop that this case is all unfolding at um you know in front of it makes it so much harder to sit with that over the past year there's just been this disturbing string which J mentioned earlier of black and brown men found hanging from trees in public spaces across the country.

[00:21:24]>> Yeah. I mean just last September a 21-year-old Trey Reed a student at Delta State University in Mississippi was found hanging from a tree near campus pickle ball courts. authorities ruled as suicide, but civil rights advocates push for a deeper investigation given Mississippi specific history with lynching. And I'm sorry, I don't Black people do not hang themselves from trees.

[00:21:44]>> That is not a thing.

[00:21:46]>> Nope. Not at all. Not with again with that history of lynching in >> and in Mississippi.

[00:21:52]>> There are different ways. I mean, again, we could talk about mental health in other conversations, but the idea that black people in Mississippi are just like rolling them or or or anywhere in this country are rolling themselves up into mats, are hanging themselves from trees. I mean, it's not happening. Even February of this year, 21-year-old was found hanging from a tree in Cot County, Georgia. That's not far from where I live after he was reported missing. His death was also ruled a suicide with no evidence of foul play, but local officials themselves acknowledge how historically loaded the imagery was and how they found him.

[00:22:23]>> Yeah. And this past month, a young man named Dominique um Alexander was found hanging from a tree in upper Manhattan.

[00:22:30]>> Yeah.

[00:22:31]>> One of several similar cases reported from New York to California in recent weeks. This is not normal.

[00:22:36]>> Yeah, >> it's not.

[00:22:37]>> It's not. And when body after body is found the same way in the same kind of public space and each case is closed just as quickly as the last, communities are going to ask hard questions. And that's not paranoia. That's not a dismissal of mental health conversations because we do talk about that struggle about what black men are up against and how it needs to be taken seriously. But again, this is the memory of us saying >> when when we struggle with mental health, we we navigate it differently.

[00:23:01]Hanging ourselves from trees, I I just no, I'm with you. It's not what we do.

[00:23:06]>> Yeah. Because trees in this country is not just a tree, right? Not when the nation's history includes thousands of undocumented and documented lynchings, many of whom were never prosecuted. Many of them treated like by local authorities exactly the way that we're seeing today with no urgency, no transparency, closed case. And I also wanted to mention that many of those documented lynchings were done in collaboration with local law enforcement. They are not off the hook.

[00:23:30]They often times participated and participated in the act itself but also in the cover up.

[00:23:36]>> Yeah. Exactly. Enabled all aspects of it. And so that's that leads to this crisis that we're in now is that because we have this this this legacy and this culture and this history of black death being so normalized, being enabled and covered up by the people we're supposed to entrust our our safety with and and and all of that. There's this crisis now where missing black people and missing black young people in particular are rarely if ever covered to the point where an organization had to be started by black parents. Um I believe they was the inception story of the missing and black foundation.

[00:24:12]>> Yeah. And the numbers are staggering. I mean black people make up more than 40% of the missing person cases in the United States according to the national crime information center data despite being 14% of the population. Um, and we're seeing this not just in red states, but we're seeing this across the board where black children are going missing in broad daylight and the lack of investigation and care because many of these kids are labeled as runaways, which does not prompt an investigation.

[00:24:37]And they're labeled as runaways just because they got into one argument with their parent three months ago. Like, be for real when we're talking about having some level of concern because even if a child is truly a runaway, that doesn't mean that the system abandons them.

[00:24:52]>> Yes. the child going out into the ethos, right, into the world. There's some times where I'm a grown person, I don't even feel safe walking down the street.

[00:24:59]And the idea that because a child >> potentially have decided to like leave means that we shouldn't care and and have some consideration for trying to get them back safely.

[00:25:08]>> Yeah, that's something I interviewed um representatives from the Missing and Black Foundation a while back and they had mentioned that this this quickness to say, "Well, are you sure they're not just out with friends? Are you sure?"

[00:25:18]and it delays precious hours when they should be searching. And even and and again, as you said, even if they are quote unquote runaways, that does not mean that the place they're running away into is a safe space for them and that loved ones don't deserve support. Um, but yeah, you know, black children alone account for roughly a third or more of missing minor cases nationally. And yet, study after study has found that missing black children receive just a fraction of the media coverage that missing white children do.

[00:25:42]>> Yeah. And that's what advocates and researcher calls missing white women syndrome, right? the tendency of the national news to obsess themselves over certain missing white women and girls while missing black women, men, and children barely get registered in headlines. Um, and and we can also see this in shows like SNAP or um Missing like right these documentaries that are made about white women and white children going missing and the level of coverage that they receive during a I mean before, during and after are never shows itself in black community.

[00:26:14]That's why organizations like the Black and Missing Foundation have to exist because families couldn't call local news stations to return their calls because law enforcement was quicker to label their teenagers uh as as you know delinquent or runaways or whatever instead of activating the same alerts and resources that are given to any uh their peers who are white.

[00:26:32]>> Yeah. And so think about what that means for you, right? If you're a black family who child goes missing, um you're not just fighting to find them. You're fighting to be believed. You're finally to be seen. you're finding you're fighting to really be your child to be worthy of a search um in the first place.

[00:26:48]>> Yeah. And that's the throughine of of what we've talked about um so far in this episode. Whether it's a a a young child who drowned under questionable circumstances, men found hanging in parks with investigations closed almost overnight or thousands of missing black people that the media simply doesn't cover. The common denominator is a country that has never fully built its systems to protect, search for, or seek justice for black life. And so we, you know, we always say we keep us safe and so we do it. Um, and that's excited for to we're not excited, but we we need to continue the conversation. We need to um amplify the families ask for support and we also need to not let ourselves get carried away. There's a little true crime obsession um sometimes to things that that turns a real Exactly. real family search into into something that is like I want to crack the case. And it's like remember this like the mother and me. I'm just like, I can't imagine needing night's help to understand what happened to my son. And that's what this is about. A mother who needs our help to figure out what happened to her son.

[00:27:50]>> Absolutely. So, we're going to take a quick break, but we are excited for our next guests who have used this platform, actually built a platform on elevating and talking about the stories that mainstream media oftentimes don't report or get wrong. So, we're going to take a quick quick break and as a reminder, you're watching the other side of change only on the Blackar Network.

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[00:29:35][music] >> [music] [music] >> Welcome back to the other side of change only on the Black Star Network. [music] So, we have the most special of guests today um to help us with this really somber conversation, but we're still so excited to have him, Kevin Ortega Roas.

[00:30:08]Kevin is an Afro Latino writer, podcaster, and the founder of Here's Why with Kevin Ortega Roas through Instagram, Substack, Threads, and more.

[00:30:16]Kevin reaches well over a million followers with his nuanced curation of the most important social and political news that is often not covered.

[00:30:23]Specializing in social issues like politics, immigration, and LGBTQ issues.

[00:30:28]um having been a rapid response reporter for GLAAD, Kevin also hosted the advocate weekly, a queer news podcast produced by the advocate magazine and his work has been featured in publications like into query Romecla and Native Son. We're so grateful to Kevin for his reporting on the Nolan Wells family and to have him with us today.

[00:30:45]So, thanks Kevin for joining us on the show.

[00:30:48]>> Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be with you.

[00:30:50]>> It's such a pleasure. I'm such a huge fan of your work. Um I feel like most of my news comes from you because I hear about it first. Um, and I'm like, wait, wait, this can't be real. Um, and then I go and do, you know, my stalking as I as I do as a Virgo. I am super honored to have we're super honored to have you on the show especially because as I mentioned earlier um you oftentimes report stories that do not get national news before they get national news and talk about the nuance of topics that I think is hopefully enabling for all of us to start seeing the through lines that these issues are not living in silos that oftent times are perpetuated by a system and by a group of people who are intent in um you know uh harming black and brown folks that are intent of um limiting our rights as citizens. So um hopefully this conversation um hopefully what you can bring to the conversation will enable for our viewers to gain a deeper understanding of what's happening. And I want to start broad when we when we think about cases like Nolan Wells or the recent hanging deaths across the country or the missing black children that are happening in places like my hometown Philadelphia to places like Chicago. From your reporting, what do you think um typically goes wrong first? both with how law enforcement responds, but also the lack of media coverage in those stories.

[00:32:06]>> Um, I think that it starts with the media. Um, I personally just see that like the media has such a big role to play in how the world responds to certain situations, including law enforcement. Um, and so I do believe that a lack of media coverage is what leads even local law enforcement to not take cases seriously. And then that delay leads to families never getting answers for what happened to their loved ones. Mhm.

[00:32:40]>> Um, I did a I did a Substack essay uh when Nolan Wells was first reported missing about the lack of media coverage to his story.

[00:32:48]>> And I spotlighted like how this situation, if there's anything to learn from it, proves how much local news really matters because it is small local newsrooms that make stories like this catch fire so that there can be some sort of fight for justice, for answers.

[00:33:07]And there's one case that always sticks with me of this uh young 22-year-old black woman uh who disappeared at eight months pregnant and was never found.

[00:33:19]This was February 2024. And that sticks with me because I just can't imagine her family and going, you know, from the the joy and excitement of welcoming a new life into the family to losing that as well as the the the the young woman that you were raising. Um I felt so badly for uh her father. And so with a case like that, I'm like, how do we never >> It's been two and a half years. How do we never figure out what happened?

[00:33:50]>> Yeah.

[00:33:50]>> You know. Yeah. So the cases like that are just devastating to me.

[00:33:56]>> Yeah. And I think to your point, it's because there's like no closure, but it's also just like after so long, you really found nothing. And I think it begs the question of just like what are these law enforcement agencies doing and what what resources are they actually lobbying? And sometimes I do wonder if our expectations are skewed because of the true crime television and we think that investigators are investing more energy across the board. But but just for families who are going through this in real time, what does an actual thorough trustworthy investigation look like? What should that look like versus what they actually get?

[00:34:32]I think what families actually get is what we're seeing happen with Nolan Wells in the age of digital media is when someone first goes missing. Like I know last night there was a young black girl who was reported missing near Knoxville, Tennessee.

[00:34:48]>> Yeah.

[00:34:48]>> And that is what families have to do immediately is turn to social media. And what happens is either social media ignores it or the polar opposite is that it becomes this like frenzy of like misinformation um because everyone is now there's too many cooks in the kitchen and everyone is trying to play a part. Um and typically that only happens with stories that the internet deems juicy enough to care about unfortunately. Um, and so I think what needs to happen is that these investigations need to stay local. Um, and they need to be hyperfocused on real information. Uh, I just think there there has to be a middle ground before we get to social media. I know that it's really important in the early stages, but I think we need to I don't know what everyone's opinion is about uh in regard to law enforcement.

[00:35:42]Uh but I think that if we're going to turn to law enforcement, uh I think we need to have some sort of trust in those systems. Otherwise, I'm not sure why we turn to them. I think we should start working on an alternative to finding our loved ones when they get lost.

[00:35:58]>> Uh no, absolutely.

[00:35:59]>> As someone as someone who is not an expert in missing person's cases, right?

[00:36:04]Um these are stories that I cover and and I see, but so many of them have the same end result. So, I can't tell you from my own perspective what a good investigation should look like, but I can point out where they go wrong. And it's typically when the family loses control of the story and it becomes a narrative that everyone else is running with.

[00:36:26]>> Yeah. No, that's so true. I feel like the thou the hundreds that we've seen reported online like in our flag through like social media post, I can only imagine the ones that don't make it to social media because their families are just not sophisticated enough to post it online, right? Or that their story, to your point, isn't juicy enough for folks to care about it or for it to gain traction. Um, and I think that's one of the most frustrating things about stories like Nolan because imagine if the family hadn't said anything and they just took the word of his friends as that they left him on an island randomly, which I don't know any friends, my friends wouldn't do that.

[00:37:01]But the inconsistencies, the disparities that we continue to see in regards to the timeline or the red flags, right, that are coming from these young people's stories or the stories of the attorneys. Um, what have been some of the disparities or the the red flags that you've seen in the timeline in your own reporting so far?

[00:37:20]>> I think because there's been so much so many updates updates I I say because they're coming from people and sources that we can't 100% verify.

[00:37:34]>> It's become very muddied. Uh, and so I know that last night CBS released a report um where they used GPS data that was given to them uh by a uh official department in Mississippi that has to do with uh the the waters down there, you know, how boats travel uh forgetting the name of that agency, but they provided them with the GPS data of how that boat moved. And so they confirmed, you know, the boat left uh Ocean Springs at 9:56 a.m. They arrived at the island at 11:10 a.m. They left the island at 4:31 p.m.

[00:38:12]Uh so it that data does verify what the group of, you know, young men are saying about what time they left the island.

[00:38:21]I'm curious to know how they're going to prove that Nolan was not on that boat.

[00:38:26]Um, and if they can prove that, >> I'm still not sure how anyone is accounting for the fact that they're saying they last saw Nolan at 300 p.m.

[00:38:38]and they left the island at 4:31 p.m. it this is not you know I I'm not sure if anyone has like looked at Google images of you know Horn Island or watched the videos >> like this isn't Cancun you know this isn't like >> everyone is this is a sandbar it's called an island but it's a sandbar it's not huge right so you can do that lap where was Nolan in the 90 minutes between when you're claiming you last saw him and when you actually left the island cuz 90 minutes is a lot of time especally Like I know you know people who work in media always joke that like that 30 second break that you get 30 seconds is a lot of time. So 90 minutes is a lot of time. So where was he?

[00:39:23]>> Yeah. And to your point too I think that's one of the most frustrating things is why did y'all have his phone?

[00:39:29]Why did you have his phone now that there was things taken away from his phone or stuff like that?

[00:39:34]>> I don't think it's insane because I've again and this is something that I need to be 100% sure about. I would say I'm about 90% sure, but I've seen that his best friend Javon also left the island.

[00:39:48]He was on a different boat, but he also left his phone with Nolan's phone on the other boat. Like I I don't think it's I personally do not think it's crazy that everyone >> apparently leaves their phone over on the boats.

[00:40:03]>> Yeah.

[00:40:04]>> You know, when I go to the beach, I do hide my phone in like a bag and leave it somewhere so the sun doesn't kill it. So like >> Yeah. I I'm curious to know why what when did they notice that they had it?

[00:40:15]>> Yeah, >> that now that is the that is a big question. And you know, I had seen um some of the snippets from Christine's interview and and also some of your um your coverage because you've been at a lot of these presses. You've had conversations with the family and so seeing your quotes that come from it and she had said on multiple occasions that she did not get the phone back immediately. And then she also had to clarify something that was said earlier that that she had to inqu like she had to reach out to to ultimately get his things back that it wasn't like someone you know was like hey we have his stuff we haven't been able to get in touch with so here it is like like she had to go chasing after some of his things is that did I misunderstand that or >> so Christine Wley Nolan's mother tracks Nolan via Life 360 which is a GPS app.

[00:41:06]>> And so when she checked Nolan's Life 360 location, it showed that he was somewhere else. It showed that he was on land, but it showed that he was somewhere else. I'm not certain. Like, she has not clarified where it said she was. It could be that like it showed him on a random street and she's not sure, you know, what it was saying. Um, but >> so Nolan's friend Warren was the one who called Christine at 11:07 p.m. that night, according to her, and said, "Have you heard from Nolan? No one has seen him, and he's not with us."

[00:41:39]>> And then, that friend also is the one who called the Coast Guard reportedly.

[00:41:46]>> Christine then reached out to her friend whose son uh Jaylen is Nolan's best friend. Her son said, "I haven't seen Nolan. The last time I saw him was on the island. He's not with me." He said, "Let me check his Snapchat location because they all share their locations on Snapchat." So then he checked and it said that it was at someone's house. And so when he looked at the location, not only was Nolan, I don't know if anyone is familiar with like the Snapchat map and what it looks like, >> uh, but like it shows you on a map and it shows like your avatar. And so what he and his mother said is that when they looked at the map, it was not just Nolan, but it was like a bunch of people were in this one concentrated area. So then they traveled to that house and they knocked on the door and that is when they learn like that's when they got the phone. Um, and so I don't think that the friend from what I'm trying to connect cuz I will be honest and say the interviews, no one who has interviewed the family has taken the opportunity to to in my opinion clearly, you know, clarify the the timeline of events. I think that it's been bits and pieces here and there and so it's up to everyone else to try and like string them together. So, I don't think that the friend who called Christine was at that house or had no like I don't think that I think that was a friend who was at the beach and is separate from the group of people who had Nolan's phone. Um, that that's what I am summizing from the story that I've heard.

[00:43:24]>> Okay, that makes sense. But I am curious to know and I I did reach out to Christine but unfortunately what has happened is that because Ben Crump is now in it appears to be prioritizing national media, >> it's very hard to get answers now.

[00:43:41]Whereas in the early days I was getting confirmation in quotes rather quickly.

[00:43:45]Um, I I this week like redownloaded Snapchat and like did an experiment where I was having my friend track me and I was changing the settings and ch So like Snapchat does not track your location in the background. Um, >> it only tracks when you post, right?

[00:44:05]>> It tracks it if the app is open. Um, >> okay. or it tracks it in the background.

[00:44:12]Like even if you like quit the app, it'll track your location in real time if you have that setting saved. And so I'm curious to know what Nolan's location services settings were on his phone. Was it set to always track my phone so that even if Snapchat hadn't been used, then okay, it makes sense that it tracks him wherever it goes. Or is it set to only when I'm using the app? Because if that's the case, then that means that someone opened the phone at that house, >> right? Okay. And these are all such important questions. And I know that you said earlier, you know, you're not an expert on investigations, but these are the sorts of questions that we do want to to believe that law enforcement are asking themselves and and con, you know, converging on and getting to these things. It was just devastating to hear the the the father saying, "We would have been out there on the water sooner, but we didn't have access to a boat."

[00:45:02]and it just being like why does it fall on individual families to have access to to these you know hulking things that are very expensive to to you know to get the searches going or you know it takes the United Cent Navy to get out there and if you if if you can't get any of that to happen fast enough through social media or law enforcement then you just don't get access to it. But I I appreciate the questions that you're asking. I hope that national media is is you know really taking because I will say something that's been happening on social media is there's a lot of anger at what seems to be you know what's perceived to be the the white friends and their family members like closing closing off. Um, and that could be just a perception and social media running with but but there's this perception of like people are not support like working with the investigation and so now the family has to get a separate autopsy and they have to do their own things with other >> Yeah. It's like why almost like why in your social media accounts why isn't the response to think of how can I be supportive in the family getting clarity so that way our community can move forward and like being able to mourn him versus like this investigation. And is that something that you feel like from your interviews you're you're like, "Oh, that's blown up on social media." Do you feel like there is a closing of ranks?

[00:46:23]>> I think that it is a result of social media. Um, and I was talking to someone this week. I'm going to Mississippi tomorrow. Um, and I am trying to get as close to Nolan Wells's inner circle as I possibly can, but I'm also going to visit Horn Island and I'm going to visit the dock where the boat cuz now we have like the location of where the boat came and went from. And so I want to see what businesses around there have cameras.

[00:46:54]Does the marina have cameras anywhere nearby? Uh, I'm sure that this is these are questions that the police are already asking, but I want to see it for myself. Um, but the issue is I was talking to a journalist uh friend of mine and I was sort of venting about this case because I told them, you know, social media from the moment that this story hit the internet immediately started finding these people and tagging them. And what I told my audience is outrage is completely warranted in cases like this. it is expected and it is fair for all of us to be angry that a young black boy is gone and to want answers for that. Uh but one like using my platform, I'm not sharing anything that's speculative because I do not want to >> um I I no one should be trying to create outrage. Um and unfortunately social media incentivizes it. But another thing that I have an issue with is that the way that people immediately accuse these people of wrongdoing and uh and insinuated that they should have they that they are suspects, right? And that was before Nolan's body was even recovered. So that was before people even knew for certain that he was dead.

[00:48:16]Um, it's not surprising that people, especially like white boys with resources and families, you know, who come from money, it's not surprising that they were like, "Yeah, we're we're going to disappear now."

[00:48:30]>> And so, what makes it hard is that as a journalist, these are people that you would typically be able to reach out to.

[00:48:37]like you know even if it's not the three friends who are on the boat like typically as a journalist you can go on to their profiles and find their friends and tag their and message them and say hey you know you can stay anonymous but you know were you there that day and now no one is talking >> because everyone is being made out to be a suspect >> and so I do think that in some ways the response from social media has made it harder to get answers >> that's True. No. And that's a really great perspective that I don't think a lot of people take into consideration of like, yeah, imagine if something tragic happened to your son's friend group.

[00:49:15]Like your immediate reaction would be probably to mourn, but also like, damn, I didn't think my child would then be held accountable. And I think this speaks to a larger conversation of because of the deeprooted history of black kids going missing or or black kids or black people being mistreated um in white communities that our automatic response, right, which is a trauma response at its heart, our PTSD is to believe a foul play. And the question I would pose is like, well, I would ask ourselves is is what's the chicken before the egg, right? Are they shutting down as a response to because they have something to hide or are they shutting down because they know that the public will have a negative impact or have a negative perspective because of the history of violence for black kids? Um, what can everyday people do, right? Not just journalists or lawyers. Actually, what can everyday people actually do?

[00:50:06]And you kind of alluded to that, right?

[00:50:07]Like not sharing misinformation, actually waiting for um not per perpetuating or promoting unverified claims. like but what can everyday people do in in situations like this?

[00:50:18]One to raise awareness but also to ensure that we are not creating more um more noise than that actually prevents us from getting clarity in cases like these.

[00:50:31]>> Um I would say that the first thing you can do if a case like this really really matters to you is to try and support the family in ways that you can. Uh, so immediately when someone's reported missing, try and spread that. Really try and think hard. Like last night, I was like, who do I know that's in Tennessee?

[00:50:51]And I started sending them, you know, that that missing person's report that had just come in from Tennessee. Um, but in a case like Nolan Wells, try and support the family via their GoFundMe if you're able to do that. uh or support organizations that do the work of trying to keep these stories alive and find uh people who have gone missing or get closure for their families. But I think the most important thing to do, and I feel like this is kind of like a it it won't come across as like a very it it won't it this won't feel like a brilliant answer, but I think that people really need to start thinking about the ways that their engagement online is capital and spend it wisely.

[00:51:34]>> Yeah.

[00:51:34]>> Stop stop rewarding the pages that are just so blatantly using this story for clicks and views. I see accounts that are like real estate agents and food critic reviews and like film reviews or pop culture commentators who are now completely focused on this. If if an account has more videos about Nolan Wells than the media has news stories, that should tell you something. Yeah.

[00:52:04]>> Like there should you should not have been able to make 10, 12, 15 posts about Nolan Wells. like you can't I I can't script 15 videos about Nolan Wells, you know, we don't know enough. And so >> my number one thing in cases like this and just in general, I think we just have a media literacy issue is stop rewarding pages that are doing harm.

[00:52:29]Block them actually.

[00:52:31]>> I agree. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Okay. So, how does folks um Go ahead, Bria.

[00:52:36]>> Oh, yeah. I was just going to say no, that's so real. I think just one last thing to leave people on is that Nolan is not content. Like please, even even people who think they're well-intentioned, well, I'm just posting things to try and get people, but like you're treating him and his family like content, and that's not fair. Um, and allow the family to actually get the answers because listen, even if we believe and and feel like there is absolutely proof of foul play, we don't want people to disappear off the face of the earth with the only evidence that this family might have access to, right?

[00:53:08]We want them to to be able to be be held accountable in the proper channels and not that social media's witch hunt is clouding and getting in the way of that.

[00:53:19]Again, even well intentioned because he's not.

[00:53:21]>> I just I really want people to remember that like Nolan Wells's mom, first of all, is so sweet and like so brave and strong. Her resilience is remarkable. I I would not be able to do what she is doing. Um and his father as well.

[00:53:43]>> Remember that Nolan Wells is gone, but his family is here and they can see what you're saying. And as much as people think that they are helping by sharing stories that they hear, by trying to say like, you know, I there I've heard just the wildest conspiracy theories about what people think happened to Nolan Wells.

[00:54:06]>> And when I when I tell people you should not be sharing this, you really should take this down. And if you're connected to someone who told you this, get them to share it with the police. but this shouldn't be online. And everyone gets so mad at me because they think that I'm trying to like suppress this. And I'm like, guys, Nolan Wells's family, my son is only four years younger than Nolan Wells. And I'm like, Nolan Wells's family does not deserve to come online >> and have to be inundated with >> all of these conspiracy theories and imagine the horrific things that may have or could have happened to their son. let them get to the truth, but we don't have to further traumatize them along the way while they fight for justice. That is so it cruel.

[00:54:58]>> I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Sometimes our best intentions are actually hindering the work that we want to happen. And I think we all need to kind of take a step back and realize that we're not journalists. um we do have a responsibility to elevate and to share information and to make sure that the families um are getting the um type of justice that they deserve, but not to muddle the waters or make things more complicated for them to do so. Um oh, as always, we are so appreciative of you taking the time to join us today. Can you tell folks how they continue to stay up todate on the work that you're doing and the stories that you're covering?

[00:55:31]Yeah, you can find my work uh it's primarily on Instagram uh here's why Kevin, but I am delving into doing, you know, more long form content which you can find on my Substack. Nothing on my Substack is paywalled. I try to do an essay there like once a week uh and additional work when I can. And that's also here's why Kevin.substack.com.

[00:55:53]>> Thank you so much. Well, hopefully love and appreciate you so deep and you know we got to have you come back on because yeah, you're doing some really really important reporting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:56:03]>> Thank you. I would love to and I'm such a huge fan of both of you.

[00:56:08]>> Thanks. Thanks. We try. [laughter] [gasps] >> So for those watching, we're going to take a quick break. You are watching the other side of change only on the Blackar Network.

[00:56:20][music] Heat. Heat.

[00:56:26][music] >> [music] [music] >> Folks, Black Star Network is here.

[00:56:46]>> Hold no punches.

[00:56:47]>> A real revolutionary right now.

[00:56:50]>> Support this man. Black Media. He makes sure [music] that our stories are told.

[00:56:54]>> I thank you for being the voice of black America rolling.

[00:56:57]>> I love y'all. All the momentum we have now. We have to keep this going.

[00:57:01]>> The [music] video looks phenomenal.

[00:57:03]>> See this difference between Black Star Network and blackowned media and [music] something like CNN.

[00:57:09]>> You can't be blackowned media and be scared.

[00:57:12]>> It's time to [music] be smart.

[00:57:13]>> Bring your eyeballs home. You dig?

[00:57:22][music] Heat. Heat. N.

[00:57:26][music] >> [music] [music] >> Welcome back to the other side of change only on the Black Star Network. Today's episode sits with something heavy. A country that keeps [music] asking us to prove that our loved ones lives matter enough for investigation, for search, or cover. Nolan Wells deserves answers.

[00:57:58]Trey Reed, Kai Basin, um Dominique um Alexander, and every family living through an unsolved hanging death deserves a system that doesn't close the case the same day it opens it. And the thousands of missing black children and adults with no headlines to their names, deserves to be looked at, um deserves to be loved, deserves to be heard, deserves a full investigation into what actually happened.

[00:58:21]>> Yeah. And if you want to help in this specific case or in many, many others, you can support the Black and Missing Foundation. Donate to them, follow them, share the specific missing person's cases in your networks. If you know someone, as Kevin said, who lives in a state where a young black person is missing, share it with them. Don't wait on mainstream outlets or push your local stations and elected officials to get the right coverage and resources equitably disseminated.

[00:58:45]>> Couldn't agree more. Follow the Nolan Wells case and support his family's calls for transparency. say his name and say it often as we do for all those from the black community and beyond who go missing and there's no investigation to find them or to solve their case.

[00:59:00]>> Yeah. You've been watching the other side of change only on the Blackart network. Until next time, keep pushing and never comply in advance.

[00:59:10][music] Heat. Heat. N. [music] >> [music]