The Man Behind Every Song You Love

[00:00:00]So, I knew something was about to happen, but then when Peter started in, it just blew me away. And I kept having these gobsmacked moments at at [music] the same time as I was thinking, why isn't Dan here? Because this is a documentary waiting to be made. And I wish I was sharing it with Dan so that we could look at each other and go, let's go for it. What does it mean to be everywhere in music history and somehow remain just out of the spotlight? In Peter Asher, Everywhere Man, directors Dan Geller and Dana Goldfine trace the extraordinary life of a man who seemed to move quietly through the center of everything. As one half of the singing duo, Peter and [music] Gordon, Asher is swept into the British invasion with songs written by Paul McCartney. At Apple Records, he helps shape the early career of James Taylor. And in the decades that follow, he became one of the defining behindthe-scenes forces in American music, producing and guiding [music] artists like Lender Ronand, Carol King, Bonnie Ra, and Barbara Stryisand. But everywhere man [music] is not simply a portrait of proximity to greatness. It is a film about listening, [music] about the invisible work of helping artists find the truest version of their own [music] voice. Blending musical memoir, documentary, live performance, and a remarkable archive of songs and stories, the film invites [music] us to look again at how culture is made, not only by the people standing center stage, but by those just beside them, shaping the sound, the moment, and sometimes the memory itself. Join us for a conversation with Dan Geller [music] and Dana Goldfine on Inside the Artouse, starting now.

[00:01:35]>> [music] [music] >> Today's episode of Inside the Art House is sponsored by the Carsey Wolf Center.

[00:01:51]>> Hi, my name is Greg Lemley >> and I'm Rafael Spark >> and welcome to today's episode of Inside the Artouse. Today we're joined by uh two terrific documentary filmmakers. Uh we have Dana Goldfine and Dan Geller are here with us. Uh their previous film Hallelujah. Leonard Cohen Journey a song was one of my top films uh from 20 2022 [laughter] and and their new film is uh is equally enjoyable and delightful. It's uh Peter Asher Everywhere Man. Thank you for joining us.

[00:02:22]>> It's a a pleasure and also thank you for putting movies into theaters and especially documentaries into theaters.

[00:02:29]>> Oh absolutely. Every time we've been in front of a theater with this film in particular, you know, we just thank the audiences because it's not anything we take for granted and the theater experience of sitting in a darkened room with a big screen and you're, you know, whether you know them or not, you're surrounded by people laughing and crying and emoting the same way you are. It's just it's just not thing I take for granted anymore.

[00:02:52]>> Thank you. Well, it's good to it's good to know it's good to remember that and note that. [laughter] You know, look, I'm not immune to the idea that, you know, people will catch up on films uh online, especially the these days, and and and I think that's terrific. Uh you know, that they can go see the Leonard Cohen, you know, film if they haven't seen it and find it. I think I think it's on Hulu right now, right?

[00:03:14]>> It is. But but the opportunity to see something in a movie theater is uh I think, you know, the the better way and more important way and and more impactful. So, um, we're really happy that this film exists and and that it is going to be playing in movie theaters.

[00:03:30]Um, it's not lost on me that a lot of music documentaries these days are going straight to streaming >> and I think bypassing that, but but but you know, it's an interesting point.

[00:03:38]This film arguably started because of a theatrical experience. Um, [laughter] you're >> Yes. Let's just So, why don't we start there? [laughter] >> Sure. I mean it be because Peter's uh musical memoir show is the way we were introduced to Peter and and we can get into the strange path that got us to the show in the first place. Um but that it it be it begins with not only learning about Peter's life in some sort of uh dry technical way, but learning about Peter's life sitting in an audience with a a group of people having him tell his story and singing. So it it in that sense, you're right. I hadn't quite thought of it that way, Greg, that it it it it begs to be seen as a movie in an environment [laughter] where people can feel that.

[00:04:32]>> It was inspired by the theatrical experience.

[00:04:34]>> It was it was and again and and it kind of has carried over. I don't know if it'll I can't promise that it'll happen at this, you know, the screenings at the Lemly theaters, but I would say more often than not, especially by the time you get to the end of the film, um people sing [laughter] along with people sing along with the screen.

[00:04:50]>> I was wondering if they're dancing in the aisles. Yeah. My god, >> I haven't quite seen dancing yet, but [laughter] um but the singing part it sometimes, you know, we look at each other and we go, "Wow, it's happening again. That's so amazing."

[00:05:03]>> Yeah.

[00:05:03]>> Yeah. Well, for those of us of a certain age, I mean, and and even younger, I mean, this is the soundtrack of our lives >> completely. I mean, for for me, the the Peter and Gordon albums were not the soundtrack of of my life or Dan's, I don't think, but for sure the James Taylor, Carol King, Linda Ronstat, you know, 10,000 Maniacs were were all part of my personal DNA soundtrack. Um, you know what? Let's take a look at the trailer for the film and just we've been talking about it for a bit. I want to give the audience, you know, a chance to see what attracted us to have you guys on in the first place. So, here's a trailer from the film Peter Asher, Everywhere Man, directed by our guests, uh, Dana Goldfine and Dan Geller.

[00:05:48]>> It is my honor to introduce producer, pop star, manager, Peter.

[00:05:52]>> Peter, >> Peter Asher.

[00:05:57]Peter was always a kind of ghostly legendary figure. I didn't even know what he did.

[00:06:05]>> I guess the question is how did all this happen?

[00:06:10]>> While I was at school, I noticed another pupil holding a guitar case. His name was Gordon Waller. Ladies and gentlemen, Peter and Gordon.

[00:06:20][music] >> How can I understand?

[00:06:25]>> My sister [music] Jane was a proper movie star. And I asked her boyfriend Paul McCartney, "Did anything ever happen with that world without love song?" Gordon and I would like to have a go at it.

[00:06:35]lock me away.

[00:06:36]>> And don't [music and singing] here inside where I [singing] hide.

[00:06:43]>> Peter was famous having the song written by Paul, which is a very clever thing to do.

[00:06:49]>> I could see that there was a bigger horizon for Peter, much bigger. I said, "Have you ever thought of actually producing records?

[00:06:57]>> Maybe just like a friend of mine from [music and singing] behind. Guess I'm going to carry in my mind.

[00:07:07]>> I couldn't believe it. He's a producer.

[00:07:10]>> Here's a very special guest of ours, Linda Ronstat.

[00:07:14]>> I was 26 [music] years old. I was just wandering around and I didn't know what I was doing yet.

[00:07:18]>> Sometimes he's a musical prodigy.

[00:07:20]Sometimes he's a [music] therapist.

[00:07:22]Peter stuck with me throughout some dodgy times. That's no small thing to make that happen.

[00:07:32]When Peter came along, everything changed. [music] >> As much as he's great at music, he was great at picking out the best bits.

[00:07:39][laughter] >> We call him DJ Mensa. Thank you, Peter.

[00:07:42]God bless you. [music] >> In addition to loving the experience, you realize that these songs played a considerable role in people's lives and how much that [music] means to people.

[00:07:58]>> [music] >> So great. It's so great.

[00:08:06]>> Oh, thank you. [laughter] >> That's Jump Cut. The folks at Jump Cut, they are great trailer editors. They're amazing.

[00:08:14]>> I I mean I feel like um >> I feel like we're both good editors.

[00:08:17]There is no way we could have cut that trailer. [laughter] >> People that cut trailers are is it is it is a fine art. It is really something.

[00:08:24]It's like paper making. It's really >> specialized and remarkable. Yeah.

[00:08:29]>> Yeah.

[00:08:30]>> But the film is obviously not as frantically paced as that. And you do get and you get to spend time with each of these people and understand, you know, how important the relationship was and uh and what Peter, you know, was able to do with them, you know, guiding their music and their careers.

[00:08:48]>> Yeah. And you mentioned something interesting because we do the form of each movie has its own rhythm and pace.

[00:08:55]I with the Leonard Cohen movie is really contemplative and it just sort of unfolds in a very different kind of um rhythm. And with this movie, uh it has energy and pep and verve, but it's not cut a mile a minute. We trust that the audience can sit with an idea and sit with a scene and sit with a moment um and not have to be entertained with, you know, tick tock, you know, flash flash flash.

[00:09:20]Please consider subscribing to Inside the Artouse and take a second to like, comment, and share. It's the best way to [music] support the show and help more people discover the conversations with the filmmakers you love. You can also listen to Inside the Artouse on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hi, I'm Rafael Sparge, co-host of Inside the Art House, and we are thrilled that this episode is sponsored by the Carsey Wolf Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara. The Carsey Wolf Center supports research, teaching, and public programming about film and media, reflecting the vision of their founding benefactors, Marcy Cary and Dip Wolf.

[00:09:57]The center's goal is to foster informed dialogue, critical skills, historical understanding, and new forms of literacy for a global and interconnected world.

[00:10:07]The center also presents free public screening events and conversations with filmmakers and scholars in the beautiful Pollock Theater at UCSB. Head over to their newly launched YouTube channel at CarseyWolf UCSB to watch recordings of their most recent conversations.

[00:10:26]Highlights include a conversation with UCSB alum Andy Jurgensson, the winner of the 2026 Academy Award for Editing for One Battle After Another, or the recent panel on the future of movie going featuring Jason Wrightman, Brad Sberling, Maggie McKay, and Jackie Brenamman. Find out more at carcywolf.usb.edu to you.

[00:10:51]>> Before you went to the cabaret show where where he essentially, you know, does this compilation of his life, did you know Peter Asher story? Was this something that you were even vaguely familiar with?

[00:11:01]>> Not at all. Zero. And it and pop stars, unless they're the Beatles or the Rolling Stones or Bob Dylan, generally pop stars have a pretty short shelf life in terms of really capturing the youth imagination. Uh, and of course there were exceptions, but with Peter and Gordon, you add into that that they broke up as a as a duo. So they did not keep on performing together and they So to be my age, I'm 65. Um, it meant that I I caught the late Beatles uh sort of as my coming of age for first music and then James and Lyndon, all these great 70s um artists. Uh, so Peter and Gordon was not in my consciousness. There was no Ed Sullivan show. There were no pop records that they had put out that I had um ever listened to. So coming at it also without the background of being a complete music nerd and always looking at the back of records or trying to figure out who produced whom, um I really came as a a blank slate >> and I came as equally blank. But luckily in 2012, just as Peter was was starting to do this memoir show, um I got a call from my high school boyfriend who's remained a really dear friend of both of ours. Um and he uh shares a house or he has a room in Linda Ronstat's house.

[00:12:29]They've been really dear friends for decades. Um and he called one day and said, "Hey Dana, Linda's got a spare ticket to see this new cabaret show that her ex manager is doing." Um, Peter Asher and I had no idea who Peter was, but I wanted to get to meet Linda Ronstat. [laughter] So, I know it makes me sound I've been saying this now many times and it makes me sound incredibly mercenary.

[00:12:52]>> Who doesn't want [laughter] to meet Linda Ronstead? Oh my god. Yeah.

[00:12:55]>> I mean, I think I might have even said, "Oh my god, does that mean I get to sit next to her?" Um, [laughter] so, but I walked into the room. It was a small um cabaret venue in San Francisco.

[00:13:06]And I looked around and I was like, "Okay, this is something special."

[00:13:09]because there was Robin Williams with his new [laughter] wife and there was Ben Fun Tour and it just felt like all of you know I think Peter Coyote was there all the Bay Area kind of luminaries were filling that room and so I knew something was about to happen but then when Peter started in um it just blew me away and I kept having these gobsmacked moments at at the same time as I was thinking why isn't Dan here because this is a documentary waiting to be made and I wish I was sharing it with Dan so that we could look at each other and go, let's go for it. [snorts] >> Yeah. I mean, you've made some incredible docs and and and and obviously some incredible [clears throat] docs focused on individuals. This one is sort of ser he literally served it up. I mean, in a certain sense and and what's interesting is that you use it as kind of a connective tissue throughout. I mean, you filmed him doing this cabaret and it it's sort of a a sort of a chorus, I guess, as it were throughout the piece, which is an interesting choice to not then just do them all in interviews. And I I wonder if you could talk about that. Well, yes, because by by the time I saw the show, which was seven years later, because someone else had started to make a movie about Peter, um CC Goldwater started in uh and and ultimately she didn't pursue it all that far, although she did shoot that night that Dana was there at the Raz room and and the Robin Williams clip that's in the movie is from Cece's um capturing of that moment and that she licensed to us.

[00:14:39]But when >> I was going to say in fact that night as I was thinking I wish Dan was here I I was like well maybe I could talk to him afterwards or figure out you know somehow for for him to see this. And then I looked across the room and there was this woman Cece shooting. And so I walked up to her and I said something that I've rarely felt or shared with another filmmaker. But I said you know don't take this the wrong way. It's the best compliment I can give you. I'm very envious of what you're doing.

[00:15:06]>> [laughter] >> Um, but I wished her well and and but then on the other hand, as Dan and I got to know Linda more and more over the, you know, subsequent years, we would regularly say, "Hey, what's happening with the Peter Asher doc?" Um, and then finally, sort of in 2019, she said, "You know what? It's not it's really not going to happen." So, >> so that's when and Peter happened to be coming back to town and he was at um Bimbos 365 Club, a larger venue, this beautiful venue. And seeing him um do the show, what came across right away is that [clears throat] it he is very entertaining. He is a charming storyteller. And that we understood at that moment two things, you know, first that it would be interesting to try to attempt a movie where that is the spine but not the entirety of the movie. That it's a it's a connective tissue, it's a spine, it's a launching pad. Um, just creatively for us to try to do something a little differently than we've done before. Um, and then, uh, the other part is that it's so much fun to be in the audience to watch that show.

[00:16:15]Why wouldn't we try to give somebody a a sense of that experience in addition to the all the other material that we would bring in, archival material and other interviews and verite moments.

[00:16:28]Well, yeah, it's right. I mean, look, anyone who's remodeled a house sometimes at some point in the process says, gee, it would have been so much easier just to tear the whole thing down and start from the ground up. Um, so what sounds like, oh yeah, it's easier choice. Let's use this this existing show and build the film around it. I mean, arguably, in fact, is a much harder choice. Well, um I mean again the first thing we thought when we were looking at it was this is a great backbone. Um and then we've never done something like this before, so it would be really fun to try. Um if you really look at our past work, you'll see that we try not to repeat ourselves because it would be a little bit boring. And so it's like could we make this work? Could we do something that's kind of loosely based around a stage performance but then go off in all kinds of different directions? And then the other thing is that because Peter's live show includes full versions of so many songs, >> he doesn't go as deeply into a lot of the different places that we go. And it we said, wouldn't it be fun to try to track down all the people he talks about and you know, maybe even see how reliable a narrator he is.

[00:17:38]>> Well, [laughter] that's right. Ask the tough questions, right?

[00:17:41]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:42]>> And then come back to him, which we we interviewed him quite a few times over several couple of years. We could come back to him having interviewed Linda or James or other and and say, well, you know, they said, Peter, they say this, this is what happened. Um, and get him to respond to that. It wasn't like there was any kind of great disagreement in in their versions of stories, but it was enough to say we didn't think to ask him about a particular moment or idea or or record that Linda might have been in, but because we had talked to Linda, we could go back to Peter and and trigger a a story about that. So, it was we did have a lot of going back and forth that I think enriched the film. Um, but also, uh, we were kind of a pain in the ass cuz we'd say, "Better, we need to sit you down in that upstairs bedroom again.

[00:18:33]Can you put on the same shirt?" You know, that kind of thing. We all know how that's >> Yeah. You know how how documentaries unfold. Yeah.

[00:18:39]>> Yeah. And also, there were things that we discovered. For instance, um, we knew the James Taylor story and obviously the Linda Ronstat story because those are part and the Carol King story because those are part of Peter's show. But when we were getting ready to film the Bimbos uh performances, Jeff Allen Ross, Peter's Peter's band manager and stage manager said, "Hey, you know, I think Kate Taylor might want to come out and watch." Um, you know, she's James's sister. And she flew out and we were so blown away by her personality because she's really the antithesis of James.

[00:19:13]She's like such a livewire and hilarious and warm and not that James isn't warm, but he's, you know, more withdrawn and shy. Anyway, and then we found out that Peter had managed her and produced her, you know, album, her first album, and it sort of >> lured her into the music realm, um, the recording realm, and we we made her part of the film, but we would never have known that Peter had done that from his show.

[00:19:39]>> No. Right. Right. I I guess I mean obviously he has sort of put key points in to the oneman cabaret but it sounds like you kept sort of as remarkable and utterly jaw-dropping as his story is which is just sort of it's truly uh [laughter] for anyone who sees this it's it's really unbelievable in the rooms that he was in. He was in the rooms where it happened, the relationships that he had with people, the he had with so many astounding astounding icons and and it just was so personal. Uh that's him. I guess that's that's who he is. Yeah.

[00:20:15]He's not he's not looking for the limelight. It's sort of a peculiarity that that Peter and Gordon became who they became, but that as he says in the movie, he and his daughter Victoria walking toward the Abbey Road Studios in the film, um he he re he said as much as being in a recording studio was interesting to record his own uh voice with Gordon, it was all these other musicians who were around in that recording session for their first album being told to try this, do that, and that it captivated Peter's um fancy at that very moment. And so he knew in some ways from the beginning of his musical career that he wanted to actually, you know, be behind the camera, so to speak, be the the producer. And as a as a producer, he was not looking for the uh to be front and center to to be a brand, to be the limelight um in the way that Phil Spectre, who would be a contemporary of his was. Um and so he's interesting that way that he he is also shy um just by nature but um as many performers are but it that he um he's fascinating for the very complication that he is a public performer in this uh musical memoir. But otherwise, it just does not particularly care to, you know, be interviewed or put himself out and, you know, be front and center walking a red carpet at the Grammys. That's not Peter.

[00:21:48]>> Yeah, he's quite reticent in many ways.

[00:21:50]I mean, I think that that's probably true of I mean, people say, "Oh, yeah, if you hang out with, you know, Steve Martin, like he's got his public persona where he's hilarious and and um outgoing and then he's quite reserved and shy um when you go one-on-one." And I think that I would say that that's kind of true of Peter, too. But but what Dan said, I just wanted to amplify, which is, you know, Peter realized he wanted to be in the background producing that first day that he was in the studio at EMI recording World Without Love. And Gordon, on the other hand, realized, I want to keep going. I want to be a pop star. I want to be a number one worldwide Beatles-like pop star. And Peter's thinking, oh my god, this is so cool. like look at these musicians and look at these like you know knobs and things that I can turn and make their music better.

[00:22:40]>> I know you've been making documentaries for 40 years and you've been working together as a couple as well making all of these documentaries. Just um just even that fact alone is astounding. Uh both the fact that you're a couple and working together and the fact that it's been 40 years. But um I wonder if you could talk about how I mean you've explained it a little bit in terms of kind of walking to the theater and saying oh my god this would be but how do you decide when do you know >> what's the barometer for you to make a decision about proceeding and how do you then collaborate that between each other? I >> I mean for me it's just this it happens.

[00:23:13]It's a spark that lands when you're not expecting it. And um and and I think we look at each other or we talk to each other and like this one for sure was just like, "Oh my god, I thought I was coming to meet Linda Ronstat and instead [laughter] I'm witnessing [snorts] a documentary waiting to be made. Damn that woman across the room [laughter] with a camera."

[00:23:34]>> Um in the case of Leonard Cohen and Hallelujah, we weren't thinking when we went to dinner at our friend's house. um David Thompson, who's a an amazing film critic and writer, um and his wife Lucy.

[00:23:48]Uh but halfway through that dinner, he said, "Have you ever considered doing a documentary about a song?" And we both shook our heads and said, "That doesn't sound like a great idea, but thank you for offering it up." [laughter] And then this image of >> Well, also to add to that, it's because David had said he had considered writing a book about a song without any song in mind and realized it would be a failure.

[00:24:10]And so then he was She's giving it to us as a film idea. We think we just sort of move the peas on the plate a little bit.

[00:24:17]>> It's true. [laughter] But then a few minutes later, I mean, Dan and I had gone to see Leonard Cohen um at the sort of beginning of the first of his comeback tours in 20 or 2009 or something like that.

[00:24:31]>> And that this image of Leonard getting on his knees and singing Hallelujah to this amazingly hushed audience in Oakland. I I turned to Dan and five minutes after David broached this question that we thought was kind of silly and I said, "Oh my god, Dan, I know the song and I I I it's it's Hallelujah. Like let's let's go into it." Um >> I for mean on a broader level I'd say is the person it's like casting any kind of movie. Is the person uh going to hold the screen because they are uh passionate about themselves about what they're doing or the world they're in or um and are they charming in a way that they and because we tend to make films about people we like and respect at some level rather than exposees of people who are venal. So are they are they charming and interesting? Are they articulate enough? uh are they living in their hearts even though the words are coming out of their mouths and out of their head. Are they living in their hearts enough so we can feel with them so that they become a character that we are empathetic with? And then the whether it's a a historical film, an archive film, um there's a big interesting life to limb that's good or on a verite film going back even to Froch when Greg mentioned Froch that um do is it a situation where someone over the course of a substantial enough period of time if we're there all the time um it will create uh some sense of conflict within themselves, something they need to resolve. or understand about themselves that can be portrayed. So I I I think longitudinal whether it's verite or historical but more than anything that these are first-person participants in in the very movie that is about them.

[00:26:26]And that's the same reason why on the Cohen movie and on this movie, you know, we didn't go to interview music experts.

[00:26:35]We don't want someone else telling us what we should think about. We went we the people are interviewed are the people who lived this you know who are the artists who made the music with Peter who are the friends like Eric Idol who just enjoy it and so they they're speaking in a very different way not in an analytic way but in a way friends are tried to figure each other out >> and also selfishly these things take years as I'm sure I'm sure you know um and and so selfishly it's kind of like is this a subject that we want to hang with for >> live with right yeah for a minimum of two years and sometimes five or more.

[00:27:09]>> Sure. Um and so again I think that's part of why we choose uh subjects that we admire and not that we want to make hey geographies or like in the case of the Galopicus affair a subject that which I mean that film was kind of about um humanity search for paradise and what does paradise mean and what if you end up in your version of paradise but there's someone living next to you who has a different version of paradise and you know so it's like is is there a question in the material that we're about to dive into that it will keep us occupied and intellectually and emotionally engaged for a couple years.

[00:27:45]>> This story is uh just by virtue of the names alone is is jaw-dropping and would sort of get a lot of attention. But I mean for filmmakers, other filmmakers, documentary filmmakers are thinking about this in this case you had the idea, you had the show, maybe let's go film the the concert, the the cabaret.

[00:28:04]Do you self finance until it basically sells? Um, is this one that you were able to kind of get financing for upfront? I mean, how how long do you pour your own money or other than your time um into it before you have to kind of then look for support and because it >> people don't understand how hard it is.

[00:28:24]I mean, not is it just two two and a half years of your life at minimum >> across across all all of our films up to this one. Um, we've had a a side business doing corporate media that could afford us to have the gear to put a roof over our heads and we we would with tiny exceptions self- finance. Um, which is sort of crazy. Um, it got a little bit nerve-wracking on the Leonard Cole movie because when you start to slide into music rights and lots of music, uh, things get very very expensive. So, we went out on a limb. It got scary, [laughter] you know, and we premiered it at Venice and at Turide with we we you we know we that was the introduction to the world.

[00:29:07]No distributor, no one had looked at it other than those festival programmers.

[00:29:10]With this film and the next one we're doing, some circumstances had changed with two very lifelong very dear lifelong friends of ours and we formed a company to do this film and and the next one and maybe more, who knows? Uh and so uh we're not self- financing in the sense it's not Dana my retirement money [laughter] if we ever do retire. Um but it is self finance in the sense that no there's no distributor money in it. Uh we there's no record company money in it. There's not Peter's money is not in it. Um, and we take the risk to do it this way, which most people advisedly um and respectively think is is not exactly the way to go. But but if we're fortunate enough and have been to do it this way, we make the movie we want to make, always getting feedback from people we trust. I mean, we're not just arrogant about it and saying, "Well, this this is our film." We always get feedback along the way. And in fact, even after the first couple of festivals, we always kind of go back in and twiddle a little bit on the movie. Uh, but it's it I don't I wouldn't trade that risk against the freedom that it affords us.

[00:30:21]>> I mean, you know, like like I said in the beginning, we used our honeymoon money. Instead of going on honeymoon, we we made our, you know, we we shot our first week for Isidor Duncan. Um, and I think that that was the first time where at a certain point, you know, this was like the late ' 80s, um, when there hadn't yet been a quote unquote documentary gold rush, which I don't even know, it definitely didn't touch us. Um, [laughter] but but it's referred to that way. I mean, in the in the 80s when we started, like all you had was hope that your film would show on PBS. Um, right. And we kept submitting and you submitted to to foundations. And so we did that, but we hadn't ever gotten a film off the ground before and we were asking for something that was sort of big and no one would fund us. And then finally we looked at each other one day and we said, "Well, we have this little chunk of change that we were going to use for a honeymoon.

[00:31:12]Let's just fund our first week of production." Um, and then the other thing that helps is Dan shoots, I do sound, you know, we both can edit. I think the more what I always say to young filmmakers, the more you can do yourself, the more freedom you have. Um, freedom from needing to raise money. Uh, freedom because you know what it means to edit and you know what it means to frame a shot um and to get good sound.

[00:31:36]And then and then as Dan said, you know, starting our our corporate media company um allowed us to buy more equipment and to um in between corporate gigs go out and make our films.

[00:31:49]Well, well, as a sideline, you know, at some level, this film is about a scene.

[00:31:54]Um, and um, if I can just ask you to take a minute or two to talk about uh, the documentary film making scene in the Bay Area, which I don't think a lot of people necessarily know about. And um, >> oh, it's such a gift. I mean, it really is. A lot of us are old-timers now. Um, but when we started, um, people were like, well, why aren't you moving to Los Angeles? Um, I mean now it would probably be why aren't you moving to New York? But we were like because this is this is our peeps. I mean everyone here there's a big group. I mean I don't think every anyone realizes or a lot of people don't realize that 10% of the doc branch in the academy lives here in the Bay Area >> and we're incredibly tight and and supportive of each other's work. We go to screenings. Um, you know, we we hang out. Not like we're intimately, you know, connected in in all the social ways, but we really do. It it feels like a real community.

[00:32:52]>> Well, it started out this particular um group a generation or so older than Dana and I are started out in social action documentary filmm looking to document and and instigate change. So there was a it was not a careerist start. Um and San Francisco back then was counterculture anyway. It is substantially changed.

[00:33:18]>> But you have less blank. You had less blank who was doing more culturally. I mean I wouldn't say it was only >> not only but it was predominantly [clears throat] it really was. and and and so it that then has over the years changed um a bit so that there was a broader sense of what a film could be or what a film could look like. But it it did attract people. Then there's I went to Stanford's graduate program in documentary filmm Stanford. You have Cal with its um journalism program that has a whole documentary film thread through it. Uh and and it the Bay Area was affordable. uh not anymore but it [laughter] wasn't affordable.

[00:33:56]>> Yeah.

[00:33:57]>> So New York was not as affordable and LA was not as affordable. So this whole culture grew up here. A legacy of the culture is interesting that when uh there's an annual get together. So uh SF film uh has this uh doc stories a four or five day long uh uh festival of documentaries in the fall and they bring in filmmakers from all over. A lot of these films are also vying for awards, a season recognition and but there's a a Sunday brunch and uh people are in from all over the world actually uh who have made films and are showing those films and they always remark about how welcoming the community is up here because there's a lot of competition out there in it seems to be uh a little bit more uh frosty with some of the other places like New Yorker.

[00:34:56]>> Well, I don't want to say that just for one reason or another, >> but it's competitive in a way that it's not it isn't here. So, people just they just feel so warm and embraced here and and tend to say, "Well, God, why can't we have that, you know, in these other places?" And I think part of the the reason that had developed is that there was this money a lot of money flowing into LA and New York and in certain places overseas to from the streamers from that geo to make these movies recently >> recently and and now that that unfortunately is is in is sliding away um the people who are left standing in these other places I suspect will become more cooperative uh because they have to and will start to support each other in ways and not necessarily uh uh be chasing whatever commission that Netflix may be having.

[00:35:49]>> But you know what? I I think Dan's made it sound like, you know, we're this kumbaya groovy and everyone else is frosty. I don't think it's that. I I also think I would add the geography of the Bay Area, which is a smaller I mean, we have friends in on both the east side and the west side of Los Angeles or the SoCal area, [laughter] and it's hard to get together. I mean, it could take you two hours to, you know, go to a party if it's not near your neighborhood and it's in the wrong hour. Um, so I do think there's something that's um that's cooperative in terms of creating community when you've got a geography that's that's a little bit smaller. I mean, you still have to cross the Bay Bridge or the Golden Gate sometimes, but it's just not it's not as big an ordeal.

[00:36:34]>> It's so important to have that community. I mean, it's so important because it's just it's such a lonely I mean, you have each other, thank God, but um which is also wonderful that that you're creative partners, but just being able to kind of have a community that you're also connected to is giant.

[00:36:48]>> Yeah.

[00:36:48]>> Well, and also, you know, like when we get a first cut, um we've got this community out there that we trust and we know that they're going to give us really honest and support. Like, it's going to be harsh in some areas and it's going to be supportive in in all areas, but sometimes something we don't necessarily want to hear. Um, but the fact that we can draw on this community as we're moving through post-prouction, um, and and get the most amazing feedback that helps us make the ultimate film work.

[00:37:20]>> Great.

[00:37:21]>> Well, maybe someday there's a film there. You know, KQED, I'm sure, will uh step up and and support it. But um >> uh >> but I didn't want I didn't want to let you guys go without really to you know mentioning just you know how long this scene has been in existence and and how many generations of of Bay Area documentary filmmakers and and you guys are you know certainly two of the great exemplers of it. Um but following up I guess or or pivoting off that idea of a scene um if we look at any musical scene whether it's Swinging London or or LA in the you know early '7s are we going to find you know a Peter Asher um in that in in that crowd and and I guess as a sort of an followup to that given the interconnectedness of the world today are those kinds of scenes not happening?

[00:38:11]That's a really good question.

[00:38:12]>> That's a really good question >> because it it there you think about, you know, Paris in in the 20s and there's certain certain places that seem to gather artists of all sorts. um and and not necessarily in any one art form, but there's a little incubator of sorts and it flourishes and um I mean it it someone wrote recently in uh one of the publications, I forget, but that Oakland it seems to be in Oakland, California that's happening in film and in music and in literature and in dance. There's something bubbling up there all of a sudden. Um, and so I do think that if if a place is affordable, and it may be Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, you know, that because having cheap housing and a cheap standard of living, um, affordable standard of living, it's so important.

[00:39:01]If you're starting out and you're trying to do something different, you're trying to work into an art form or push the art form a little bit, that that's tremendously important. So, I do think it is possible and I don't think it happens all the time. I think it you there [snorts] might be a 20-year spans where um whatever that place is births all sorts of folks. A lot of that becomes more mainstream at a certain point. But uh but then the next spot, the next little uh you know volcano that's about to erupt will will show up.

[00:39:34]But and I think it's I mean that that we had things back to back in the 60s and then again in the 70s and then arguably by the mid to late 80s early 90s you had you know both in the music scene you had both um hiphop and grunge exploding um in in regions right you know in New York >> I'm I'm I'm in Seattle so >> exactly so I I think it still happens um regardless but I'm not sure I'm I'm not sure where the the the real affordable places are right now other than particularly Oakland's top of mind because it's in our backyard. But also, I mean, with regard to Peter Asher in particular, I don't I would hazard a guess that it would be very difficult to find another person, man or woman or gender neutral, um, who has been across a span of 60, 50, 60 years >> gone from one major um, scene to another. And that to me is what's so remarkable and I think it's why the story you know Peter's story really gripped us. Um because you know you have stories about Laurel Canyon and you have stories about the Beatles and the you know swinging 60s in London but to have one person's life >> move >> across so many different decades um that just felt really unique.

[00:41:00]>> I wanted to follow up on that actually.

[00:41:01]It's just cuz that's what I I mean by the end of it I just love him. Um I just want to you know adopt him. He's just so immediately lovable to everyone I guess and and and um you allow us to sort of form that relationship with him as you travel through all this. But there's something there's just this incredible quality about him which is just sort of that allowed him to keep moving you know from a child actor to a performer to a pop star to a you know Apple records manager. I mean, and h how now as you know him, h how is it you think he was able to navigate not getting trapped in any one identity?

[00:41:37]>> I think um first of all, he's absolutely brilliant. And I think he gets bored really quickly.

[00:41:43]>> Um and when he gets bored, whether it's in the middle of a conversation or at a party or, you know, in an art form, I guess, um you know, he kind of tunes out. And so I think you know he's looking for um engagement whether it's hearing a new artist like you know in his Barbara Sterand uh duets album which was the last major project that he did um he's the one who brought l to the table you know because he's listening to m to new music all the time and um knows more about it than we do so >> he's also open to other people bringing in other people So his daughter Victoria I think was the one who was said said you know dad there's this Icelandic artist love it you you really need to listen to her. Uh I I it it I think it was Wendy Asher who said Peter this Robin Williams you know he lives down the block he should become a friend because he's really I think you'd like him to be entertained by so Peter's u Peter can spot talent on his own but unusually um is receptive to other people telling him there's something here you pay attention to it and I think the other part for for Peter is that he really does uh listen to and examine the person in front of him that that artist to understand them and figure out well what is it that it that is making them tick and where where is the heart of their talent and what in that heart might um need some nurturing so that it really develops and I think that's why we see him bouncing across decades and genres and artists because he's looking for that in uh that talent and in some cases talent like when Linda decided she's going to do a Spanish language record to say there we we're starting over again in a way right you know she's a huge star but we're starting over to say well how do we how do we frame that and that passion that she has in this language so it's interesting to watch >> well and and also I mean there's a moment in the film towards the end where uh we're sitting with Steve Martin and and Peter and we pose the question what is it that makes both of you kind of continue to I think we phrased it leap off creative cliffs, you know, at this point in time or over and over again.

[00:44:07]And both of them, and Peter said it really well, say it doesn't really feel like we're leaping off cliffs. It's more that, you know, Peter says it's it's more that these um opportunities and ideas present themselves and it you kind of look inside and go that would be really fun to try that. I think he actually, if I'm I'll only barely paraphrase it because I'm pretty sure what he says is I look at it and and I think this could be interesting, this could be fun, I could learn something from it, right?

[00:44:35]And and that sort of loops right around to what we were discussing earlier about, well, how does one pick the films to make, you know, interesting, fun, could learn something. I mean that in that sense I think that's where I do understand Peter [snorts] and and the the the restless mind a little bit. Um but and the other part is as much as he's as Raphael you were saying he's charming and engaging. You want to hug him.

[00:45:02]>> He is shy and Linda mentions that in the film because she is shy. Not when you get to know her. I mean, having gotten to know her over the years if she's fascinating and fascinated in everything in politics and in the world, but um you know, kind of shy about meeting new people and you if you look at that scene where the tour bus happens to break down and that's why the tour the tour group shows up right we're filming in London, >> this crazy scene that just [laughter] sort of happened >> and people are telling Peter how much they love him and how important the music is. you know, he sort of he shrinks in a little bit and just says, "Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you." He he awkward about how to engage that way. Um he's shy about that. So, he's an interesting combination, which is not atypical for someone who is a performer and comfortable on stage, but then offstage doesn't quite know what to do with themselves in social interactions.

[00:45:58]>> All right. Well, I I love that idea of it's interesting, it's fun, I might learn something, and it's not a huge risk. So, you know what? the I think the same can apply to buying a ticket to see this movie. [laughter] >> I like that.

[00:46:11]>> There you go.

[00:46:11]>> Oh, thank you.

[00:46:12]>> But I I'm I'm going to go to a spoiler alert here. So, um can you talk about um the Austin Powers thing? [laughter] >> You know, okay. So, >> Oh, great.

[00:46:24]>> I think when when I saw that show for the first time and I saw the Austin Powers thing, that was the thing that clinched it. It was like, oh my god, of course. But no, really. Um, so that was the scene or sequence that took us the longest to figure out where to put. Um, >> okay.

[00:46:40]>> And you know, cuz at one point we were like, well, maybe it needs to go close to the swinging 60s cuz that's when he looks the most like Austin Powers. So, we tried it there and then I don't know, we tried it in in a number of different places and then finally we were like um so it couldn't it wasn't necessarily meant to be a spoiler alert until we put the whole film together and realized that it ultimately belonged in the tale credits. [laughter] So, but but but Peter himself and um I mean everyone really believes that he was the physical role model for Austin Powers.

[00:47:14]>> So, I love the line, you know, even a gay leprechaun would think twice [laughter] wearing this outfit.

[00:47:22]It's so great.

[00:47:23]>> I know.

[00:47:24]>> Yeah.

[00:47:24]>> You got to love Robin.

[00:47:25]>> Oh my god. What an incredible.

[00:47:27]>> But how did how did Mike Myers f come upon it? I mean, if we're going to say that it really was >> I don't know. I mean um >> I [clears throat] mean you guys you guys, you know, search through archival footage. [laughter] I I I think it uh because the Boston Powers movies are centered in that era in uh London that uh you couldn't avoid Peter because Peter and Gordon were so big in that moment and also it if anyone researching that era would look at the what was happening at the Indica bookshop and art gallery. So, I think there were a lot of things pointing um in that direction. And um >> and then once you see Peter, I mean, you know, like my favorite I think when we discovered the footage of him on the Mike Douglas show where he's um you know, literally in that ruffled um that ruffled shirt and he's, you know, he and and Gordon are singing. I think that was the moment we were like, "Okay, Mike Myers definitely saw this." [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's the aha moment. Yeah. Right.

[00:48:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> So, the film, I believe it premiered at Telluride uh was last year uh in 2025 and uh it's going to be uh distributed by Greenwich Entertainment. Uh opening June 19th in New York. Is that correct?

[00:48:44]>> That's correct.

[00:48:44]>> It is next week. [clears throat] >> Next week. Where are we opening?

[00:48:47]>> Actually, June 18th. They're they're jumping the gun a little bit um with it, I believe.

[00:48:51]>> Yeah, we're they're having they're having one screening um on the night of June 18th because we got a good moderator.

[00:48:57]>> Excellent. Oh, well, when, where, and where, and who was that going to be?

[00:49:01]>> So, it's um at the quad. Okay.

[00:49:03]>> In New York, and um it's an open-ended run. So, we're crossing our fingers that people people come that first weekend.

[00:49:09]>> Come see this movie.

[00:49:10]>> Yeah. The first night uh the moderator is going to be Alan Light, who is a brilliant rock journalist um and writer who whose book about Hallelujah we optioned um and we've been become good friends. We've been good friends ever since. And then the second night is legendary disc jockey Dennis Elsis, who is, if anyone in grew up in New York in the 60s and 70s knew him from WWFm, the cool rock and roll uh alternative uh station and he's on SiriusXM on the Beatles channel. Uh he's just a wonderful interviewer and he will do the Q&A on that uh on the 19th. And we have some fun people for um for LA as well moderating Q&As's.

[00:49:56]>> Yes, we're opening we're opening June 26, although we're actually opening right Thursday, June 25. We'll be at the Royal and and uh and um and North Hollywood as well. Lemly theaters and you guys will be there for some of Yes, that's true.

[00:50:10]>> We're going to be there. Actually, our first screening at a Lemley Theater is the night of Monday, June 22nd, because Steve Farber graciously has chosen to have it be part of his series.

[00:50:22]>> Right. Yeah. So, lots of opportunities and then it's going to be opening around the rest of the country following. Uh you can get information and get information about uh where it's playing at peterashermov.com >> uh or go to the website for Greenwich Entertainment. I assume hopefully you guys will be doing a little more traveling beyond New York and LA with the film. I I assume you'll be at the Bay Area opening.

[00:50:43]>> Oh yeah.

[00:50:44]>> Oh yeah. [laughter] I I have I have one last question which is about about Peter about Peter's response to the movie and obviously [clears throat] he's he's aware I mean it was his cabaret show that that inspired this but but you had a lot of people speaking about him and and I just wonder where it touched him or if you got any kind of real response from him or or if he was just sort of >> guarded about his response.

[00:51:06]>> I think he's guarded. I mean, I think he's he's such at heart >> um a British gentleman of a certain era and [clears throat] um and as Dan has said, he's he's shy and and kind of reserved. And so, you know, like >> he hasn't yet to come to a theater and sit with an audience, which is something that I hope he does at some point because I would love him to feel the response.

[00:51:29]>> Sure. Um, I think I think he feels like it might be unseammly to [laughter] to show up at a film about himself where he's he's receiving a lot of accolades, >> but also if you in talking to Peter, if you ask him how he feels about something, he's gets very impatient. Uh, and he because he as he says to in talking with um Eric Idol at one point in the movie about, you know, I'm a a British man of a certain age. I'm not very emotional as far as expressing emotions. He feels everything but uh you know we keep it to ourselves that uh asking him how well something is done he'll talk about that you know how it's executed or this that and I know he thinks the film is well done but we know having learned very early on in discussions with Peter don't ask him how he feels about it because you know you can see there's some moments in the film where we are asking him about some troubles in his life where he's physically uncomfortable looking out the window and starts to hug himself. He's not comfortable in that space. So, we know don't probe that, you know, [laughter] let it be. But, you know, clearly he is uh, you know, being interviewed around the film and things like that.

[00:52:45]>> Yeah. He really doesn't like uh I I I this I remember the first time I asked him about how does it a how does it feel question. We went to see um a show. It was before we started filming. He also does a a show with Jeremy Clyde of Chad and Jeremy and it's so lovely. Anyone who gets a chance to see the two of them together, it's you shouldn't miss it.

[00:53:06]Um, but Dan and I went to see the show.

[00:53:09]Um, and it and we then we're having breakfast the next morning. I think we're in Phoenix. And I said to Peter, "How'd you feel about last night's show?" Oh my god. [laughter] Like don't ask me that kind of question. like and so then Dan said, "Well, are there things you would do differently or you know, I mean, if you ask him would get into it, but he was really and so that was the moment because I tend to do most of the the initial interviewing." I was like, "Wow, this is going to be really tough because I can't I won't be able to ask him any how do you feel or how did it feel questions."

[00:53:41]>> But that's where it got to be interesting to bring Eric Idol into the mix. Um that that Eric >> Yes. So, you give him sort of a sounding board, right? [clears throat] >> Exactly. and he can sort of be proxy a little bit for Peter because they're such good friends and that opens up some some moments in ways that we couldn't have gotten through direct uh questions to Peter.

[00:54:02]>> Yeah, it's great.

[00:54:03]>> Was there an interview you couldn't get for the film?

[00:54:06]>> You know, there Oh, the only interview that we couldn't get but was actually I think the fact that we couldn't get it turned out to be one of those gifts was Paul McCartney. Um and and you know, everyone told us I mean Morgan Neville is an EP on this project. He's a really dear friend and he was making his wings documentary and so he said I will pose that question to Paul and his manager.

[00:54:28]Um but in the meantime we you know we had to wait quite a while to get the response. In the meantime we went to London with and we were filming Barry Miles who co-wrote um many years from now with with Paul way back in the 90s.

[00:54:42]And while we were with Barry um he actually goes by Miles. uh while we were with Miles, he said, "You know, if Paul gives you the go-ahad, all the cassette tapes from when I interviewed him over the years that we were working on many years from now, um you can have access to them. They're all up in Liverpool in the library."

[00:55:06]>> And so when Paul University >> in the university Yeah. And so, um, as the time kept passing and we kept waiting to hear from Paul, I can say for myself, I was sort of half hoping that he would say no because I felt like those tapes were going to be way more useful in some in lots of ways than to have Paul at this age looking back.

[00:55:28]>> So Paul, you know, Paul, what Paul said was that he really weighed this heavily.

[00:55:33]He generally is taking all his time to do his own projects, right? And so he didn't answer immediately because it was sort of tearing at him a little bit, but ultimately he decided because he's really just doing his own projects that he would leave it be. And so we circled back probably within seconds to say, well, what about those tapes?

[00:55:52]>> Yeah, exactly. We were like, we know he's feeling guilty. Let's let's immediately ask him.

[00:55:58][laughter] >> So he said, and we said, you know, here here are the here are the passages that we want to use. And he said, fine. Um, and what I think that gave us their Paul and and Miles had been friends since the 60s around the whole indica scene, right? Uh, they knew each other really really well and had a long friendship. So the conversations they were having, casual conversations over many months, um allowed Paul to go to I think um memories that were a little fresher and in in a certain intimate way that I don't as good as we are and Dana is really good as an interviewer. I don't think we would have been able to access that in a way with Paul in a limited amount of time. And so those tapes just feel so personal and it's people don't normally hear Paul talking about somebody else's mother and what that the someone else's mother meant to him. Yeah.

[00:56:57]>> Uh I mean these are just beautiful things that that come up. So >> yeah. So I guess that was the only it was kind of like a half turndown because he then let us use the tapes.

[00:57:06]>> Yes.

[00:57:06]>> Well, he's present. So >> yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:10]>> Well, again, it's a terrific film. It's a lot of fun and I think for anybody who's, you know, has even a passing reference or or has been touched by, you know, the music of that period, they're going to love the film. Um, and and Greg, again, thank you for doing what you do for, >> you know, to keep films in theaters.

[00:57:29]It's it's incredibly moving and important.

[00:57:33]>> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. You guys keep making the movies and we're going to keep showing them. That's just how that's how it works, right?

[00:57:39]>> [laughter] >> Raphael making them too, >> Raphael.

[00:57:42]>> Yeah, it's great. It's great. It's wonderful.

[00:57:45]>> Again, the film Peter Asher Everywhere Man being distributed by Greenwich Entertainment. Uh you can get information on uh where it's playing at Peter Asherov.com.

[00:57:54]Uh our guests have been Dana Goldfine and Dan Geller. Uh stalwarts of the uh of the indie scene for years. So, thank you for joining us here on Inside the Art House.

[00:58:03]>> It's a pleasure. Thank you.

[00:58:04]>> Thank you.

[00:58:05]>> Thank you both. [music]