‘He Will NOT SAVE Britain’ | ‘Andy Burnham Is Clueless' | 'Reform Needs To Answer’

[00:00:00]So, let's get the views of a very good friend of the show, Christine Jardine, Liberal Democrat MP. Good morning, Christine.

[00:00:06]>> Good morning, Mark. How are you this fine day?

[00:00:08]>> Well, I'm very well indeed. And of course, I'm not as well as Andy Bernham, who won by a bigger margin than expected.

[00:00:17]>> Oh, yeah. Massive margin. I mean, more than 50% of the vote in a seat that everyone was thinking was going to be too close to call. And in fact, when the election was called, everyone was thinking, you know, is this a wise move?

[00:00:31]Because it's quite a a marginal seat. It was only, I think, a 5,000 majority. Uh reform did well in the council elections. Is this a wise move? Could Labor actually lose this seat in the same way that they lost Manchester uh Gordon and Denton? But in fact, they've got more than 50% of the vote. That's a ringing endorsement of Andy Burnham and what he wants to do and what people in that particular part of the country think about um the songs of Andy Bernham being their representative at Westminster. So I think it's it's maybe gone uh slightly uh well maybe Labour would see a lot better for Labour than a lot of people anticipated and I think um reform now have serious questions to ask themselves. And do you think the prime minister needs to commission the services of a removals firm? Is is it now inevitable, do you think, Christine, that he will cease to be prime minister before the year is out?

[00:01:31]>> I think it's that's an issue first and foremost for Karma and for the Labor Party. Um I listened to what some of um my uh colleagues in the Labour Party, parliamentary colleagues had to to say in the run-up to this and last night and there seemed to be a feeling that um if there's going to be a change of leader then they would like to see Kier Starmer take the initiative in doing that. So, but that's very much now an issue for the Labor Party and what they think is best for the Labor Party and for the country. I think for the country h that has to be the top priority for Labor.

[00:02:15]They have to look now at the message that they've been sent by the people of Makerfield and think about what the rest of the country might be saying. They need to need to think about that very carefully.

[00:02:25]>> Saki Star is not a stupid man, is he? on it >> and it looks to be stacked against him now in any potential leadership face off with Burnham. Do you think there's a chance that Sir Kia will fall on his sword?

[00:02:40]>> I don't know him well enough. Um I've only ever had cursory conversations with him. So I don't know him well enough to be able to judge what he will do. But I think he will have to think seriously um not only about um what this vote uh tells him, but also the sort of open dialogue that's been going on. Um we've seen, you know, public comments from leading members of the Labor Party who had been loyal saying, "No, we've got to change and they've got to change leader." But that's an issue for the Labor Party. My concern is that we we persuade the Labour party and that you know the Labour party moves to a position where the the sort of um glimmerings of hope that we see in the economy that they are able to build in it that we get some growth that we get defense spending um and that something is done about the the cost of living in this country. My constituents in Edinburgh West and I'm sure u people across the country are the same. That is their main concern. It's not necessarily the the resident of number 10. It's what the resident of number 10 is going to do about the cost of living and the energy uh bills that they are facing come this winter if something doesn't change.

[00:03:57]>> And Christina, I wonder if you said the true bit out loud because you accidentally referred to Labour MPs as your colleagues. That sounds a bit cozy to me. Are the Lib Dems now the sister party of Labor?

[00:04:11]>> No. Um I said colleagues in the sense that you would refer to someone in a different journalistic role as a colleague. When I was a when I was a journalist um when I worked for the BBC I would have referred to fellow journalists.

[00:04:26]>> So is Nigel Farage a colleague of yours?

[00:04:30]>> That's a slightly different that's a slightly different situation. Nigel is a a co-parliamentarian. Let's put it that way.

[00:04:37]>> Oh wait a minute. I mean I think we've got a story here. Why are labor colleagues and reform opponents re in where um we have had uh a similar approach on an issue or we have raised an issue and a policy which the Labour party has then endorsed or taken up and we we're happy we're happy that if they do take up our policies and we do that and we have seen that in this government, but I have absolutely nothing politically in common with Nigel Farage.

[00:05:15]>> Is Kemmy Bono a colleague?

[00:05:19]>> Uh Kem again I don't have very much in common with but >> but your party was in government with the Conservatives for five years.

[00:05:28]>> Yeah, >> that sounds like a colleague to me.

[00:05:30]>> That sounds like working in the best interests of the British people to me.

[00:05:35]Find the best way forward. Find some stability. Remember in 2010 the country was the edge of a financial precipice and the country voted um for the conservatives as the largest party but not the majority. Um and let's not go back and you know rehearse a what is it now 16y old argument. It's more than 16 years now. Um it was in May. Let's not go back. We did what you know was in the best interests of of the country. And I've always been um someone who thinks that you work with people if you have a common goal. And the common goal at that time was to to avoid the mess that we could have.

[00:06:16]>> I mean, do you really want to call I understand that you are not an ideological bed fellow of Nigel Farage.

[00:06:22]I accept that. That's very clear and and I understand that fully. But it's strange that you should ally yourself to a party in Labor that have seen the evisceration of economic growth. the reawakening of inflation and the return of unemployment. All because of two ruinous back-to-back budgets, the national insurance tax rate >> tape for businesses, the workers rights and the minimum wage. All of which are destroying the economy and these are your colleagues, your besties.

[00:06:55]>> With due respect, Mark, you're >> friends like that. Who needs enemies?

[00:06:58]>> You're taking one words and blowing. I'm actually shocked.

[00:07:02]>> All All um what's the words I'm looking for? You blow up. Proportion.

[00:07:08]>> Thank you very much. Don't you see?

[00:07:09]>> I think it's safer if I if I finish your sentences cuz when you finish them, you land yourself in it.

[00:07:15]>> Oh, no. I've not dropped myself. Don't worry.

[00:07:17]>> But Ed Davy's not happy.

[00:07:19]>> Well, Ed Davy's been not happy with me before.

[00:07:24]>> I'm glad I'm glad the Lib Dems are so internally democratic. But look, and we don't want to dwell on it too much, but I am quite surprised that Labour MPs are colleagues and Tories and reform are not. I would have thought they were all opponents, but that's fine. You have a collegiate approach. Do you think that Andy Burnham will be a better prime minister than Starmmer if he does get into number 10, Christine?

[00:07:45]>> Oh, I I I don't know. I think it depends. It It's not about the better prime ministers, but we need better policies in government. We need we need a government that is doing better to you know >> tackle the cost of living crisis. We need a government that is doing better on defense. We need a government that is doing better on education, on health. We need a government that is doing better.

[00:08:10]And I don't think that comes down to one person. That comes down to the government. And we do need to see change.

[00:08:16]>> I think you're so right. And does it perturb you, Christine, that notwithstanding his political skills and his charm and his lovely thick black hair that we've not had too much from Andy Burnham on policy on detail, have we? We've had we've had poetry rather than policy.

[00:08:33]>> Um, I think we have had we have had policy, but that's not my concern. My concern um is that we get whoever is in number 10, whoever is in government to get this country back on track again to get growth, to get the economy move. Um and when we see what the government's policies are going to be moving forward, we will know. It may not be anti Bernham may be a backbencher. He may not be offered a cabinet position. He may not be leader. We don't know. And I don't know because I'm not a member of the Labour Party. I can't I can't really tell you what's going on within the Labour Party.

[00:09:09]>> Most definitely. Speak to them, even though you're they're your best mates.

[00:09:12]Um Christine, we're joined.

[00:09:15]>> We're joined in the studio by Benedict Spence, broadcaster and journalist. Uh Benedict, your reaction to what Christine has had to say. I'm particularly interested in the lack of the lack of detail on Andy Bernham's policy platform given that he's just about to reenter the House of Commons. I mean, it's it's interesting because I I I agree and I disagree with Christine on on some of this and that she's right that what we need is better policy. I think it's very clear that under Kia Starama uh Labour has lost sight of what actually is both smart policy and relative uh uh uh um sorry relevant policy. Um I disagree in terms of her saying that it's not about one man. I actually think increasingly it is about one person. Um, I I think that everything does stem from the prime minister and any attempt to sort of outsource things. I I don't actually think that the Labour Party has anybody really with enough sort of gumption uh to carry any more of the burden than simply the prime minister. I don't think we're in the days of being able to have say a Gordon Brown as well as your Tony Blair of actually having sort of multiple big beasts or heavyweights across the front bench. I actually think one of the things that we've seen from Star's period in office so far has been the relative lack of talent of the people around him. I think that that has hurt him. But the key thing here is all things stem from the prime minister. He is the one that has the authority to actually set in motion different policies. He has the uh the the power to hire people to fire people that ministers don't have. Ultimately he is the one that has the sign off on almost all policy. And I think possibly that the outsourcing of things under Starmmer because you know we we were joking earlier um I think with David Maddox about you what is it that Andy Bernham believes in well it's whatever whatever the last person he spoke to has to say which I thought was a little bit mean but you know you juxtapose that with Karma which is what does K star believe well basically what his own team tells him Star's one of his big failings has been actually that he has outsourced lots of things to lots of different people and that has not allowed him to have anything like a coherent strategy.

[00:11:13]>> Christine, what about this talk of a snap election? I wonder Christine whether Andy Bernham with some moral authority could say to the House of Commons and his own party and to the country, well, I'm the new prime minister, that's if he gets into number 10, and therefore I need a mandate. Do you think that there is a chance that we'll have an election this side of Christmas?

[00:11:38]I might be proved wrong, but I doubt it because um if you look at what happened when Theresa May was the most popular prime minister in in in history, I think in living memory going into that weekend where she decided she was persuaded by her advisers, as I understand it, she was so popular she couldn't lose. Um and uh I on the doorsteps in 2017, which was the year I was elected, we were all just accepting that Theresa May was, you know, going to be the prime minister after the general election, which she was, but not with the landslide that everyone was predicting. Now, I think Andy Bernham, if he's wise, will look at what happened to Theresa May and regardless of how popular he might be personally or the Labour Party might become, if they get a staggering bounce, which it would have to be. They are so unpopular at the moment. See, a staggering bounce. I think you have to think very carefully because it only takes one mistake for that to go as to discovered with the dementia tax. one, you know, one mistake and what looked like a landslide victory disappeared like, as we say in Scotland, snow off a dyke.

[00:12:47]>> Now, Christine, by the way, family show, please. We've all had a drink. Uh, Christine, can I say >> a stone wall?

[00:12:52]>> That's exactly right. Christine, by the way, so honestly, brilliant conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. We actually, we really love having you on the show and I'm going to upgrade you. I'm not going to call you guest. You're you're now my colleague.

[00:13:04]>> Okay. Well, you know, we're both journalists, or at least I was a journalist, so you know, there you go.

[00:13:10]>> And a valued colleague at that. Thank you so much for your time.