Call the Cabinet with Nick Ferrari on LBC | CATCH UP: 16.06.26

[00:00:00]They included the then police officer Vicky Tompkins, who's waived her right to anonymity and says she was accused of lying.

[00:00:06]>> And they hadn't even sent my case for review with the Crown Prosecution Service. It had literally stayed within Hampshire.

[00:00:13]They they refused to send it to them and I kept asking and asking, "Please can it get sent to the CPS?

[00:00:21]Please can it get sent to the CPS?" And no, "We're not sending it to them."

[00:00:25]>> Hampshire police has apologized to Sala's victims. It says it recognizes its handling of the investigation caused additional distress and fell below the standards expected. You can read more on the LBC app. The sister of a murdered West Yorkshire MP is urging politicians not to push people towards extremes.

[00:00:43]Today marks 10 years since Jo Cox was shot and stabbed in Birstall. Her sister, Kim Leadbeater, followed in her footsteps to become the area's MP. She's warned threats and abuse towards female politicians have now become even more prominent.

[00:00:58]The government has objected to a proposed rescue deal for Thames Water.

[00:01:02]It has been rejected due to concerns it doesn't go far enough to protect customers or the environment. The UK's largest company may be nationalized if it can't restructure its debt, which is around 20 billion pounds.

[00:01:15]In the city, a short time ago, the FTSE 100 was trading up 11 points at 10,441.

[00:01:22]The pound buys a dollar 34 and 1 euro 15. LBC weather, outbreaks of rain for Northern Ireland, Scotland, and the north of England. Some sunny spells for Central Wales and the south of England, a high of 24° from Global's newsroom for LBC. I'm Dominic Harris.

[00:01:41]>> Some companies try to reel people in by promising quick cash if you pay >> for what you and the Prime Minister and your colleagues are trying to achieve.

[00:01:47]So, I think I need to put that on record, so well done. I then went over I just followed the Prime Minister this morning on ITV where there was similar reaction for some of the viewers. But, I I just wonder how you're actually going to enforce it.

[00:01:58]This is what the key concern is, and I think the first question might turn to that. So, congratulations, well done. A lot of people in support. My other one point before I go to Michelle, what I also got from my callers is maybe this is actually for the kids now who are 6, 7, 8 more than the kids who are 13, 14, 15. Just address that if you would, Liz Kendall, before we go to the first break. And thanks again for coming in.

[00:02:19]>> Look for children who are currently on this, I think it would be very difficult. They will try and get around it, and many will succeed. I just got to level with people about that. But, if you've got um a child who is, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, it's about changing their expectations, changing the sort of social norm. You won't be on till you're 16. So, I think this is as much about future generations uh and shifting that behavior as it as it is about today's kids.

[00:02:48]>> Let's get the first caller through.

[00:02:49]Thank you for that. Michelle in Taunton, you're through to Secretary of State. Go ahead, Michelle. Morning to you.

[00:02:53]>> Good morning, Nick. Um thank you for having me. Um so, I have a 13-year-old daughter, and um she's not allowed on social media, but I know a lot of her friends are on social media. So, my question to the minister is how exactly is this ban going to be implemented?

[00:03:13]>> Uh you're right, Michelle. Um children actually, many of the platforms you shouldn't be on until your minimum 13. But, we do know that already 2.5 million are. So, how are we going to enforce this? It'll be for the social media platforms to make sure that they verify kids' ages. Now, already there are what are called highly effective age verification measures for adults. They could be passport, driving license, um credit card. There may be sort of checks they do via open banking or emails associated with other age-verified uh activities. Now, not all of those will be right or suitable or available to 16-year-olds.

[00:03:59]And also, the sort of facial recognition currently does work well for 18 plus, but not so good around the 15-16 age.

[00:04:10]So, we've asked Ofcom, who's the regulator, to look at what more we can do in terms of verifying young people.

[00:04:17]There are other things available like the sort of the the post office has something called a pass card, which is much cheaper than a passport. And there's a whole other bunch of things we're looking at, but this is a a big question, and we want to make sure that we come forward with further details on that before there's a vote in Parliament on the ban.

[00:04:36]>> Are children going to get into trouble?

[00:04:38]Are parents going to get into trouble, or is it just the online companies?

[00:04:41]>> tech companies. Look, we already have the ability on the under the online safety act to fine companies who break the law up to 10% of their qualifying worldwide revenue. And if they repeatedly break the law, Ofcom can apply to the courts to disrupt their business, basically stop it from being available in the UK. You know, we're going to finalize our plans on the consequences for companies who that don't actually meet the legislation, but I think that shows indicates our direction of travel.

[00:05:11]>> I'll come back to that in a moment.

[00:05:12]Quick response from you, Michelle, before I move on to the next caller.

[00:05:14]Michelle.

[00:05:15]>> Yes, Nick. Well, thank you very much.

[00:05:17]That does clear things up. Thank you.

[00:05:19]>> Brilliant. Okay.

[00:05:20]Secretary of State, you mentioned Ofcom.

[00:05:22]We've done some research. I want to ask you how you how robust you think Ofcom is because we have done as I say some work here, and we understand that well, up until March this year, £3 million of fines have been levied. We understand it now, total of £5 million across eight companies. And the figure for actual payment comes in at 55,000 pounds. Ofcom hasn't got teeth. Why would it be any different now?

[00:05:45]>> Well, that's right. They've got a new chair coming in, Ian Cheshire, and I have spoken to him at length and written to him formally to say I need an urgent review of their enforcement capabilities because we need to get tougher here.

[00:06:00]Absolutely.

[00:06:01]>> What does tougher look like?

[00:06:02]>> I think that we need to make sure that if if fines are given and they're not paid, we have to take it to the next step. And I also believe that they need to do far more to move far more quickly on this. So, they'll come up they will review their capabilities. I've also asked them to do a clear strategy on enforcement, to publish it to Parliament, and a new annual report on progress. We need the regulator to work here.

[00:06:31]>> It's not working.

[00:06:32]>> It needs to do much more.

[00:06:34]>> working, is >> It's not There's some things they have done that are good, but I have been clear they need to do far more, and I believe that the new chair will take that action forward.

[00:06:43]>> Lastly on this before we move on.

[00:06:45]Pamela, you'll be the next caller. You may be aware of the US messaging platform 4chan, the number four channel.

[00:06:51]Ofcom have found against them, finding them 520,000 pounds, to which the response has been from their lawyers an AI-generated cartoon of a hamster.

[00:07:01]They're laughing at us, aren't they?

[00:07:03]>> Yeah, and therefore we need to take further action. And I will you know, we need to make sure that those companies that repeatedly repeatedly >> fail well, I'm sure you could get Ofcom on here. I'm having discussions with them behind the scenes, and I'm sure your listeners will understand. I believe the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and they need to do more.

[00:07:25]>> What's the deadline for them to really get We're you giving to the end of the year to really get cracking?

[00:07:30]>> Yeah, because you know, this this is >> me in the eye and say by the end of this year there will be a more robust approach, Secretary of State.

[00:07:36]>> Absolutely, because this ban is going to come in in early 2027.

[00:07:43]They're going to continue enforcing the Online Safety Act and this new ban. I want that review of their capabilities.

[00:07:50]If they've got problems, if they want to say to us we need more strength in the law, I am always prepared to look at that. But where we are isn't good enough. We've got to go further.

[00:07:58]>> Let's go to other calls. Pamela's in York. Go ahead, Pamela. You want to talk about the education aspect. Good morning.

[00:08:03]>> Good morning. Nice to speak to you.

[00:08:04]Hello, Liz. Um, as a teacher I use YouTube quite frequently. I'm wondering if YouTube is included in the ban.

[00:08:15]And if it is, why that's necessary.

[00:08:19]>> Thanks [snorts] for that really important question. So, we're going to use the model that Australia has. And under the Australian model, YouTube is included. And I understand lots of people say but not YouTube Kids isn't included in that.

[00:08:36]But what we do want to do is to have a a list, a clear, clearly, narrowly defined list of exemptions, which includes specific educational services, music streaming, and e-commerce platforms because we don't want those covered by the ban. You might not agree with that, but I we have seen on balance the risks more widely with YouTube. I think outweigh some of the benefits that people say. But if companies want to come forward with services that don't fall under the model of social media used by Australia, which by the way is user-to-user sharing where users can create content underpinned by an algorithm. If they want to come forward with services that don't meet that criteria, that just focus on educational content, they are of course perfectly free to do so.

[00:09:31]>> Well, let's go back to the teacher, but you're aware one of your colleagues Rose Writing says she needed YouTube to pass her exams. There is concern there.

[00:09:37]Pamela, your response to the Secretary of State, Pamela?

[00:09:41]>> Um uh well, I I I am very pleased about the ban as a teacher because I I you know, I I've seen the effects and the consequences of of of of what we've had. Um I just wondered is it because is is the ban because of the the chat room type features on on YouTube?

[00:10:00]>> Yeah, it is and the algorithms too.

[00:10:03]That's under the Australian model, they are up the updated model, they're part of it. They They weren't covered initially. So, none of these Where you draw the line is never simple. It sounds simple, but it's not. But what we're saying is uh on balance, we think the risks of that are greater than the benefits. But I'm sure that other educational services that really are so important to teachers. And I've had a I've Pamela, you know, in my own constituency in Leicester, I've spoken to so many teachers who want the ban.

[00:10:35]And you two have said that and I think that's an important voice to listen to.

[00:10:40]>> Let's just mention thanks, Pamela, before we go to the next caller. Alan, you're the next caller. Um you've mentioned some of the suppliers or whatever. Will WhatsApp and Telegram be spared from the ban?

[00:10:47]>> So, messaging services, Snapchat is in uh in under the Australian model and WhatsApp um Telegram and Signal are not.

[00:10:56]>> Why not?

[00:10:57]>> Because on messaging services, uh lots of parents who responded to the consultat- Parents do want to message their kids.

[00:11:06]>> Yes.

[00:11:06]>> Kids want to message their parents and their families.

[00:11:09]>> be aware we can now discuss the fact that Telegram was used to spread the lies that led to the fires at the Prime Minister's personal property.

[00:11:15]>> Uh >> We can now say that been through the court.

[00:11:18]>> Whatever is in the court, we can comment on, but not the other issues around it.

[00:11:22]But we are not Our intention is not to cover messaging services in this because parents do want to contact their kids and their family mem- members. And so do children want to contact their friends.

[00:11:35]We've got this plan to use the Australian definition um and so messaging services aren't included >> Australia a number of times. Our next caller is from Australia. Alan is in Adelaide and you're through to the British Secretary of State. Go ahead, Alan. Good morning.

[00:11:48]>> Hello. Good afternoon, actually. It's half past 5:00. It's quarter to 6:00. Um just a uh a question for Minister. What lessons are you uh taking from the Australian social media ban?

[00:11:58]>> Hello, Alan in Adelaide. Uh is it nice there?

[00:12:02]>> It's beautiful.

[00:12:02]>> It's It's pretty No, it's it's winter.

[00:12:05]>> Oh, it's pretty cold.

[00:12:06]>> It's relative.

[00:12:07]>> Um so um uh we Mar uh one of my ministers, the Minister for Online Safety, uh Kanishka Narayanan went to Australia to look at what's happening. And I think the point about kids getting around the ban was one of the biggest lessons because I don't think they've used these more effective age verification measures, which is what we plan to do. But, it was also very much this point that um the onus is very clearly on the platforms, not the parents or the kids.

[00:12:39]Uh I think that's important. But, critically, the changing future expectations and behavior, those were the three biggest lessons I think we've learned from Australia. How have you seen it working in practice?

[00:12:51]>> Well, well, actually, my eldest daughter is a secondary school school teacher in a free-paying school in Adelaide and she's she's her her comments when I was talking to her about it recently was that the the double whammy was actually making sure that children or students had to lock their phones in a locker or leave them at home. I noticed on the BBC website there was statistics uh that it said there's about 30% of uh UK students are not allowed phones at school because they have to leave them in a locker.

[00:13:21]But, many of them, the majority, either have to leave them in their pocket or in their bag, which they still they still use them at at uh break and recess and lunch time.

[00:13:30]>> So we've just made the guidance to schools saying no phones used in school statutory.

[00:13:39]I've been to visit a lot of schools not only my own ones in Leicester but elsewhere and teachers really when they've done that they have really started to see changes in behavior greater greater concentration greater focus. So I think you know we need to take I've never said the ban is like a silver bullet that's going to solve everything. We need to look at you know guidance about screen times. We've got to stop those phones being used in school and there's other measures we need to take but teachers have overwhelmingly been in support of the ban but there's other steps we need to take too.

[00:14:14]>> look at the Australian example there nudging three quarters of Australian teens already back on social media. Why would it be any different in the UK?

[00:14:21]>> Because we will be using these more effective age verification measures that they don't use in Australia.

[00:14:26]>> Well you the companies will the relevant companies will.

[00:14:28]>> media companies >> You've got to have a stick with which to beat them if I may use that language.

[00:14:35]>> I don't think all of this is simple and easy but you know kids get around smoking drinking going to clubs we've all done it you know that's what kids do but it doesn't mean to say we don't have rules.

[00:14:48]>> Okay Alan thank you can I before I move on to my next caller look at the aspect and I will a lot I think of teenagers and there will be discussions with their parents over last night and this use of VPNs virtual private networks. Isn't the reality as my technology correspondent LBC Will Guyatt pointed out that you can switch within seconds to a VPN. How are you going to prevent that Secretary of State?

[00:15:09]>> So I told MPs yesterday I'm going to come back to the house on a statement on the issue of VPNs in July.

[00:15:17]There's very strong views on both sides of this. For some people it is about privacy.

[00:15:23]And it is the ability to use that is really held strongly by people. Um and for others, they say they should be banned because kids are using them to get around.

[00:15:35]And so I the the main thing that we've done is we've commissioned additional research on this because I've not been happy with the evidence >> What do you What aspect do you Because you know there's been a 170% lift in research on VPNs last night. So you know it's young 170 So we know what kids are already And that's what kids do. That That's the joy of having teenagers.

[00:15:55]>> It is, but you know, we still adults decide. That's what we're here for.

[00:16:01]>> So how are you going to block VPNs? I don't know how you're going to do it.

[00:16:04]>> So so I will you will just have to bear with me on this. There is a number of things I've said I'm going to come back.

[00:16:09]One is VPNs. The other is whether there should be additional restrictions like default on curfews and breaks in infinite scrolling for 16- and 17-year-olds. And also I need to look more. We've taken some initial initial steps on these AI chatbots banning the sexualized companion chatbots. But there's more to do there. So Uh there is yeah, there's more I've got to say in July.

[00:16:34]>> surely through the autumn and because we you've got until Christmas for the legislation to pass as I understand it.

[00:16:38]>> taken the power all that you know how long bills take to pass, right? Patience is not my greatest virtue.

[00:16:48]>> Right.

[00:16:49]>> So we have already taken the power to implement this ban in the Children's Act, which means I have to lay regulations. It's called There'll be a vote on the floor of the house and so before Christmas so it can be implemented early 2027.

[00:17:04]>> It's worth mentioning actually for again families or for those who are 16 or 17, features such as live streaming, communication with strangers would be turned off by default under this new legislation. Is that correct as I understand it?

[00:17:15]>> for under-16s and turned off by default for 16 and 17 year olds. And the reason for this is we heard a lot of worries MPs, campaigners and the police about strangers communicating with children via game gaming.

[00:17:31]And we want we don't want gaming included in the blanket ban, but we do want that specific function because of the risks of grooming and child abuse.

[00:17:40]Because what they do is they contact you via the game and then they get you off onto a different service.

[00:17:44]>> So they're not allowed to live stream these people, but they are allowed to vote because you want the vote [clears throat] for 16 year olds. How do we balance those two?

[00:17:51]>> Well, because I think that >> go on social media, but they can determine the future of the country.

[00:17:55]Just seems a bit odd to me, but hey, you'll know more about this than I.

[00:17:58]>> join the army but not watch violent horror films. You know, there are many complicated and they can't place a bet, can they?

[00:18:06]Can they? No, not till you're 18.

[00:18:08]>> No, I don't think they can. They can go in a pub, but they've got to have a lemonade.

[00:18:10]>> They've got So there we are. So there are lots of complications.

[00:18:15]>> Don't put that all that on me as well, Nick.

[00:18:19]>> Uh coming to another caller in just a moment. Were you disappointed that Ian Russell, who I'm sure you want to pay tribute to, lost his 14 year old daughter Molly, says, quotes, "I can't help but think that this is just a rush rush job." Um he's not hugely impressed by you and your prime the prime minister's work yesterday. What would you say to him?

[00:18:36]>> I have great respect for Ian. I have spoken to him many times I won't say a word against him. I just I I disagree that it's this has been rushed. You know, we were we were criticized by the conservatives for doing the consultation and taking too long. Now we're criticized for going so quickly. What I am the thing that really struck me during all of this was the I mean I do think the consultation was a good thing to do because I did want to hear different views and because the response has been so overwhelming. But when some of the other bereaved families said to me every month you delay, more kids are dying and being harmed."

[00:19:16]So, I've tried to balance hearing people's views whilst moving as quickly as I can, and that's where we've ended up.

[00:19:21]>> All right, let's take a couple. Coming to you, Daniel as the next caller. Let's go to social media. We're getting some texts and calls in from and questions.

[00:19:28]Fred in Brixton, "Does Andy Burnham support the under 16s ban? What conversation have you had with him over that?"

[00:19:34]>> So, I think Andy is in favor of restrictions. Um I actually think there's wide support within the Labour Party. The Conservatives agree with the ban. Uh I'm wasn't 100% sure where the Lib Dems were exactly on this.

[00:19:48]>> Right.

[00:19:48]>> Um as often is the case, but uh and the reason I think that's actually much more importantly, I think the public, teachers, police, I think there's broad support for this, which is why I think it will happen and it will last.

[00:20:03]>> And clearly the point I I think this question the question's guessing there is if there were to be a change of the leader at the top of the Labour Party, how confident are you that the new leader would be as supportive as Sir Keir is?

[00:20:14]>> Well, as I said, I think there's wide support in the Labour Party for this.

[00:20:17]There are some people who've >> And you'd be ready to work with Mr. Burnham to ensure >> hope Keir will stay as Prime Minister.

[00:20:22]Um although I'm, you know, cheering Andy on in Wakefield. Really hope that goes well on Thursday. But you know, I think the reason why there is broad support for this within the politicians is because there's broad support with it within the public. So, I want to make it work and make it last.

[00:20:38]>> Last one before we come back to the rules. Rachel in Bexley, "When are you going to do more to try and block people like Elon Musk? Clearly what he did last week meant that people were burned out of their homes in Belfast. What restrictions can be placed on him?" I think she's probably talking about, as I recall, passing on messages from figures such as Tommy Robinson suggesting people should take action and protest repeatedly and loud repeatedly and loud.

[00:20:59]>> violence uh online is illegal just as it is offline. And in fact, um >> Do you think Elon Musk is going to be nervous by that, Liz Kendall?

[00:21:08]>> No, I don't think he'll give a stuff what I say, but I'm I'm going to stand up I'm going to I care about what I think and what's right for the British people and the British law.

[00:21:20]>> laughing actually, isn't he?

[00:21:22]>> water off a duck's back, you know, I don't that that doesn't bother me.

[00:21:25]>> of his global earnings, are you?

[00:21:27]>> Well, if they repeatedly break the law and fail to obey what has been voted for and what is illegal.

[00:21:34]>> putting pictures of hamsters from American firms when you try and find them. They just put them up.

[00:21:38]>> par par for the course.

[00:21:39]>> That's the power that they you seem to have.

[00:21:41]>> You know, but I you know, when they go low >> Are you concerned? How concerned are you about it?

[00:21:45]>> go high. We go high.

[00:21:48]>> are you by the activities of people such as Elon Musk where I think it's fair to say I can suggest they did fuel tension last week.

[00:21:54]>> I think people inciting violence on it is illegal and this week in Parliament we're laying new codes of practice about that. And let me say this, when Grok X and Elon Musk Musk allowed vile deep fake sexualized images of women and children, we told them enough is enough and they backed down.

[00:22:14]So, watch this space.

[00:22:16]>> Lastly, what about the video of Nigel Farage seeming to assault Andrew Bailey, the governor of the Bank of England, on the Question Time set?

[00:22:21]>> Uh, do you know what? I never clicked on it cuz I thought the minute I do that, I'll just get even more of them. Um, so, we are actually this whole issue of AI deepfakes, um, I think is uh, I mean, not even that deep obviously fake. Uh, I think that is a real concern for people. We're actually, um, we're looking at it at a number of angles, uh, and I think there's more that we can do there to make sure these those things are clearly labeled.

[00:22:48]>> Let's get more calls on. Daniel's in Golders Green and you're through to the Secretary of State. Go ahead, Daniel.

[00:22:52]Morning to you.

[00:22:53]>> Good morning to you, Nick, and good morning, Secretary of State.

[00:22:55]>> Hi.

[00:22:56]>> Hi, Liz. My question to you is, what reassurances can you give the public that this social media ban for under 16 won't lead us down a slippery slope of full-blown government censorship? And lastly, if I may, will Blue Sky also be included in the ban? Thank you.

[00:23:16]>> So, in Australia, Blue Sky is included in the ban and we plan to use their model. I've got no interest in censoring public debate. It's what makes us a brilliant country, a country that I'm proud to be part of our tolerance, respect, vigorous argument. I mean, I was brought up on very strong arguments around our, you know, lunch and dinner table and I think it is one of the things that makes me proud to be British, but this is actually about protecting kids from extreme extreme abuse and exploitation, as well as the sort of chronic harms of anxiety, depression, sleeplessness, and it's concentration.

[00:24:00]So, for me, it's very very important that you know, we continue to be able to have vigorous debates like this.

[00:24:08]>> All right.

[00:24:09]Let's go to a different subject, I think. Daniel, thank you. Al in Glasgow, where do you want to take the Secretary of State? Good morning.

[00:24:15]>> Uh good morning, both. Um right, so I'm an experienced IT analyst and I agree with the UK Science and Technology Committee that Palantir is a security threat.

[00:24:27]Um Trump created a law called the US Cloud Act that supersedes any contract and it means American authorities can seize our data, which includes NHS, defense, and other government data.

[00:24:41]>> Yes.

[00:24:42]>> Germany and other NATO governments are already moving moving away from Palantir.

[00:24:47]>> I've got to move you to your direct question, if I could, sir. What would your question Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. What is the question?

[00:24:53]>> So, will you commit to canceling Palantir contracts and choosing a European alternative.

[00:24:59]>> And before you answer that, I just want to say I spoke to Sir Mark Rowley, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner on this. Liz Kendall, as you probably know.

[00:25:05]This is after the 50 million pound contract with Palantir was blocked by the London Mayor, Sir Sadiq Khan. Sir Mark said this.

[00:25:11]>> I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed mainly because of what it means for policing in London. What would it have allowed for, Commissioner? So, there's two things it was going to help us do.

[00:25:22]Firstly, we've talked about this many times on your on your show, Nick.

[00:25:26]We're a shrinking organization. I've had to reduce by 3,300 people in the last 3 years. We've got to reduce by another 1,150 this year ahead. Without it, those cuts now, many of those cuts, hundreds of cuts are going to fall to frontline services. So, we're going to be reducing frontline services and officers won't in the near future be getting the sophisticated technologies to help them fight crime we hope for.

[00:25:47]>> Where are you on Palantir? It seems hugely controversial sitting there.

[00:25:50]>> it is a hugely controversial issue.

[00:25:53]James Murray, who's the new Health Secretary, is actually reviewing that contract right now before it comes up to for a break clause. I actually do want to see more British companies in the world of technology able to provide services cuz I do think it's really important that we have digitized services in the NHS, the police right across right across our public services so that we can share data more effectively.

[00:26:21]But, it's also extremely important that that privacy is there. My understanding of the contract is it absolutely keeps people's data safely and keeps it very, very private.

[00:26:32]But, you know, James is looking at the contract.

[00:26:34]>> But, you're you're Secretary of State for Innovation and Technology. And this covers, as you'll be aware, the MOD, the Department of Health, the Home Office, the FCA, the Financial Conduct. So, this does track back to you. How relaxed or otherwise are you with Palantir?

[00:26:46]>> I I mean, my overall total body language is I want more British companies being able to provide these services cuz we're investing a lot in them and I want to keep that money, keep those jobs here in the UK. You'll forgive me on the NHS point, which is what >> Yes, of course.

[00:27:02]But the MCA, I can push you on that. You are science, innovation, and technology.

[00:27:05]How relaxed are you with Palantir? You would rather see British firms supply.

[00:27:08]>> I would rather see more British I mean, we've made a big decisive move towards backing more British companies. I want, you know, the money that taxpayers' money ideally spent as much as possible on British companies for British jobs here. Um but I would say this point about keeping people's data and privacy safe is a real concern and it's, you know, one I think we've got to be very careful of.

[00:27:30]>> Last minute or so together. Al, thank you for your call. Kay, you're in Nine Elms. You're through. I sense you'll be the last caller, too. Let's go Liz Kendall. Go ahead, Kay. Morning.

[00:27:38]>> Good morning. First-time caller, so go easy on me.

[00:27:41]>> Hold notes at W City. [laughter] Go ahead. Thanks so much.

[00:27:44]>> Okay, I want to know what the lady is going to do about age verification. The only reason why I say that is because me and my daughter, who's age nine, was having a chat yesterday when um Keir Starmer gave the proposal that he's going to bar, and she said to me, "Oh, I was on Roblox. I want to go, and I took a picture of you for age verification."

[00:28:08]>> Right.

[00:28:09]>> Now, she goes to a private school, which she only has 16 children in her class cuz there's only one year group. What are they going to do about the age verification? Cuz if my daughter can do that, and she said that everybody does it in her class, they just take a picture of their of their parent because Roblox had changed it for age verification, why are adults on Roblox, one, and how can What are they going to do about the age verification?

[00:28:38]>> This is these workarounds, I think, Kay.

[00:28:40]Let's go straight to the Secretary of State.

[00:28:42]>> You know, your entrepreneurial daughter, um you know, it just shows what young people do. So, um I have no doubt young people will try and succeed in getting around this.

[00:28:56]>> What are you doing just at that specific point? What can you do about taking your mom's picture?

[00:29:00]>> So, I think they may we will look at whether you have to have more than one thing here to check the age whether there is whether there there are you know, 85% I think of 16 to 17-year-olds have passports.

[00:29:15]>> Yeah, but we're below 16s here, aren't we?

[00:29:17]>> but that's but you have to prove you're 16.

[00:29:20]There are there's also something called the it's a pass card provided by the post office that's not as expensive as a passport. It's still about £15 which can prove if you're under 16, over 16, or over 80.

[00:29:34]>> rock up to a post office and get that.

[00:29:35]>> You say but you'd have to provide your verification there. So, so I think that there's a number of things that I'm trying to say I think we can do more.

[00:29:45]But I'm not going to claim in advance that this is going to be sort of all perfect, but Kay, what is I don't know if Kay's there. What do you think about the overall ban, Kay?

[00:29:55]>> Oh, I think it's I I think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic that the government has done this because I'm nearly 50 years old.

[00:30:03]>> Right.

[00:30:04]>> And my daughter is like I had her quite late.

[00:30:08]>> Right.

[00:30:08]>> But I'm just thinking to myself I when I grew up in the '80s like we didn't have technology and >> definitely didn't think it's rotting >> children's brains.

[00:30:19]>> I I think that's the thing, you know, we we there's bad stuff, you know, when you're growing up that you're struggling with.

[00:30:26]But at least when you got home you didn't have it in your pocket all the time. Um you had breaks and you >> now as a kid? And if not, why not?

[00:30:37]>> Um I don't want to go through any more exams or first love and being ignored on you know calling someone and all that anxiety.

[00:30:48]>> Just give me their name this Kendall.

[00:30:49]>> I don't. I remember him very well and he shall remain nameless but all of that so because you're trying to deal with that in your body and what you look like and how hard it is at school and then you got social media on top of that everyone doing a like for you or what you should look like.

[00:31:05]The whole thing. I think let's just it's interesting the final thing I'll say is >> When I heard the Australian minister who brought in their ban talking about it she said you know it's just saying to kids for 36 more months you're not going to be on it.

[00:31:21]>> Yeah.

[00:31:21]>> It might seem like life or death to loads of young people which is 36 >> But if you're 12 but if you're 12 that's your lifetime and >> It is but you know um you know you can contact people you can have a good life without it. Let's just give them a bit more space to to be kids.

[00:31:36]>> you. I have to take you to other political matters. There seems to be a bit of a row going on over the level of defense spending. Would you be ready to surrender some of your budget to Nandy New man Dan Jarvis?

[00:31:45]>> I think keeping our yes uh keeping our our our country safe is the most important thing.

[00:31:50]>> You're ready to give some cash out?

[00:31:51]>> Yes.

[00:31:51]>> And is that a feeling across many of your colleagues senior colleagues?

[00:31:55]>> feel that you know the the the threats that we face are of such magnitude >> Healey was right and the Prime Minister was wrong.

[00:32:01]>> No I don't think so. You know these discussions will be >> and Mr. Coons they quit because of that and you're saying they're right and Sir Keir and Rachel Reeves Chancellor are wrong.

[00:32:09]>> Look um I believe both Keir and Jon Healey who I have you know he gave me my first job in Parliament. I I was in a junior in his team when he was Shadow Health Minister and you back in 2012 so I've known him for many many many years. I think um uh these discussions are ongoing without doubt. We need to we have invested more in defense we need to invest even more and we need to be able to fight the battles of the future which is where I've already spoken to Dan about this, technology and AI is so important to that.

[00:32:44]We need to you know, AI is becoming the engine of hard power as well as of economic power.

[00:32:51]So there's much more to come here.

[00:32:53]>> And I know you were listening to a conversation I've been having with many of my listeners about the I know the appalling story of the 13-year-old child who has been murdered by the supposed of adoptive fathers. Just a word on that.

[00:33:03]So many questions to be asked.

[00:33:05]And indeed there have been failures.

[00:33:06]What happens now in a case like this, secretary? I know this isn't your brief.

[00:33:09]>> No, no. I I don't think I've ever read in a anything as bad as this.

[00:33:15]And the thing is you know, if you go through adoption, you are asked lots of really personal questions. You are, your friends are.

[00:33:25]Something's gone badly wrong here. So I think they will once the case is through this there'll be a serious case review.

[00:33:32]But without doubt these people have covered up and we've got to get to the bottom of why we why was there anything we could have done to spot this cuz it's one of the worst things I've ever read.

[00:33:44]>> The child was 13 months, I might have said 13 weeks. Sentencing takes place on Thursday and then a review will be launched, you're right. This kind of has been a pleasure having you here. Thank you very much indeed. The devil is a very in the detail and I wish you well with that. But as we've touched on Makerfield, we must now listen to all the colleagues all the candidates, I'm sorry, from my colleague LBC's George Ellison.

[00:34:01]>> Jake Austin for the Liberal Democrats, Count Binface for the Count Binface Party, Andy Burnham representing Labour and the Cooperative Party, Dan Clark for the Libertarian Party, John Dyer Independent, Ed Gemmell Climate Party, Paul Gould Independent, Howling Lord Hope the official Monster Raving Loony Party, Rob Kenyon for Reform UK, Rob Pownall Independent, Rebecca Shepherd Restore Britain, Sarah Wakefield the Green Party, Peter Ward for Rejoin EU, and Michael Winstanley for the Conservative and Unionist Party.

[00:34:38]>> Undoubtedly my favorite part of the day.

[00:34:40]It's 9:36 LBC News time then, Dominic Ellis.

[00:34:44]>> The technology secretary has told Nick that she's ordered an urgent review of Ofcom's enforcement capabilities to keep young people safe online. Speaking to LBC's Call the Cabinet, Liz Kendall admitted the online watchdog isn't doing enough to hold tech firms to account when rules are broken. Ms. Kendall has also told Nick that she's actively looking at measures to enhance age checks for the new social media ban for under 16s, which are due to come into force next year.

[00:35:09]LBC can exclusively reveal the police force involved in the Henry Novak case is also under investigation over its handling of a serial rapist. The IOPC watchdog says it's assessing claims Hampshire police ignored warnings about Bruno Salap. And the new defense secretary, Dan Jarvis, has told LBC that Britain must use all tools at its disposal to tackle severe and acute national threats. Mr. Jarvis replaced John Healey last week after he quit the cabinet in a row over future military spending. LBC weather, outbreaks of rain across Northern Ireland, Scotland, and the north of England. Some sunny spells for Central Wales and the south of England, a high of 24°.

[00:35:49]>> This is LBC.

[00:35:52]>> Welcome back to this summer's tournament coverage with BetMGM, where every game's the main event.

[00:35:57]>> Can you guess the game of the tournament so far?

[00:36:58]>> I'm I'm wants to make sure that Ofcom do more on that. And she basically says that she's ordered an entire review of how Ofcom work. We know that when we're speaking to Will Guy, our tech expert yesterday, that he was saying that just 50k of the millions of pounds of fines that Ofcom have have already given out and have actually been collected. So clearly this is a big part of that. But actually I thought listening to her answers on things like VPNs, the government clearly haven't made up their minds on what they're going to do about VPNs, about auto scrolling, about curfews. And your point to her that you put it to her that you know, 16 and 17-year-old 17-year-olds will essentially be able to vote. They will be able to go into a pub, but they will not be able to go on on social media or not in the in the full form.

[00:37:37]>> [laughter] >> They can get married. Exactly. Your parents' permission. In Scotland you can get married from from the age of 16. So it does set up this Don't you dare go online. Exactly. It does set up this very odd odd equivalents between all of those two things and you know, it just shows goes to show that the sort of the age of being an adult in this country is different for all of these different things. So the government have to get that right. But on the idea of social media restrictions, lots of the chat in Westminster over the last 24 hours has been, well, is Keir Starmer going to be around to implement it? And you did ask the question, does Andy Burnham support it? And she said I do I do you think it has wide support within the Labour Party? So can we assume that should Andy Burnham should anything happen with Andy Burnham and a potential challenge in in terms of the Labour Party, will he be able to push this through? I think there is wide enough support in the Labour Party that that will be the case. And finally, Nick, I thought her interesting answer was very interesting on defense spending at the very, very end of that.

[00:38:26]Basically saying, yes, I do need So, we do need to do more to keep our country safe, and I am prepared to give up part of my budget in order to fund that. We know that Dan Jarvis, and I was speaking to him this morning, said that the defense of course is his number one priority, and he's doing all he can to try to get as much money as possible.

[00:38:42]We do know that all of the cabinet ministers have all agreed to have a slither of their budgets taken off already. Will Liz Kendall be in discussions with Dan Jarvis about even more? That's the question, Nick.

[00:38:53]>> LBC's political editor, Natasha Clark, reporting now. Let's come back to the story with which we started both of ours. To me, it is of such magnitude.

[00:39:00]The teacher found guilty of a child's murder. A lot of you have been asking the background of this little lad, Alfie Evans, who died aged 13 months. Just to give you some of that, he was put up for adoption because his mother was a convicted murderer who was actually in jail [clears throat] when he was born.

[00:39:14]And his maternal grandmother couldn't, unfortunately, look after the boy because she had a diagnosis of cancer.

[00:39:21]So, everything was really going against this poor little chap who then was adopted out to this murderous pair.

[00:39:27]Now, the the brutal attacks that I'm have to say, and we'll tread carefully because there could be young ears, and the high level of sexual assault was led by Jamie Vardy. Here's