Al Carns MP: Keir Starmer Failing UK Defence | Russian Warship Incident Exposes Truth

[00:00:00]involving a warning volley from a ship that had escorted shadow tankers. This is a Russian war ship firing warning shots at a British yacht in the English Channel. Well, for reaction for this, we're joined by Al K's MP. He was until last week the armed services minister, defense minister, who joins us now. Al, thank you for your company this evening.

[00:00:19]What do you make of what has happened here?

[00:00:22]>> Well, I think this is um very serious incident. You have one of the busiest shipping channels in the world. You have foggy conditions. you have a major uh Russian warship, a frigot, the Admiral Kagorovich. Um, and you have the, you know, the firing of probably heavy caliber rounds across the bow of a British yacht. Um, and I always say that, you know, conflicts often start through miscalculations or mistakes. Uh, and you know, we we just reund or underscores the requirement to make sure our defense is funded and we're ready to go. What I will say is I know Dan Jarvis, the new Secretary of State for Defense is exceptionally capable, huge military pedigree and him and his team will be looking at this very very closely to make sure um that one it doesn't happen again and two um it's carefully calculated into future plans.

[00:01:11]>> You mentioned Dan Jarvis there, the new defense secretary. You say he's a good man, but does he have enough money to do the job? Well, I've been really clear um and I've said this and this is one of the reasons why I resigned that I think we need to hit 3% by 2030. Um and so I would say you need more money, but I've also been really honest that we've got to spend that money on the right things and we need to start thinking about defense not just about warships, but we need or planes or bullets or bombs. We need to start thinking about national resilience as a whole. And this just again underscores the height and tensions we have. We have war in Europe.

[00:01:44]you on your program earlier you had the Middle East crisis um and the peace deal which will require military capability um and all of these combined we have reports of you know Russian links in some way shape or form to those attacks on Kier's house combine that with misinformation cyber attacks ongoing this is a whole of society problem and we need to deal with it as such >> you talked about total security security in lots of different ways in your speech today I watched the whole thing uh you talked about it being different parts of the same challenge could you perhaps expand expand on that theme a little bit.

[00:02:16]>> Yeah. So the ultimate end state of our country is to ensure that we can prosper um that we are secure and safe whether we be uh whether be the citizen of the country as a whole. Um and therefore my perspective is that each government department has a role to play in that to ensure that we are safe and secure. That could be anything from cadetses on one side of the of the house all the way through to our foreign policy which directly affects the price of gas that comes through your kitchen hobs all the way through to industrial policy that must be able to deliver the capabilities for defense but also directly has implications for your child's future and I think you need to be all wound together into a strategy to deliver comprehensive approach uh for the next three to four years where the rest of Europe has said by 2030 it's very likely that we will be tested in some way shape perform.

[00:03:02]>> I just want to play a short extract from something I'm particularly interested in as someone from Northern Ireland and someone who worked at the Northern Ireland office as a special adviser.

[00:03:11]This is the Northern Ireland Veterans Bill. You talked about this in your speech today. Let's have a look at what you said.

[00:03:16]>> And thirdly, I left because I could no longer ignore the continued failure to address the treatment of our veterans in Northern Ireland.

[00:03:24]>> It's a difficult issue and I cannot describe how difficult this fight has been. Whatever the view people have of the troubles, a country owes a duty to those sent into harm's way under lawful orders. That duty does not end when that uniform comes off. The labor movement was built on a simple idea that the people who do the hard work this country asks of them deserves the backing of the state in return. Too many veterans have carried uncertainty for too long, while others have benefited from political accommodations that were never available to those who served. and I could not reconcile that with my own understanding of duty.

[00:04:03]>> I read your resignation letter, Al, and I don't think I've ever read a resignation letter that is as strong and as excruiating as it. The speech wasn't far behind, but you defended this policy in public for a significant period of time when people strongly suspected that it wasn't what you were saying. Why did you not feel that you could be open about it? Obviously, collective responsibility is an important thing and I suppose you wanted to work behind the scenes to fix it, but presumably there were a lot of people who were quite disappointed in your public stance for quite a serious amount of time on that.

[00:04:38]>> Yeah. So, first of all, let's point to my public stance on defending the bill recently. Uh there isn't one. Uh to start with I defended bits of the bill because I got six protections into the bill but it became very clear to me as we looked into the detail of the legislation that was being proposed that it never went far enough. Now I'm a big fan of fighting within the tent for change regressive change to come to a solution. Your voice is sometimes stronger in government. I got to a position uh probably about a month and maybe two months ago where I found that my voice was no longer being listened to and I didn't think I could deliver the change. Uh and as such uh it's one of the reasons why I resigned because I need to be really honest with both myself and the veterans. And if I've lost trust in the system to deliver that legislation, how could I honestly look veterans in the face and ask them to trust it? Now all is not lost because there is room for maneuver here and I think there is a solution where we can create one body that gets to truth, reconciliation and justice. Um and there is an avenue to work through this. What I what we need to do is take into account the voices of veterans and ensure that I always say tactics before strategy is the noise before defeat and we must ensure that our moral and ethical code is in the right direction and secondly that we're not playing into the hands of those that would seek Northern to pull away from the United Kingdom or indeed anything else.

[00:06:03]>> And you mentioned that in your speech as well. So on the 29th of April when you didn't vote in that when you were absent from parliament that wasn't a coincidence.

[00:06:12]>> So I went to visit uh our RAF regiment who were in uh part of the Middle East that were in the very mix of the fight and I I deployed out there um to go and see them and then went on a broader Middle East um trip to meet our allies and partners in particular talking about the preparations for what may come after a Middle East peace deal. Um, and hey, I got a lot of abuse from not turning up to the vote. Um, but you will know as well as I know if you're a government minister, you often have to vote with the government as well. And if you don't, you have to resign. And if you have to resign, you can't then fight for that bill within government. The reality is I was already traveling by the time the decision for the paper orders came out.

[00:06:54]>> Okay.

[00:06:55]>> But the the the real the reality is I always talk about strategy. I could have resigned months ago on this issue. Um, but it would have reduced my ability to fight for the progressive change that I think we've achieved. I now need a little bit more out of the government before I'm willing to back the bill as it moves forward.

[00:07:10]>> You stopped uh being listened to, you said a month or two ago. Who stopped listening to you? John Healey, Kier Armor, Rachel Re.

[00:07:18]>> Remember this isn't a defense bill. This is a Northern Ireland office bill. Um, >> Hillary B, he stopped listening to you.

[00:07:25]>> The the system stopped listening. And so I wanted >> The system is people. Which people stopped listening to you? I'm not going to talk to you about the massinations inside government. I think there are some privileges that are required um inside the system. What I can say to you is I became increasingly frustrated with the inability to change this bill for the better. I also didn't like in some cases how um we were trading bits of the bill on what I would call uh veterans.

[00:07:50]And I really wanted to see some quite quite simple changes uh to the bill that made it fit for purpose. And I don't think we're far I actually don't think we're far away from that. But there are we've created a hierarchy of truth. You have legacy inquest and inquiries ongoing and then you have a centralized legacy commission. Why have we created two bodies to get to truth reconciliation and justice? Because if I'm a victim of either the British forces or indeed a victim of a terrorist action, I always want an inquest or an inquiry which undermines your legacy commission. Do what South Africa did.

[00:08:23]Create one legacy commission that gets truth, reconciliation, justice. And if they find wrongdoing, then absolutely move it to an inquest or an inquiry.

[00:08:32]Don't do it the other way round.

[00:08:34]>> Okay. What happens in the next few weeks? Because there are a lot of whatifs, aren't there? What if Andy Burnham wins in Meccerfield on Thursday?

[00:08:41]What if there's a Labor leadership contest? If there is one, will you join it?

[00:08:47]>> Well, I've been really clear. I want a policy debate. So, I um we've got one shot to to get this right as we run into three years into a general election. And I want to see a clear and concise policy debate that talks about how we're going to close with the problems this country has. Have the courageous and honest discussion with the population and then move out on one foot um you know all in synchronization and make that change.

[00:09:10]And if we are not courageous and bold um we risk falling into the trap of a reformed Conservative government in 29 and Scottish independence by 31. And we won't be dealing with borders and budgets and economies. We'll be dealing with the breakup of this kingdom. And I think it is completely and utterly reckless not to be as bold and courageous as we can be.

[00:09:32]>> Well, well, I'm delighted to hear a Labour MP talk and be very clear that he's a unionist because that often isn't the case. And I'm delighted to hear that. Not just >> I fought for this country. I didn't fight for any part of it. I'm a proud Scotsman, but I didn't fight for Scotland, England, Wales, or Northern Ireland. I fought for the United Kingdom. Um, and I will continue.

[00:09:49]>> Sure. You're a proud unionist when it comes to Scotland, and you're a proud unionist when it comes to Northern Ireland. I am absolutely >> excellent. Glad to hear it. Uh not often you hear that particularly from Labor.

[00:09:58]Uh you talk about I've been very clear but you kind of haven't been clear because you didn't answer my question whether you would join a leadership debate. If you want a policy debate surely a megaphone within that is to attempt to become leader of the Labor Party. You talked about being brave and courageous. Surely if you've been an MP just for two years but have this huge public profile. surely brave and courageous would be as you have been many many times on the military in the military aspect a little tiny bit in politics would be to uh attempt to become leader of the Labor party.

[00:10:27]>> So Dan, hey I uh huge credit to you to try and force this. The reality is every every decision is based on a multitude of different factors and I don't feel those factors have been met yet before I make a decision. I'm a pretty calculated guy. I know how to plan. I know strategy.

[00:10:42]>> But you're mulling it over >> and and my uh I don't Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:46]mulling um but actually you've got to meet a certain amount of decisions before it will trigger um quite a major decision from myself and I've been but the base common denominator is this country deserves a policy debate an honest one of how we are going to move forward and if we don't have that we risk uh bumbling along >> should Kier Sarmmer and Rachel Reeves have any role in a future government if there is change >> do not underestimate the from my perspective and the public perception may be something else but do not underestimate the hard work that is going on in government every day against significant headwinds. Um these are good people trying their very best and I know the country you know the political class is not liked um you know across society at the moment but I cannot describe to you how hard they are fighting to try and do the best um and we are facing political uh broader um geopolitical headwinds that we probably haven't faced in a long time. We just had a Russian ship of the south coast of Dorset firing rounds across an English channel. 15 billion worth of cyber attacks. Middle East war you Ukraine has 1.5 million Russian casualties which is affecting the markets all over the world and so on and so on.

[00:11:55]>> Um just a final question al when it comes to uh labor you talk about them doing their best and working very hard.

[00:12:01]When it comes to Kier Smer and Rachel Reeves and others in your view what do you think has actually been achieved by this Labor government in the last two years? So I think there's a huge amount.

[00:12:09]Remember I'm a firm believer that you know um labor was chiseled out the mines. It was hammered in the shipyards across you know govern Liverpool Belfast and it was forged in the factories in the industrial revolution. Um the reality is the workers rights bill the renters rights act and then moving into the two child benefit cap. Well which gets a lot of scrutiny but in the reality it lists 450,000 children out of poverty. And I think having a country in this day and age has child poverty to the extent of which it does is an utter disgrace. And I see it in Birmingham every day. I have a surgery. Al Karns, thank you for joining us. Appreciate that. He's the Labour MP, former armed forces minister. Thanks for joining us on the program this evening. And uh Richard in touch and says Putin is laughing because he watched Starmer give all our money and weapons to Zilinsky and left us wide open to anything.