Municipal governance involves structured decision-making processes where elected officials balance competing community needs through public hearings, committee reviews, and voting procedures. Effective municipal governance requires transparent financial management, community engagement through public comment periods, and consideration of diverse perspectives including those of marginalized groups. The Northampton City Council demonstrates this through its structured meeting format, including public comment periods with time limits, consent agenda approvals, and committee referrals for ordinance review. Key governance principles include maintaining fiscal responsibility while addressing infrastructure needs, ensuring accessibility for all residents, and fostering community trust through transparent decision-making processes.
Northampton City Council | Jun 18, 2026
Added:Hi everybody. Welcome to the June 18th, 2026 meeting of the Northampton City Council. I'm Vice President Debbie Clur and I will be presiding this evening. Uh councelor Council President Mayori will join us later this evening. Um Laura, roll call, please, to open the meeting.
Councelor Davis >> present.
>> Councelor Dobs >> here.
>> Councelor Cleur >> here.
>> Councelor Loiselle >> here.
>> As we said, councelor Mayori will join later. Um, councelor Nabad >> present.
>> Councelor Perry >> here.
>> Councelor Robbins >> present.
>> And councelor Stratton.
>> Oh. Oh, that's him. Okay. Absent for roll call. Um, Madame Chair, you have a quorum.
>> There he is.
Oh, councelor Stratton. Okay. Well, C counter is present on roll call. Um, you have a call.
>> Thank you, Laura. Um, this meeting is being audio and video recorded.
Um, the meeting and all participating in person and on Zoom will be audio and video recorded.
The meeting can also be watched on com Comcast channel 15 or by streaming on Northampton Open Media YouTube channel.
Um we have a public hearing um announcement a public hearing on 26.044 National Grid petition to install so pole on Cordicelli Street to provide service to 140 Pine Street petition number 310231306.
Per MGL um chapter 166 section 22, the Northampton City Council will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, July 15, 2026 at 6:30 p.m. by remote participation or teleconference on 26.044 National Grid petition to install so pole on Cordicelli Street to provide service to 140 Pine Street. Um, instructions for accessing the hearing remotely may be found on the July 15, 2026 city council agenda posted to www.northamptonmma.gov no later than 48 hours prior to the meeting. The city council will hear all part persons who wish to be heard. Um, and then um just a reminder that July 15th is our next meeting. Um, we and it will only be remote. We don't Um it'll be our next full meeting um of the council.
>> Oh that next week we're meeting it's a little mini meeting. Our next full meeting is July 15th. Um you we have a summer schedule. We have one meeting in July, one meeting in August.
Everything's remote. Um and but there'll be announcements about that coming up.
Um, now we have public comment and um, if you wish wish to make a public comment, please sign up on the sheet at the podium. If you're on Zoom, use the raise hand feature. The raise hand feature is in the bottom menu bar. Click on react, then raise hand. If you're calling in by phone, you can raise your hand by hitting star9. I'll al alternate between people in the room and people on Zoom. Before you begin, please state your name and your city or town for the public record. And we welcome you to share your pronouns. To ensure everyone has an equal opportunity to speak, the council limits comments to a maximum of two minutes. After two minutes, I'll ask you to finish your sentence. Thank you, Laura. Um, according to the council rules, we do not respond during public comment as it is your time to speak.
Your protected speech is a constitutional right and one that we ask you to wield with consideration and respect for all and with recognition that the public space that grants you that freedom is shared equally by everyone. You may speak on any topic. It doesn't need to be an item on the agenda. All comments are to be directed to the council. Um so in the room first we have Lori Beller Belooi.
>> Okay. Um then we'll go to Annie.
>> Okay. We'll go to Jess.
Um, >> yeah, there you go.
>> Okay. Um, Jess Dawson, she her ward 3 Northampton.
Um, I just wanted to speak in favor of the um discussion today of the acquisition of the CPA funding for the bike path connector on Northern Avenue.
Um, I'm a resident of W 3 and I know that particular cut through gets a lot of traffic all year round. It's very popular. Um, and that neighborhood also does have a lot of older residents and people with mobility issues that probably aren't able to take advantage of it as it is right now. Um, so I just wanted to say I think that would be a real benefit to the neighborhood. Um, and I hope that in the plans there will be some consideration of how that accessibility can be maintained through the winter months as well um, for residents. So, thank you.
>> Thank you.
Um, next we have Dan Bindell. Um, Dan, you can unmute and you can start your video.
Uh, okay. Hey, uh, Dan Brindell, W 3, uh, Northampton. Um I just I want to start by reiterating something that I actually uh began a public comment this term with which is that uh the city and you know it's elected and the government have a trust deficit. Uh if you look through the results from the last election we have a mayor who was clearly running on some very specific policies came through paper thin margin maybe the lowest ever in the city. Um almost every member of this council received more votes than the mayor. Many of you guys carried wards that the mayor actually lost. So we have a very divided city and a lot of that is because of distrust and I think a lot of that distrust comes from the way that we handle finances. We spend a lot on big projects or put aside a lot for big projects and meanwhile sort of everyday things like when you send your kid to school or where you're trying to get down the sidewalk. People in this city know firsthand the city's not spending enough on that. We're not getting the resources that we need. In certain cases we're even breaking the law. And so when we go in knowing that we have that trust deficit and then the mayor announces last week that you guys are going to ask for an override vote next year, they're going to ask us to vote to raise our own taxes. I think it is very clear that what we need you guys to do first is be much more upfront about where the money in the city goes.
And this is apppropo because the finance committee right now is having a bit of a controversy when it comes to hiring an auditor to go through the books. Um, as councelor Robbins revealed during this controversy, our current auditor scan, who's been our auditor for a very long time, didn't even know the term picture Main Street. So, when we talk about a project that we've already spent $4 million on, although that only came out this year, despite that being a constant question during the election, it looks like we're going to be on the hook for another 11 million minimum. The city is discovering new vaults, but we know that that's actually just basement of buildings. And I even knew that running for mayor last year that this was going to be a major problem and a major cost.
We've got a resilience hub where we've already spent time on it >> where we've already spent $3 million on it and from the federal sentence >> and it's being trapped inside of that project. We need you guys to do an upfront audit where you make very clear where the money is going, >> where the money is being spent, and where the money is sitting.
>> And until you can do that, you can't expect the public to vote to give you guys more of our money.
>> Okay. Anybody else in the room um like to speak?
And there's nobody on Zoom. Um, Lori, do you want to go or >> um because we have to keep moving along.
>> What's it >> Can we wait a couple of more minutes for Annie?
>> No, we we need to keep moving. We have a big agenda tonight. And >> can I read her part then, which is very short. Can I be Annie?
>> Yeah. I mean, I don't care who's your read. You know, you have two minutes to talk. So, feel free to read Annie's or yours.
um two minutes, but Annie would use half of that for what this >> Yeah. So, go for it.
>> All right. Say your name and where you're from.
>> Yeah. Laura Belalushi, Northampton, Ward 4, Northampton.
This speck that we are on the global order choose not to address the issue of Elri Harris. I and others stand here month after month mouthing the facts of our complicity, murder and destruction that goes forth from this place that is on the global order. Why?
Denial, privilege, avoidance, money, power, all of the above. But I think we're afraid.
We are afraid to think. Afraid even to deny the existence of our fears. I think we're afraid to cry.
To cry is to give in to meaning.
They say that all fear is the fear of death. And to cry is to admit that we are mortal.
Maybe we're afraid to cry.
Where do the tears go? The ones we deny.
If not released, where do they go?
I'll tell you what I think. The tears collect and collect stored in some vast unseen reservoir. But our denial fueled by that demon fear is so powerful that we spend useless energy leaning against that door.
Unrecognized truths have a way of cracking even the thickest barricades.
Don't we know that from life? And the damn bursts and we drown in the darkened pool of our own deferred tears.
Annie is not here.
>> That's time.
>> There's a very small part she was going to read. That's time though. Um but you know >> can I read what she or do you want to wait for her?
>> That's time. That's time. Two minutes per person. So it >> But I can I be Annie?
>> No.
>> You can't.
>> All right. Well, can we wait?
>> No, we have to keep going.
>> Yes. I I >> You know what? You can you could send it to um Laura though um the city council and then she'll send it to everybody.
>> He may come in a few minutes.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> So, point of order. Um, I I think the chair can extend the time if if they choose to.
>> No.
>> Um, okay. So, I don't see anybody else on Zoom and anyone else in the room.
Last call. Um, okay. Now, we're going to move on to announcements from the counselors and the mayor.
>> Oh. Um, okay. She snuck in under the bell there. Okay. Uh Marie uh hang on.
Let me get you unmuted and um your video going.
Okay. You can uh you can unmute yourself. And I mean Yeah. And start your video. Martha, >> it says it won't let me.
>> It won't let you. Which one?
>> You can uh video >> because it says you disabled it.
>> Let's try it now, please.
Uh, >> there you go.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, just your name and where you're from.
>> Hi, my name is Marissa Wallace and I live in Sunderland and I've been um a pair professional at JFK Middle School.
This is the ending of my 11th year.
I wanted to address something that had come up a couple of meetings ago that was never satisfied to what I think is okay.
The other week, a question was asked to the only person of color on the staff.
And while Kyle Taylor parent and I don't agree on much, I have his back because I saw the look of how uncomfortable it was to be asked a question because he's a black man.
What I would like to say is a person that raised that question needs to be censored and censured and go to a a department um learn about DEI because it's really important as counselors that we don't ask racist questions. It's not okay. The second thing that I want to say is that what you all did in that meeting which was to laugh laugh at a racist question and many of you have those Black Lives Matter in your yards. Please throw them away because let me tell you it is performative baloney burgers.
It is performative and I won't have it.
It's not okay. It's not okay to ask a question of a black man because he's black. And I will inform you I was the one who said picture Main Street was racist. I will own that. Don't ask him because he hasn't talked to me.
Councilwoman Abbot, if you want to know why I think it's racist, I will certainly have that conversation with you. But don't pose a question that belongs to me to someone who looks like me. That's time. If you could wrap up.
>> My last sentence is it's okay to have tension, but we have tension so we can deal with the racist crap. We need to do better.
>> Thank you. Annie, is that Are you Annie?
Okay, you're up.
>> Um, yeah, I read already. She Could I have just a second?
>> Did she Does she want to talk or not?
>> Yes. Okay, please go to uh >> I already went because there was no one else here. Um could you just refer to that?
>> I that was my last line.
>> Annie, please just state your name and where you're from.
>> Hi, I'm Annie Bethl. Um I'm from Northampton. I live off of Prospect Street. Um I had some trouble getting here. Sorry about that. Um, but I wanted to continue Laura's testimony because I'm fervently against L3 Harris um and their presence in my community. Um, I wanted to refer to Langston Hughes poem Harlem from 1951.
What happens to a dream deferred? Does it dry up like a raisin in the sun or fester like a soore and then run? Does it stink like rotten meat or crust and sugar over like a syrupy sweet? Maybe it just sags like a heavy load. or does it explode?
This is a tribute to the children, their families and friends massacred by L3 bombs in Gaza. Conservative estimates stand at 73,000 uh not counting the thousands buried under the rubble who have not been counted yet. Um so I just wanted to use my time to bring to light that I would like L3 out of No. Thanks.
>> Thank you, Andy. Um is there anybody else in the room or on Zoom?
who hasn't spoken.
Okay. Um we'll move on then. Um announcements from the counselors and mayor. Anybody have any council Nabad?
>> Um yes. I just want to announce that the Tom Ricardi Raptors event on June 20th is cancelled as a result of illness and it will be scheduled rescheduled for a future date.
>> Thank you.
Um, anybody else?
Oh, councelor Perry.
>> Oh, uh, I just want to announce that there is a lovely event happening this weekend at 33 Holly. Um, it's get a mule 40 acres and so there's a screening of that movie as well as some discussions.
Um, a former chair of the reparations committee, Usman Power Green, will be there discussing and a couple of amazing MC's as well. And they're they're recording a podcast. So that is I believe from 4 to 6 PM at 33 Holly. So go out and enjoy that. Thank you.
>> I'm sorry. What day is that?
>> It's uh Saturday, >> Microsoft. Saturday, June 20th. Yeah, >> councelor Dubs.
>> Thanks. Um, just wanted to mention that um, July is disability pride month and um, the disability commission will be holding an event on July 16th, which is a Thursday, and it'll be at 10:30 a.m.
at Forbes Library, and we're it's going to be basically like a story time, and we'll be like reading a couple children's books that are disability themed. So, um, yeah, that's Thursday 10:30 a.m. on July 16th. Um, is July Oh, you're right. Okay. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> I thought Okay. Yeah. Sounds like a great event. And thanks for letting us know it's disability month. You said July is disability.
>> July is disability pride month. Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. This is Pride Month.
Um, anybody else have an announcement?
Mayor, >> good evening, counselors. Um, three events I want to make sure you know about and the community knows about.
First is, uh, the Florence Community Band's 25th anniversary. They're having a concert this Sunday. So, it's June 21st at 300 p.m. I think goes from 3:00 to 4 p.m. at Look Park um, in the Pines Theater. And, um, there'll be about 30 minutes of playing with a break in between and then 30 minutes more of playing. So, please come and celebrate um, their 25th anniversary. Uh, the July 4th naturalization ceremony will happen on July 4th. This is the 18th annual naturalization ceremony that uh the center for new Americans um has put on for 18 years. And um it's a really if you've never been, it is one of the most remarkable, wonderful, beautiful ceremonies you can go to in the city. Um it's at 11:00 a.m. outside at the Hampshire County Courthouse, weather permitting. And then last, I'd like to invite all to a community reading of the Declaration of Independence. This is part of a coordinated national initiative of for a simultaneous reading across the country of the Declaration.
um and for a few moments of needed reflection at on this 250th anniversary.
So that will be Wednesday, July 8th at 6 PM and uh right here at Memorial Hall in the front um outside. So I hope people can join for that. Thanks.
Anybody else have anything?
Okay. Um thank you everybody. Um, so we're going to move on to the consent agenda now. Um, there's no dis debate or discussion by any city council member regarding any items on the consent agenda beyond asking questions for simple clarification and rule 4.4.5.
Any item may be removed from the consent agenda upon the request of any city council member prior to the taking of a vote on the motion to approve it. any such items will be considered individually in the order in which they were removed immediately following consideration to the consent agenda. So I'm going to read all the items and then I'll ask um for removals.
Um uh first one is 26.082 appointment of Daniel Nye as a veteran service director for referral to city services.
Um and um uh the next one is 26.072 in order to appropriate um $145,583 in CPA funds to Forbes Library um for Koolage Museum lighting. This is a second reading um 26.073.
an order to appropriate 20 $253,660 in CPA funds to Historic Northampton for Parson's House Restoration. That's the second reading. Um 26.074 is an order to appropriate 202,000 in CPA funds to design accessible rail trail entrance at Northern Avenue. Also second reading um 26.075 075 is an in order to appropriate $330,111 in CPA funds for Nashawanic Brook Restoration Project. Second reading uh 26.075 is an in order to appropriate $7,625 in CPA funds for Lily Library stair rail rare repair uh project. That's a second reading. Um next is 26.087 087 petition for secondhand dealer license for urban exchange. Um and then 26.094 reappointments to various committees for referral to city services. Um the central business architecture committee Melissa Fredio and that's a reappoint cons conversation conservation commission Elizabeth Spriggs it's a reappointment energy and sustainability is Eric Winkler reappoint historical commission Michael Curtain reappoint human rights commission Jamila Gore reappoint urban forestry commission is Richard Parish um a reappoint and zoning board of appeals is Sher Taylor also a reappoint Um, and that's it. So, um, is there anything anybody would like to remove from the consent agenda?
Council Stratton.
>> Um, item B 26072, item D 26074, item E 26075.
>> Okay. So, 7274 and 75. You said, right?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you. Anything else?
Wasn't the intention to remove all of the CPA orders since Sarah Levali wasn't here to speak?
>> She is here though.
>> Well, I know, but in order to speak to them, they all have to be removed.
There's five.
>> Um, I don't think she has to speak to all them. It's a second reading.
>> Okay.
We talked about them last at the last meeting. I mean, she could talk about the ones she took out, but >> I mean, we didn't really discuss these at all at the last meeting. We just moved them into condensed because she wasn't here. I I remove the ones I particularly want to talk about.
I would have no, you know, >> it's second reading and then normally in the second reading we just vote on it.
If we want to discuss it, you could pull it out. If not, um Sarah Levali's here to talk about the ones you did pull out.
Anybody else want to remove anything from the consent agenda?
>> I will move to approve the consent agenda.
>> Is there a second?
>> Second.
So motion made by councelor Perry and seconded. Was that you Louis Gwen? Councelor Nabad seconded it.
>> Roll call please.
Okay. Councelor Davis.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Dubs.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Cleur.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Loiselle.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Nabad.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Perry.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Robbins.
>> Yes.
>> And councelor Stratton.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Um, so we'll go to 26.072 in order to appropriate $143,583 in CPA funds to Forbes Library for Koolage Museum lighting second reading.
So, do you want to speak? Did you have questions for director Sarah Valley or >> I I don't particularly have questions. I would certainly welcome her to present on this or any of the others that she might wish to.
>> Um, is she here?
She's here now. I mean, my my removal was for purpose of comment, not question.
>> Um, >> I don't see Sarah. Could you >> Sarah a moment ago now? I've lost her.
>> I mean, it sounds like there isn't necessarily a question.
>> Oh. Oh, there you go.
>> Um, what's your comment? And and maybe Sarah can answer it or respond to it.
>> Well, this is more of a of a policy um position. Um, you know, the the Community Preservation Act is a very interesting state law. was adopted by a vote of the people of Northampton many years ago. Um, it's done a lot of good.
I mean, later tonight we're going to hear about one of my favorites, which is the Mineral Hills expansion. Um, and you know, I think everyone finds some projects in there they like, and also some projects in there they're a little uncertain about. Um, it creates a special stream of money that can only be used for four purposes. Um, open space, historic preservation, affordable housing, and sort of as the stepchild of open space recreation.
Um, and projects that use that money are are often portrayed as only in competition with each other and not with other more basic needs of the city. Um, but as I spoke about several meetings ago, projects that could be funded either way, like repairing the roof of historic city hall, show that actually all city expenditures are in competition with each other. Because if we use unrestricted money on city hall, we can't use it on something else. Whereas if we use say some historic preservation money on city hall, then we would have freed up unrestricted money. we could use somewhere else. So, the decisions that we make on these items tonight really impact all of city finances.
Everything is ultimately connected and everything is a strategy trade-off. Now, I had someone write to me and say, "Oh, if we don't use this money, it's lost."
That's not true. CPA money that's not appropriated rolls over to next year.
There are some minimums for categories.
I think we've already met those for the year, but in that case, the money just goes into a category reserved account.
So, this is a strategic, you know, decision just like any other appropriation we make. Um, as to this specific item, you know, this is a um preservation of artifacts in a museum.
Yes, Calvin Kulage, you know, served in Northampton, not in this room because it didn't exist, but um before he was president, and yes, this is the last library not presidential library not to get federal funding. But I really have not heard anything that explains why this expenditure of preserving artifacts is really a civic priority. Why this compares more importantly than any of the other things we need to do that we've not funded this year that by moving flexible money you know between city hall roof or next year academy of music. Why it should be this why spending this money public money as opposed to having them do this with public with private philanthropy is a priority. So, this will be a no for me.
>> Okay. Do you would you like uh Sarah to respond or um do you have anything to say, Sarah or mayor, or should I mean sound like a statement? You didn't ask a question.
So, >> I didn't hear a question.
>> Okay. Uh Council Loyel.
>> Yeah. I I wanted to say that I spoke with the chair of the community preservation committee and I have a great deal of respect for the work they do. Um it is one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, about 10 people. A couple of them are elected, some of them are appointed, some of them are one of them, I guess, is staff. Um they're from the historical commission, the conservation commission, um recreation commission and planning board. And I think they bring to the table uh discernment about the projects and they um they have a really good process. They take applications, they know through the applications, they have public hearings, they have the applicants come in and answer their questions. And um Chair Adams said nobody spoke against any of the um projects that they are putting forward.
I think it's pretty cool that we have a presidential library in our city and um I think it's a great, you know, it's historic preservation is what it is and all of these things fall into the category. They're all eligible and so and I feel like I have no interest in micromanaging this very hardworking board. I really thank them for their work. So that's what I wanted to say.
>> Thank you. Uh anybody else have any comments?
Um, Council Robbins.
>> So, I actually hadn't really thought deeply about this, but I I am curious.
Um, and it would be a question that I personally would take back to the CPA board, and I too think they do a wonderful job. They're they their process is just phenomenal. They um the dialogue what they go in there, but I wonder if there's anyone on the board who does ask how something they're funding is it possible to have that be come from another city fund. Um so is yes absolutely money needs to go to Memorial Hall. It needs to go to roofs.
It needs to um preserve historical architecture, but um I'm not sure part of the dialogue they have has any input on whether or not there are other sources of funds to do that. And I don't know what the answer is. So I'm just sort of putting it out there. It's a question I personally will ask. Um but I do hear Councelor Stratton's point.
>> Yeah. Um, so that's a good question, but it will have it's not what's on the agenda right now. We're voting on the um the uh Koolage Museum lighting. So, um I have something to say about it, too, and I'll come back to you. Um, it was at one of our meetings here that the people from the library came and they did speak about how fragile the the fabric is and we h how we lost some items because it wasn't stored properly or the lighting wasn't appropriate and um you know the stuff's been around for decades and um it disintegrated. So, uh, it's just it's a shame to, uh, to just let these artifacts go from someone who is president and we have a presidential library here and any other artifacts that'll be preserved because we have, you know, we're able to have the proper lighting now and store it properly. So, um, I think this is a really important thing to to fund the mayor. Um I I agree that this is not necessarily pertaining to the the the item that's on the agenda, but I will say that having been a part of this and watched um the CPC do their work for years, they have pretty in-depth discussions and ask about different funding sources and um and have at times not funded things or not funded things to the amount that were requested um because they've said no, we think there should be other funding sources for this. So, that is definitely part of their conversation. And Sarah, I don't know if there's anything you want to add to that.
>> Yeah, I I would add that um the the committee thinks hard and long about all of the funding decisions that they make and they ask a lot of really tough questions of applicants. So much so that applicants have called after meetings and said, you know, I I I I'm worried.
Are is the committee mad at me? Is is this okay? Is this something I should expect? Uh and they all take their jobs really really seriously. um and really take a deep dive into how things are being funded, what other funding sources are possible. Taking a look at whether something can be funded through other means is something that's solidified within the community preservation plan.
Uh and there there are a lot of applications presented that are a complicated picture of funding from many different sources. Federal funds, state funds, local funds, other grants, donations, and some of them are, you know, really challenging to find other funding sources for particular particularly at various stages. So, um, a a project that's just seeking design funds may be more challenging to find matching funds for from other sources than a project that's ready to go. So, Community Preservation Act funds are really important to be able to kickstart those types of projects. Um, so yeah, I would I would definitely concur that the the committee takes a a deep dive into that. Uh, and I'd also add that the the application process is competitive within each round and within the fiscal year. Um, so applicants are submitting projects. So the the committee isn't looking broadly at other types of projects that that could potentially be funded. They're looking at at what's been presented to them.
>> Thank you, Sarah. Um, Council Stratton and then Council Loyo.
>> Oh, Councelor Perry.
>> Sorry, I still still keep it old school.
um which kind of is my thing is I went and changed the lighting and I think that one thing that really moved me from some of the comments last meeting was um just the amount of tourism and and people who are brought in by the Calvid Coolage Library um of all ages. It's an educational thing. We live in a time where we're stuck in screens. Um we feel disconnected and this is a space um not only that gives the history but they talked about last meeting um how this is used as an event space. It hosts about 75 people. Um they had over 1,400 people attend events there. Um I see this as an integral part of uh extending our history uh inviting people into our community and and showcasing something that is historical to us but is unique also to us as well. And that's why I supported um you know I I as many people have said I love all of the work that Forbes Library does in and all the people who are dedicated to kind of showcasing things. So this for me is a yes.
Thank you, Council Stratton.
>> Yes. So, um, as as Sarah actually did just explain, you know, that the CPA committee looks at the applications were which were brought. It does not generally tend to look at the things that were not brought. Um, there is a little bit of of future prediction like I know when they were discussing the funding for the pump track last fall, there was some question, you know, were they going to do it as a cash award or bonding? And they looked forward to when they were expecting the big housing project to come down the pipe and they thought it wasn't. they were told it wasn't going to happen this year or or something like that. So there, you know, there's a little look ahead to things they're aware of, but generally they're only weighing what's been brought before them. Our job in contrast as the council is to weigh all of this. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> How do you look at things not brought before you? If you don't if it's not brought before you, I'm I'm confused.
Can you explain that?
Well, I mean, the CPA committee is, you know, that they view their job as to only look at the applications that are brought rather than to look at everything the CPA could be used for.
So, I I'm not criticizing the CPA committee. I'm saying that they take a fairly limited view of things. They see their role as only to look at the presented applications with a very little bit of anticipation of what might be coming. You know, balancing fall and spring rounds and and cash versus bonding and some things like that.
There's some just limited discussion of that. Um, but generally there isn't like, you know, hey, nobody's brought us an outdoor recreation project in two years. What's going on kind of thing.
Um, in contrast, we, you know, as the city council, our job is to weigh all of the city's needs and all of its funding sources. Now, normal appropriations, you know, you or I, none of us can originate an appro appropriation. An appropriation comes to us recommended by the mayor and then the charter requires that we also vote on it. In this case, the CPA committee is kind of playing the role that the mayor run plays. Instead of, you know, a recommendation from the mayor, it comes to us as a recommendation from the CPA committee.
And the state law similarly requires we vote on it. So, you know, it's not just their job. It's a shared job. It's it's a two-stage process. It happens all over American government.
>> I have a point of information.
>> Yes.
>> Um, council point of information. Go ahead.
>> Point of information. My understanding is the Community Preservation Act is a state um act.
>> Yes.
>> Um so it's not up to us to tell the CPC what to do or how to do it or >> to >> indeed >> um create projections or whatever.
>> I I'm not criticizing CPC.
>> Already there is already a requirement 10 10.
So, a a percentage is specifically allocated for for for his historical preservation, specifically allocated for housing. And so, I don't I guess I don't really understand why this is an issue per se because as long as it's within the 10% or within the requirement and also this is a state act. Um, I'm confused. That was large for a point of information, but I'd be happy to answer >> comment on people's questions, but also um we're kind of getting off topic.
>> I I mean I I did have the floor.
>> Hold on. This was about um the CPA.
>> Have you taken the floor back for me?
>> I'm I'm just trying to rein it in here a little bit. We're talking about the Forbes Library Coolage Museum lighting.
Um not pump tracks and everything. So, um, if you have comments, you know, about why you pulled this and what you think about it, uh, go ahead. But, um, you're kind of getting off, you know.
>> Okay. If if, if I may continue >> and and respond to what what was just said >> on the topic though about the Forbes Library project.
>> Okay. Yes. I would say that our job as the city is to weigh our job as the city council, which is distinct from the job of the CPC. The CPC's job is more narrow. Our job is broad. Our job is to weigh everything. My colleague is correct that 10% by state law has to either be appropriated or set aside in a specific account for each of these uses.
I think that was already satisfied for this fiscal year in the fall round. Um I do not consider this particular expenditure to be a strategic use of the public's tax money. So I will be voting against it.
>> Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Councelor Zo.
>> Yeah, I just forgot to say that. Um, well, first of all, it's too bad last time at our meeting there were a lot of people who spoke and there were I think the majority of the people who spoke on behalf of the projects, it was about the Calvin Kulage Museum. They're not here this time, but I did run into somebody at the recycling center this week where I run into all the people and she was very excited about it and, you know, asked, you know, just said, "I hope if I need to come back to another meeting, please let me know." Um, but what I wanted to say is that um the other thing I forgot to say about this project is that it's gonna it's not just that it's gonna um have um better lighting, architectural lighting. It's going to make it more accessible to the public because of the better lighting.
So, people will be able to come and use the library and use the museum and look at the museum. And um I know that it is we can't um we can't tell the CPA committee to take on a project. We can deny it, but we can't it's like similar to our budget. We can't add to it, but we can deny it, but I don't see any reason to deny this.
>> Okay. Um anybody want to make a motion?
>> I move to approve.
>> Second.
>> Second.
>> Uh the council Perry. Um >> and I'll second it.
May Council Perry uh made the motion and councelor um Davis seconded it. Roll call, please. Laura.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> Councelor Loyel, >> yes.
>> Councelor Mayori, not present. Councelor Nibad, >> yes.
>> Councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> no. and councelor Dubs Davis, I'm sorry.
>> Yes.
>> Um so, um >> seven at one >> seventh and one approved. Um so, uh council strand, since you pulled these other two items off, is it the same reason or do you have specific things for each of them that you >> There are there are similar and but specific, but I will stick to what's new.
>> Um so, >> go to 26.074 074 an order to appropriate 22,000 CPA funds to design accessible rail trail entrance on Northern Avenue.
So about that topic um feel free to comment.
>> Yes, I mean if you if you go there's a very short distance between the end of the road and the rail trail and it's a very steep ditch and I tried to bike through it and I couldn't. Um if we were actually building a bridge across that I might be in favor of this but this is not building a bridge. this is putting 202,000 or one point it was 212 I think it's 2 202 >> um into a design study for it and one of the things that this highlights is when you have special purpose money like this you get interests including design firms that are very very skilled at writing things to soak up that money um there's also proposal that this might involve a state grant which actually would reduce some of the local expenditure I don't know if that's still alive but you know the comment when this was introduced to bike ped was oh this design firm is very good at winning these grants. And I was like, yes, I bet they are. They are very adept at soaking up public money. Um, we have no idea what actually building this bridge would cost to achieve the benefit.
>> Um, if we did build the bridge, if you look at a map, then yes, it makes the trip from Northern Avenue to the rail trail really short. But if you want to actually go anywhere via the rail trail, by the time you get to like McDonald's or something, you've barely actually saved any distance going via the rail trail versus going on the sidewalk of Northern Avenue. And anywhere across the river, you know, you've basically not saved anything. Um you're just on the rail trail versus the sidewalk. Hey, you know, if we could build the bridge for $212,000, I'd be in for this, but it's a design study.
>> Uh Sarah Valley has um some information that might help >> in in a minute.
I will feel the for in just a minute. Um and it it you know it seems to me like the real beneficiaries here are the design firm and also the developer of the VU Avenue project who you know wrote a letter of support in favor of this. Um you know if the bridge does happen then he can sell his units as trailside and so you know I think if he wants the bridge he should be donating money for it.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um do you mind if uh we let Sarah talk next because I think she has some information that would help us all.
Uh Sarah, >> sure. So um just to clarify what the the expenditures um necessary in the design are. So because this is a a DCR owned trail, the the the connection would need to meet DCR standards. Um uh it will also meet ADA and engineering standards to make sure that it it's safe and accessible. It will include geotechnical borings and engineering environmental permitting survey and construction ready plans. And if the mass trails grant is received, which we're really optimistic about because we we have heard positive things from DCR about this connection, um then only 45,000 will be required in CPA funding as a local match and the rest of the funds would be returned to the CPA pot.
>> That's great. Um Council Loisel, >> yeah, I'd like to speak to this. It's it's my ward. It's right in my uh backyard basically. And um I happen to have been on the street and actually I use that that very um bumpy path a lot to get on the bike path and it's easy for me to do it as an able-bodied person but anybody who uses a wheelchair cannot do it. And Northern has um a bunch of new condos that are ADA accessible. So, there's one person I know who lives and uses a wheelchair and uses prosthetics um and cannot access the bike path and this will help her access the bike path. And there's other people in wheelchairs on that same street. So, I feel like it's I'm all for this. I I I really hope it happens. So, it's a yes for me.
>> Thank you. Um yeah, I'd like to I have a question. Um, so people have said, you know, why do we need all the design project that designers could come in?
Can't we just build a bridge? So, um, and you said there's a specific I mean, we can't just do that.
I mean, we need to we need to go through the process to be able to use the trail and hook it up.
>> Yeah. I This has to be engineered to DCR and ADA standards. Um, you know, it's it's not as simple as just throwing in a bod bridge in conservation areas, which we do all the time with help of community partners. U this is something that that's higher level requires you know geotechnical borings to see what's under the surface to make sure the bridge will be supported uh and additional design work >> and then um to have access to the trail though we would have to have a design and go through the proper channels >> correct the engineering channels to build it or they won't let us hook up to the trail and um okay thank you anybody else have questions council >> um I was just curious to know if it would be if if there was something done here um and it wasn't done by engineers.
Um if it wasn't done in a in a design way that is ADA compliant, would it be a liability if we just threw something up willy-nilly and um did that?
>> Yeah, I potentially it definitely could be. And there are informal connections to the um to the multi-use trails all around the city. Um but th those aren't anything that have that were sanctioned by the city or were done with community involvement. If if an official connection were to be made and were to be blessed by DCR, that would absolutely need to be approved by DCR and they would need to be involved in the design process.
>> Anybody else? Oh, councelor Davis put it on there. Uh sorry. Uh I very briefly just want to say that uh we heard in public comment uh it was just one person but acknowledge that this is a busy area.
It's densely populated over there. Um, and um, I for one am um, while I love the idea of the $45,000 price tag possibility if we get this other grant um, from mass trails, is that what I heard? Um, uh, I for one am not, uh, averse to having experts that know way more than I do to design something so that more people can use um use this.
>> Thanks.
>> Yeah. And just to reiterate one comment, if we don't go through a design firm and an engineer, we will not be able to hook this this bridge up to the trail. So it um this is the only way forward. Council Stratton.
>> So I mean much as I wish it were, I'm not meaning to suggest that this could be something like where that Eagle Stout and Belure town built a bridge in conservation area for $4,000. I think we all recognize that. I mean, this is at least head high. You you need to know what you're doing there. Um, if we were talking about fixing the sidewalk of Northern Avenue, and maybe we need to be talking about that, if we need to be talking about it, we should be. We can't do that directly with CPA money, but again, every decision is a trade-off. Um, my question would be for Sarah, what is the current estimate of what actually building the bridge itself is going to cost?
>> That I don't have available. So, I I'm here representing the the votes of the community preservation committee. Um I I but I I don't believe that we have an estimate of fully what the design would cost. It would depend on the the the preferred alternative uh once they do the the geotechnical investigation and the engineering.
>> Mayor again, off topic, but Northern Avenue was paved and the sidewalk was reconstructed last year.
>> Thank you, Council Perry. Yeah, I mean it's tough to ask people how much a bridge would cost when they haven't done the design work on it. Just going to say that. Um, and you know, I I I see the forward thinking here that this is the amount that we might need, but they're working on ways to take that down. That for me is a good step in the right direction.
And I'm I'm actually a little disturbed that someone a single person would tell other people that they could just suck it up and go a little bit out of their way to to ex this thing. it it feels um more about one person's experience and less about the greater community's experience. So that's maybe you're maybe I'm interpreting what you said wrong and you can clarify how you feel about it, but it feels to me that um it is not taking the greater community and people with disabilities as councelor Loyel said. So that that for me is bothersome >> like to move we >> hold on ahead.
>> I was just going to move that we approve very quickly.
>> Very very quickly.
>> Yes. So, it shortens getting to the rail trail, but if you're trying to go anywhere, it basically just means you're going there on the rail trail rather than an only slightly larger distance on the sidewalk.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, council, >> I'd like to move to approve this.
>> Um, is there >> second?
>> So, councelor Lazelle um made the motion to approve and then councelor Nabad seconded. Councilman Nabad the motion maker. Did I just >> No, no. Loisel, motion.
>> Nabad seconded.
>> I know they're all yellow here. You can't really >> They're just blending into each other.
>> Okay. Got it.
>> Roll call, please. Laura.
>> Okay. Councelor Cleur.
>> Yes. Councelor Loyel.
>> Yes.
>> Uh Councelor Nabad, >> yes.
>> Councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> no. Councelor Davis.
>> Yes.
>> And councelor Dobs.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. So, that uh passed um 7 to1 seven in favor. Um so the next one's 26.075 in order to appropriate $330,100 $111 in CPA funds for the National Wanic Brook Restoration Project. So let's see if u maybe Sarah can talk about it first this time and clarify the project and then um we can ask questions if that's okay with you Sarah.
>> Sure. I just want my presentation.
Uh so the uh Nashana Brook restoration is a a exciting project that's um being done by the office of planning and sustainability, the conservation commission in cooperation with the division of ecological restoration and mass Ottabon. Uh this is the first golf course restoration in Massachusetts. It it seems hard to believe that, but lots of golf courses have closed. They're not being utilized at the same rate by the same number of golfers that they had been. and they're no longer financially profitable. So, they're being converted to other uses, but this is the first one that's fully being restored. Uh, so the long-term goals for the site, um, and here's an aerial shortly after it closed, are to improve stream and wetland habitat, reconnect the stream with its flood plane. It's been, uh, channelized and, um, sent downstream quickly, uh, ever since it was a golf course, so it it no longer has the ability to flood. restore stream connectivity, increase flood storage, sequester carbon, provide passive recreation, and connect with existing conservation lands. Uh, and this is just a really fast overview of a really big project, and I'm happy to go into more of any of these aspects if you want. Um, but the big picture is dam removal. So, there's a a dam that was being used for irrigation purposes. That's no longer necessary, but that will be removed. Uh, channel restoration. So taking all of the the rip wrap and stone out of that channel, reconnecting it with its spawn plane, forested wetland enhancement, all of these fairways had been cut and maintained for all this time. And that that's a big deviation of what this site used to look like many years ago. So planting those uh planting trees in the riparian corridor and the and uplands, increasing pollinator habitat, creating an enhanced trail network, including um an accessible loop trail. Uh and this isn't just a boardwalk trail. This is a trail um like the one in Hadley that uh that that's federally owned. Uh this we're hoping that this would re really be a regional destination. Educational signage and the the CPA funding is intended as a match for the municipal vulnerability program grant that's been applied for. They require a 10% match.
So that that's a much larger uh state application. Uh so work that's going underway now. The work has already started with help for the division of ecological restoration program. uh removal of the failed undersized culvert um at old Wilson Road. Uh so this culvert failed last year. It broke in several places, inundated the roadway, roadway became unstable um needed to be dealt with. So we worked with the um office of planning and sustainability worked with DPW to come up with a solution um that met restoration goals and also would save maintenance costs long term. um in turn terminating the vehicle roadway, installing a pedestrian bridge, creating a parking lot and turnaround. Um again, removal of stream channelization arboring. We're working on that now. And tree planting. And here's two examples of what the stream used to look like. Um here's a bunch of rip wrap on the side and some stone. Um and there was much much more stone and rip wrap there than anyone ever imagined. Like many many many tons, many truckloads. And that will need to be dealt with in the second phase. Part of that will be funded through CPA. And this picture on the left shows where the terminus of the restored channel. So this is just in the beginning phases of restoration. All of that stone, all of that unnatural man-made man-placed material is gone. But you can see where where it begins. Um, and there's several feet of of rip wrap and stone. And you can also see where the outlet from the empoundment is. Clearly that that's not something that fish or other wildlife would be able to deal with.
And that's it for that.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um, council lo >> have a question um for you. Thank you for that presentation. The the order says that this project had significant has gained significant widespread support in partnerships. Can you say a little bit about those partnerships?
>> Definitely. So um Mass Ottabon was the city's first partner on this site. Mass Ottabon was particularly interested in con permanently conserving this land and in its restoration. Um, Arcadia was experiencing a lot of just sort of strange flooding events. You know, it's a really small watershed. National Brook flows after it leaves the the golf course property un under Route 10 um under the bike path at a location of another failed culvert and then enters Arcadia and where it's really flashy, more flashy, more floodprone than and erosive than you would ever think that such a small stream could be. Um the regional ecologist Tom Watsonheiser was trying to investigate what might be going on. Uh was looking at maps like you know everything upstream is pretty green. This doesn't make sense. But a golf course, it although it is green, is really functioning the same as a big parking lot because it's not fun to golf in swampy wet conditions that you don't want to lose your ball. You don't want to get your feet wet. Uh golf courses are designed to take all of the water that falls and get it off the site absolutely as fast as possible through through drainage mechanisms, through channel uh channelization like we've seen um and just making that water go away. But that has widespread negative events downstream. So Mass Ottabon was a partner. Uh the state's division of ecological restoration is a partner. Uh and and we're also working with other organizations that are also looking into their their own golf course restorations regionwide.
>> Just one more question. Um, it also says in the order that these CPA funds will provide a required 10% match and uh, chair Adams explained to me that sometimes the CPA money is used to leverage other even larger pots of money. Is that what's happening here?
>> Correct. Uh, so that the state MVP program requires the 10% match. If a community is of Northampton size is not able to provide a 10% match, uh, the grant will not be received and it won't be successful. So that that small 10% match if if this grant is successful and we're really optimistic that it would be would leverage a lot more and save funding.
>> Okay. Anyone else?
Councelor Stratton.
>> Well, first of all, you know, I'm very glad we bought this property. Um, taking it into public ownership was smart and strategic. I was there a couple times a number of years ago. Went there with my nephew. It was a lot of fun. um was there randomly just a month ago looking around and I mean this this is already reing itself and we are trying to push it in the direction it's already going faster than it's already going there um cutting the culvert and pending building a stream crossing there to reconnect the road bike ped wheelchair um that's already funded and in progress um this is a really grand project I mean it it is $3.8 8 million I believe. Um if you walk inside the front door of city hall, the design studies be been behind glass there for a substantial period of time.
I don't know if it's still there. Um people are going to win awards for this project, but it's not really clear if there's that much public benefit in pushing nature where nature is already going faster than it's already going there. Um, I'm also very troubled that the chair of the CPA commission is a direct abuter to this property and normally a project to that scale would be disqualifying because it's basically inescapable that it impacts adjacent property values. Now, he spoke he he mentioned this. He spoke with attorney Sewald. He said that he was able to participate in this, but I'm I'm very troubled by that.
>> Okay. Uh, Council Nabad.
>> Um, yes. I I just want to confirm this with um Sarah, but um I don't know how many people watching this um remember the floods of 2023. Um how many people farm on the land downstream from from um from this location?
Um how many people, you know, that are growing their own food at, you know, community gardens along along the river.
Um, but I do know as someone who has been very concerned about the health of our rivers that have been deteriorating more and more over the last 55 years, um, that actually this good work, um, can have a positive influence on our food system. Um, and I wondered, um, if you could talk a little bit about about the impact of the river and the health of the river on our food system, if you could. Sure. So, Nashanukbrook doesn't have uh any farmland directly downstream, but it is part of the broader Connecticut River wershed. Um so, as it as a project that's one of its main functions is to increase flood resilience by retaining more flood water on the site where it makes sense to do that. You know, it's it's reducing flood risk, albeit incrementally um at downstream properties. No, we if if this project had farmland downstream, I think absolutely he would be reducing there.
>> Councelor Dave, were you done? Council Nabod, >> councelor Davis, >> um I I'm struck by um Councelor Stratton's comment and I wanted to know Sarah um if that's true. Like I hadn't even thought about if if we didn't do this, if this project didn't happen, is it in fact is the golf course reing anyway and we're just speeding it up? Because if that's true, that's something to take in to account. And uh or if it is it the way that was that you described the description that I even wrote down about the golf courses which I know I've literally never held a I've never played golf and I do not even know the difference between any of those clubs. I know nothing about golf courses. But the way that you described it that they're designed to be like a parking lot and get that water off. That doesn't sound like a place that's easily going to rew wild, but is that something to take into account? Um, you know, would this just happen naturally anyway if we left it for x amount of years?
>> Sure, I I can speak to that. So, um, through our partnership with the division of ecological restoration, that's something that we thought a lot about and the design that the the city landed on and the deer through it, uh, through fish and wildlife landed on was one that's a really light touch. We're not bringing anything into the site except for plants. Uh, we're not taking any materials off the site. Um, you know, all of the the excavated material we're planning to use elsewhere on site.
um aspects of the site would eventually rew themselves to a point but there are a lot of aspects that would would never happen without human intervention. You know a lot of a lot of human intervention was necessary to make these changes and a lot of human intervention is necessary to reverse them. um nature would never be able to take out the many many thousands of uh you know tons of material that were deposited there. Um nature wouldn't be able to reconnect the stream with its flood plane because of the the level of intervention that had happened to change it. Um so it you know some things would be able to happen over time many things never would but although this is an expensive project and you know no I don't think the CPC or the the designers are really excited about the cost of it but a lot of value engineering went went into it to lower the cost. If you if you look at the dam removal cost for example that's much much lower than it would be for a typical dam removal. Uh but the the things that are proposed are really focusing on undoing that that really intensive work that went into the course and focusing on things that wouldn't be able to happen without our help.
>> Um mayor, >> I just want to make sure it's clear that the chair Brian Adams filed the proper disclosure form that he needed to um as an >> Thank you. And attorney Sewalt, he spoke to Attorney Seaw Walt as well. So, um, councelor Robbins, >> thank you, Sarah. That was such a good description. And, um, as a spouse of someone who dearly loved playing golf on that course, I've walked around it a lot, and it, um, I've walked on it a lot since it's ceased being a golf course, and I don't see any more three-eyed frogs. Um, but I think what you're saying is that we're really removing human intervention in a beautiful area that was meadow and it was tree. Um, and it did have a good flood plane. And I know that in a golf course, it's many, many years of destroying all of that in order to make it a golf course. So, um, I I wish it were cheaper. I wish we could, you know, make it a less um ownorous uh expense and effort and all that, but I for one really appreciate the effort even though my spouse doesn't.
>> Council, >> I'd like to make a motion to approve 26075 in order to appropriate 330,111 in CBA funds for Nashawanic Brook Restoration Project. Uh motion to approve from council. Do we have a second?
>> Second. Councelor Perry seconded it earlier.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Oh, >> I was just gonna say I I'm in support of it. I I I know that it's a huge project.
I I um also have visited the space. I one of the things I love about Northampton is all these kind of like hidden gems. And it was interesting to walk along a space that used to be kind of um altered by man. Um and and for me, one thing that I want to speak about is that it's hard to see the impact on the community when the project isn't done.
Um, you know, I I when I do this work, I think about the future often and um I don't have a crystal ball to to know how many people would utilize the space, but I do know that people in our community will utilize the space and do utilize the space and it's important to keep that in in sort of my decision-m. So, that's why I'm voting yes for it.
>> Thank you. Um, roll call, please.
>> Okay. Councelor Loiselle, >> yes. Councelor Nabad, >> yes.
>> Councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> no.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> And councelor Clemer, >> yes.
>> Okay, so that passes 7 to one. Um, next we have the financial orders on first reading. Um and these um financial orders will be introduced and discussed at full city council meeting and refer to either the consent agenda or future meetings of the finance committee for more public input, discussion, and recommendation. First is 26.089. It's an order to approve expenditure of $1,200 in youth commission gift funds. It's a first reading, but they're um requesting that for a suspension of the rules to wave two readings. Um, so >> I move to suspend the rules.
>> Uh, motion made by council Perry to suspend the rules. Is there a second?
>> Second.
>> I think so.
>> What is it?
>> Yeah, I don't think so.
>> Oh, we good. Um, see, thank you for keeping an eye on things.
Um, so councelor Perry and then Nabad, did you second it? Okay, so motion made to suspend the rules by councelor Perry, seconded by councelor Nabad. Um, roll call, please.
>> Council, >> yes.
>> Council, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes. Councelor Stratton, >> no. Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> And councelor Loyel, >> yes.
>> Okay, so passed 7 to one again.
Um, any questions, discussion?
Uh, >> I was going to present it if it's okay.
>> Yeah, that'd be great.
>> Okay. Um, and we also have Ameilia Durban here who's the just just graduated um, chair, so just just former chair of the youth commission as well.
Uh, first I want to give huge thanks to the youth commission. Um, to the reparations study commission, councelor Perry. Um, I was very happy to volunteer with members of the human rights commission, uh, the arts council, the city's economic development team, um, the business sponsors of this event, Positively Africana by Amy, Provisions, Valley Creates, um, and all of the volunteers and musicians, and everyone who participated in um, the first annual Junth Festival. Um, it was truly a fantastic event. So, um it was amazing what you all put together and it was a joy to see it and be a part of it. So, thank you to everyone. Um and huge thanks to the youth commission who um is as a sponsor of of this are um want this expenditure from their gift fund uh to support the festival. So, um, that's all that I mean, happy to take questions.
And then Amelia, I don't know if there's anything that you want to add.
>> Questions and yeah, >> I don't Oh, sorry, >> Councelor Perry.
>> I don't have any questions. I do have statements because I um completed this whole process. I was there from the start to the to the finish. And I may have mentioned before that one thing that was heartening to me was um how this project w was really spearheaded by our youth. Uh they had approached me with an idea. It was something I had talked about in other meetings. Um and I was just thankful to be able to connect with our youth. Um and then work in handinhand with the city with Brian Foot and the arts department. Um and we took on a task that was not planned for, you know, this year. We decided that we were going to create the first um annual Junth celebration and we did it in a way that um I think was really inspiring. Again, um nearly all of the people who were organizing the event were people of color. Every artist was a person of color both on the stages and vending. Um you know, we we had just a great outpouring of folks and um in order to make it happen, we needed funding and so the youth commission was able to help sponsor it. the um arts department was able to move funding from other things.
And so some of some and a lot of this money is going to pay for people who helped create a a very impactful cultural event. That's why I think it's important to move this money forward so the people who actually helped um our community can actually be paid for their work. Um and so I will vote yes for this wholeheartedly and I look forward to helping plan the next Junth celebration.
>> Councelor Robbins. Ameilia, thanks and congratulations on your graduation. It was great seeing you walk across the stage.
>> Um, mayor, I was unaware that there is a youth commission gift fund, and I'm not sure where one would look for it, but um, I'm happy that it has $1,200 in it that could go towards something like that. Are you do you have a sense, you or Amelia, of what the balance is in it now?
>> Do you know?
>> I do.
>> Um, yeah. So, well before my time on the youth commission, we did a bug fundraiser and it raised about $2,000, a little bit under. Um, and we never spent the money. So, um, we wanted to do some projects this year. We spent some to go to Boston, um, to do some advocacy at the state house. And then yeah, the group voted to spend 1,200 to um pay our sound technician like our and our DJ. So for the music aspects of the event.
>> So is that a revolving fund or a separate fund?
>> So actually that's that reminded me just a couple months ago this council actually voted funds from that fund for the trip that we Yes. Revolv.
>> How much is left in that now?
Um, I just went through this and I don't remember the exact number, but it's about 400.
>> And did I read in your notes that if you have a good fundraising session, you are going to dye the mayor's hair?
>> The mayor's hair. That is true. Yep.
We'll come back. But can I talk about that now?
>> Oh, we do want to hear it.
>> Okay. Well, we're doing a fundraiser over the summer. If we raise $1,000, we'll dye Alan Wolf's hair. He's our adviser.
It'll be rainbows, just so you know.
Semi-permanmanent rainbows. If we dye, if we raise 2,000, we're going to dye former council president Jim Nash's hair, which is white. So, that'll be great.
>> And then 3,000 for the mayors.
>> 3,000 plus for the mayors.
>> So, if you wait and then if you only dye the mayor, is it a progressive?
>> Alan, you're not getting out of this one.
I don't I don't think >> I would sacrifice for you, but you're >> Yeah. So, donate people.
>> Yes, we're putting >> So, where do we donate to?
>> Well, we're we just put up a GoFundMe.
We also have a Venmo in our Instagram bio.
>> Um, we have some videos about it, too.
And then you can also write a check to the city of Northampton specifying for the youth commission.
>> Would it be okay to send something to Laura that she can send out to all of us?
>> Yes. Most a lot of newsletters that >> Yes. Would that be It's okay to say that here.
>> Awesome. Look at their faces.
>> This is way better than tying the principal taping the principal to the wall which is very junior high school.
>> It's I've seen videos.
Any other questions about Junth?
>> I will move to approve this.
>> Thank you.
>> Is there a second? Thank you Amelia and congratulations.
So, a motion made by councelor Perry, seconded by uh councelor Davis.
>> Roll call, please.
>> Um, councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> yes.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dub, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> Councelor Loyel, >> yes.
>> And councelor Nabad, >> yes.
Um, so that passed unanimously, eight folks. Um, the next is 26.090. An order to transfer $565,12 of free cash to cover snow and ice account deficit and also um the suspension of the rules to wave two readings is requested. Um, this is a standard. This happens every year because um you know we we go over budget uh because of the terrible snowstorms and ice storms we've had in the past year. So this comes up every year on our agenda. Um so is there a motion to suspend the rules?
>> I make a motion to suspend the rules.
>> Davis is it Naded it? Davis first did it. Um roll call please. Councelor Robbins, >> no.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> no.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> Councelor Loiselle, >> yes.
>> Um, councelor Nabad, >> yes.
>> And councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> So, that passed six to two.
>> Got six positive two. Nicknos and >> that's enough to suspend the six. Yes.
Um, okay. So, rules are suspended. Um, and um, >> are there any questions? Uh, council, >> I'm happy to speak to it.
>> Oh, yeah. Let's let the mayor speak first.
>> So, um, doesn't happen every year.
Almost many years, not every year. Um, so according to MGL 4431D, this is the only line that cities and towns are allowed to legally deficit spend um, for snow and ice. And um so but we do have to then make that up. So, if we were not to make it up before the end of the fiscal year, um then it would the city auditor auditor would have to report it to DLS and we would have to cover it and it would have to be reported in our tax recap and we would have to cover it um next year and uh we a way you know if we did not cover it with other funds um then we would be forced when in setting the tax rate during the tax recap to um to cover it.
And since we tax to the max and we don't have room in our levy, we would have to find another way. So there is um according to the law, there is a way where you could in the tax setting, you could then build it in, but we don't have that capacity to do that. So uh it's going to get covered now or it's going to get covered in a few months, but it has to get covered.
>> Thank you, Councelor Robbins.
>> Yeah, thank you.
>> Sorry. Thanks for that. Um, I did have a few questions about it. It says it's coming from free cash, but I thought our financial policy, you know, says it should come from the general stabilization fund.
So, um, I'm guess I'm a little confused about that. It says I think what I found was it it the general uses of that fund were to cover unforeseen operating budget deficits such as extraordinary snow and ice.
So, I mean that that that's an example of a use for it, but it's not the only place it can come from. Generally, it's come from free cash if there's free cash available.
>> Why wouldn't we do what it says in our financial operating fund, though? So, why wouldn't we go first to the general um stabilization fund?
>> Well, again, that that is just an example in the policy. You know, many times when we talk about uses of free cash, we actually use this as an example as as to make up snow or ice or other one-time funds, one-time expenditure.
>> Could we use it from the general stabilization fund? Is that an option?
>> We could. I mean, if we didn't do this, then we would have to use it from somewhere else because in September when we set the tax rate or when we do the recap, um >> because free cash would be frozen. But there's not an advantage to doing that.
>> Okay. Okay. So, I had a couple more which is also um I believe that the governor has just signed some emergency support for um municipal municipal snow and ice you know cost that occurred during the year which I think it's about a million dollars. Do you think we'll be seeing any of that?
>> It's not clear yet if we will be.
>> And if we did where would that money go?
>> It would flow into free cash.
>> It would come back into cash. Yeah.
>> Okay. And then um my third question is I was on the understanding that this was one of those pieces that felt under the three-year amortization plan. So it was one of those emergency pieces where you could break it into paying it off in three years, which I understand you wouldn't want to do if you knew you were going to have to spend it again next year. But if it's if it is a deficit that we wouldn't actually come under the penalties of not having paid it off this year, >> perhaps we could amateur am I can never say that word, amateurize it over three years, but I don't see what the advantage of doing that would be. We will have to pay it. And you're right, we likely will have, you know, depending on the winner next year. you know, for the last few years, we've been over the last in 24, we did not hit our budget amount, but other than that, we've been over every So, I think that's why they have the amortization thing is if you're over it, you can qualify for that. And I don't know what other municipalities do with that, but it is it is a way to be able to say, you know, you can legally pay it off over time.
And I just want us to be aware that that's an option. If we spend the money on this, um, how much money is left in free cash?
$698,666 and there is a recommendation I mean so to be clear DLS recommends that some amount of free cash be carried over to the next year.
>> So if we're going to expect to spend money again that we I don't see that we've budgeted for an enormous amount of money for snow and ice removal for next year.
>> It's always 500,000.
>> How is that not a recurring fund recurring expense?
>> So we don't know what the amount will be. it's always changing. So, it's considered a one-time expense.
>> That's an interesting rationale, but um it's, you know, we did we've talked about this before. We've taken out, you know, snow and ice insurance um ahead of coming into a deficit. Is that an option?
>> I don't know.
>> So, Mayor Higgins did that frequently.
>> That was a very long time ago, and I've not heard of that being done in >> Could we look into it? Is that a possibility? so we don't come into a deficit again next year.
>> So, this was a particularly bad winter.
So, this is a much larger deficit than it usually is. Um, it's usually a fairly small deficit.
>> And my final question is if we knew that we had this expense um and we just approved the budget, is there a reason why this wasn't in it?
>> If we knew that because this is how so snow and ice, again, this is how communities handle snow and ice every year. So, what do you mean? Why would it be in the budget? I mean, snow and ice is in the budget for next year.
>> We had, but we had the runover from last year and we're looking at this year and what our costs would be. I don't remember us having a conversation saying, "Hey, we're still going to be out six and a half um you know, over half a million dollars for >> Director Lali is here and she can speak to it, but I'm not you know, I think it takes a she did mention it." Yeah, actually >> she did she did mention that. I didn't know we were going to be taking it out of free cash. I I'm just asking. Well, it wouldn't have come out of the budget.
>> I mean, we bud we have a budgeted amount which we spent and this is the over this is what we spent over that budgeted amount.
>> Um, and this is, as I said, the one line that we legally can spend over, but we do then have to make it up elsewhere.
>> I just want us to be thinking forward about how we don't get in this position again next year.
>> Every community is hap this happens in basically every community in the Commonwealth. It's why this is the line that they can overspend >> and if you overget >> um right yeah >> counc I think and and director can discuss this but I think one of the things is we can't predict what the cost of of a salt is going to be and the things how much snow it that is why it is a variable it is so there is a set amount that is set aside and then we have to figure out when the heavens open or whatever natural disasters occur plus man-made expenses is how we kind of get there. Maybe I'm wrong in how in how we get here, but I think that those two factors are what pushes things either up or down.
>> And we I mean, so if your point is we should budget more for it annually, then we're just going to be creating more of a surplus.
>> I want us to be thinking about it creatively and to think about if we don't know what the winners are going to bring us. We had a bad winner the year before. I know director Lascalaya did a really good job of of preloading us with salt and getting that payment done ahead of many other communities when we had that terrible ice storm. Um, and that was really good forward thinking. We had it on hand. Unfortunately, we didn't have anything we could use to use the salt at that time. But this issue, this it's a climate change issue, right? We can't actually predict a lot of it, but it does feel as though it would be a very good idea not to come at the end of the year when we do have um a limited amount of money, not having thought about how we can embed this in a in a more productive way. So, when we do the estimations, as councelor Perry is discussing, um we overestimate a lot of what we think it's going to cost. I'd like to see us think about that in um you know in the productive way of saying let's overestimate what we're going to have to spend on snow and ice and then if we get money back from the state that's great. If we overestimate it we have money that's coming back to us but not to come into the pickle of saying we're going to owe over half a million dollars at the end of the year.
>> So you want us to overestimate the one line that we can overspend.
I'm saying we should have more of a discussion about it than having it appear as an appropriation order on information on on this piece and I'd be happy to talk about it. I think it's going to come back to finance. Is that right?
>> No.
>> No, >> it's not. All right. We've suspended the rules. Sorry, I forgot about that. It'll be one piece. I think it's a big discussion and I I um I would like to know more about this. I'd like to learn more about what other municipalities are going to do. I'd like to know whether or not we're going to get money from the state and how that's going to be aortioned now that the governor has signed it in um that she is going to be expending that money. Will Northampton see any of it?
>> I I encourage you to do reading about it on on the mass.gov pages. There's lots of information. You can see what other communities do. They do like a tally of it every year.
So, >> well, sorry.
>> I did I did what you did. Um, I wanted to say I I I have um memories of of um when the city did have have an insurance policy and people and people kind of praying for more snow so that the insurance policy would have been worth our money and it was never really I think ultimately it was decided that you know insurance is a scam. So it the insurance policy wasn't worth it. And so I um I I have a distinct memory of that over the years. And um also just wanted to say that I have heard this discussion and I do think that the city has thought about it and this is the result of it.
This is kind of the mo thing that makes the most financial sense. So I'm a yes for this.
>> Thank you. Um councelor Stratton.
So, um, Councelor Robbins has has, you know, addressed some important points on this and asked some of the questions I was going to ask. Um, from my perspective, I voted against the suspension of rules because I would have been a lot more comfortable if this order were in front of us two weeks ago while we were talking about the budget.
Um, you know, I I know maybe this wasn't known in February, March. It was known two months two weeks ago. Um, and you know, we just had a budget process where the prevailing negative narrative was that we were out of money. and I said, "No, actually, I think there's $1.3 million in free cash left, which has just been confirmed. 1.3 before this, 698 after it." Um, it also feels a little bit like we're changing the rules based on the priority because here is a basically recurring expense of which I think uh 233 or something is personal services, which is to say salary. Um, so you know, when it's one priority, we're willing to spend free cash on a basically recurring operating expense.
when it's another, we're not. Um, you know, last night the school committee voted for something that's going to require about 140k in new staffing to supervise putting the kids phones into those pouches. Um, that's a hole in their budget. Now, there's still free cash we have. Um, my what's bothering me about this is that there were known expenses coming that weren't presented at the same time we were debating the budget. So, we voted on a budget without having a true picture of the city's finances. Um, I think I'm going to vote for this, but I'm uncomfortable with the relative timing. Council Nabad.
Um I think I remember these meetings um when there was an insurance policy and it was a huge expense and the city deciding to save money um by um because of climate change, because of global warming. Um deciding to go ahead and do this. Um already the sit the the city already sets aside $500,000 a year for this. Um and what happens above and beyond that is really out of our control. Um unless we start like I don't know sucking up clouds or something. I don't I don't know. Um but um you know this is um as the mayor has said it is uh actually Meg asked a question that I was going to ask which is did we know um if we were going to be a recipient um of uh a little bit of money from the state budget um to be reimbursed for such a difficult winter and hopefully that we will um but if not um I think it would be a good idea over time to you know sort to be able to check out what the averages are, you know, over time. But I think that we're in very difficult times in terms of climate right now, and it's really hard to predict. Um, I don't think it really matters whether the money comes from free cash or the general budget. It's it's the money's going to come anyway.
So, um, uh, this is going to be a yes for me.
>> I'll move to approve.
>> Is there a second?
I'll second that.
>> I think Director Lascalia would like to Oh, uh, Director Lascalia, you want to say something or >> Okay. Hi, counselors. I just want to clarify um a couple of things for you.
Um, so before we're able to close snow and ice, we actually have to work through fixing all of our equipment that has been damaged throughout the winter season. So, we've actually been doing that over the last couple of months and just finished up. That's why you didn't see this order sooner. Um, we have a lot of vehicles and specialized equipment that is used specifically for snow removal and we have to work through the process of getting that sort of worked through so it's ready to go for next winter um before this season snow and ice closes. So that's why this order was not before you um sooner than now.
That's the first piece of this. Um the second piece of this is that expenses are obviously variable from year to year. We buy varying amounts of road salt depending on snow and ice events.
So um you know we bought a huge amount of salt this year relative to what we bought in previous years. Um and we actually um did a tally and worked almost 13,000 hours um to control snow and ice uh throughout the city over the winter. So, um really significant level of effort um that has actually exceeded anything I've seen in my tenure here.
So, um just a lot of credit to my department. Um but this is the cost of it. Um so I think that the snow and ice budget that is submitted in the budget is sort of a starting point and in general um it's not an inaccurate number except when there is extraordinary circumstance. um the overages that you see if you look historically are not as significant as this one. Um so I think in general $500,000 is a decent starting point. You don't want to overestimate something like this because the money has to come from somewhere else if you are going to overestimate this. Um so those are my comments. I hope they're helpful. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Director Lcalia.
>> Um >> yeah, um you have a question.
>> Just a question. Um, that 13,000 hours, is that your staff or does that include contracted workers or is that the DPW staff?
>> Um, that's just DPW staff.
>> Thanks.
>> Okay. Um, anything else for the director?
>> Okay, Council Robbins.
>> I'm sorry, Mary. One more question. I'm still stuck on why the money comes from free cash and not the general stabilization fund. Is there not the funding for that? Why would why the priority from free cash?
>> I think we generally have taken it from free cash when there's free cash available.
>> Could we have taken it from the general stabilization fund?
>> I believe I've already answered that question which is we could.
>> Right.
>> But we've put it forward from free cash because there's free cash available.
>> And do you have any idea how much is in the general stabilization fund at this point?
>> I don't have that number with me.
>> Thank you.
>> I I I gave it very recently though. you could go back and >> look at past meetings.
>> Okay, Council Strat. And then we were starting to have a motion on the floor here that I'd like to get to.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, I I appreciate, you know, learning about how the equipment repairs needed to be closed out and things. I still think it would have been very useful to have an announcement that this was coming, an estimate, some idea that this was going to come because I think that, you know, two weeks ago, we thought the money was all spent and now we learn there these other things.
information. Director Lascalia said she will be back before us with an order to finish this up during the budget hearings. She said that >> I'm sorry I missed that.
>> Um, >> I'm sorry.
>> Okay.
>> Um, if if I may get to my question though, um, of the 698 free cash left, are there plans for that or are we going to leave it in free cash such that I believe we then can't touch it until December? I mean, are we going to put it in stabilization?
>> That's not what we're agenda. We're trying to get this uh passed now. Um, >> a point of order. I think it's very much a part of the question because we're we're drawing money out of a fund and we need to really be aware of that particular fund and what its uses are and it's a legitimate question just to ask that. I think it's we need to pay this. It was explained why we need to take the money out of there. So the rest of the money that's in free cash is another conversation.
Um, so, uh, councelor Perry, you were making a motion.
>> Yeah, I seconded that.
>> And then, yeah.
>> Yeah. So, councelor Perry made the motion to approve and then councelor Dub seconded it. And roll call, please.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> yes.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> Councelor Loiselle, >> yes.
>> Councelor Nabad, >> yes. Councelor Perry.
>> Yes.
>> And councelor Robbins.
>> Yes.
>> Um so we have unanimous uh approval.
Um next is 26.091. In order to authorize fiscal year 2027 inter municipal agreements. This is the first reading.
Um would you?
>> Sure. So this is an annual order. Um you have this before you every year. So these are intermunicipal agreements that we have with other communities um that generally we provide services for um and uh or also um collaborations uh collaborative agreements that we have with other communities. So again this is something that you vote on every year um just to authorize these agreements. Many of them have been standing for decades and decades.
>> Thank you. Um any questions or motions?
>> Motion to approve.
>> Oh wait.
>> Um actually um motion >> well the uh sorry um so we need to either refer this to the fin to finance or the consent agenda.
>> Motion to refer this to the consent agenda.
>> Is there a second?
>> I'll second. So, Councelor Nabad made a motion to refer to consent agenda and councelor Davis seconded it and then roll call, >> please.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> Councelor Loiselle, >> yes.
>> Councelor Nabad, >> yes.
>> Councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> And councelor Stratton, >> yes.
Um next is 26.095 in order to transfer fiscal year 2027 copy city copier budget from central services to IT. This is a first reading. Uh so if we uh can have a motion to refer to finance or consent agenda.
>> Motion to refer to the consent agenda.
Uh >> motion made by councel Abad consent agenda. Is there a second?
Second.
>> Second by councelor Stratton. Um I think we can just um have a voice vote for this. Is that right? I have these notes here.
>> Well, it's not an appropriate.
>> So, yeah.
>> And I'm I'm happy to speak to this quickly now if if there's any questions about it if it's going to the consent agenda.
>> Sure.
>> It's very simple. So, it is now going to be handling all of our copier contracts.
And so, this is just a switch from the the budget that you just approved. Um, there is no change in the budget.
There's no monetary change or um uh amount change. This is literally just moving it from central services in their budget to the IT budget. And um this just covers the city side. It is working with the schools on their copy contracts, but this is just for moving the the city copier contract from that one department central services over to its thank you. Um I'm sorry, did we have did we have a motion? Yeah, Council Abad and then Davis. Who seconded it?
>> Stratton.
>> Stratton. Um so and we could just have voice vote for this one.
>> Good.
All in favor say I.
>> I.
>> I.
>> I.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Um unanimous eight for approval.
>> Yeah. Consent.
>> Um so we have an uh 26.081 in order accepting the provisions of MGL chapter 40U. This is a second reading. Um there I think Alan has a >> Yeah. Um >> staff if you have council president um mayori let us know that there was a request that felt like this was a little disjointed last time. So I I and and actually honestly councelor Perry councelor Dubs and councelor Stratton all of you have been involved in this conversation. So if I say anything wrong please speak up. Please interrupt me.
That's absolutely fine. But I just a quick history of what this how this came about and why it's here. Um so the the challenge that we faced is over the last several years um the city council the ordinance review committee some residents and city staff have had repeated discussions about enforcement of ordinance related to sidewalks. not the actual ordinances of the sidewalks, but how we enforce it and how we actually make uh this stick because the law exists that if you don't shovel your sidewalk or you don't uh uh cut your bushes, um we can find you and it provides for a fine. And so there's been a lot of discussion u asking the city to do more of that and how we go about that. Generally, the city has the challenge has been it's very difficult to uh collect those fines and the city's goal mostly has been compliance. So, we have sent folks out to ask people to shovel their walks when they don't. Um, and that has had mixed success and we have definitely got some feedbacks uh that people wanted us to try harder to to uh use fines to get compliance. Um, so uh when sidewalks are not shoveled, older adults, residents with disabilities, parents pushing strollers, school children, transit users, anyone who walks around has a harder time. Um and so the weakness in the current system is that if you try to enforce those fines, uh it goes to the courts and that is a place where uh it is either uh asking the city to spend and I don't know what the actual amount is, but let's just make up $500 to get the 50 of the fine if we send Alan Seawald there. Um he's not that expensive, but it could take some time. and and also the district attorney doesn't want a bunch of these uh cases to come before him um because it chucks the court system up which is already pretty uh uh busy and so 40U has existed for some time and we were fortunate that several folks suggested this ID to us. Um it 40U does not create any new violations. It doesn't change the the parameters around which uh you the width of the sidewalk was discussed last time. None of that is in play here. all we are doing it doesn't eliminate it doesn't increase the fines it doesn't eliminate due process it does not prescribe exactly how we implement a hearing process it simply provides municipalities with a more practical way to enforce the ordinances we already have and so basically it enables us to set up a hearing process and we have an example of this in the city and I don't know if it would be exactly the same as this or if we would overlay this because I've heard from the treasur collector that there are some some nuances here, but this is a conversation we can have after we adopt 40U or not. This simply allows us to start thinking about exactly how we would implement it. But right now for abandoned cars and parking, um you can request a hearing. You don't go to it's the judicial process for it. uh you you go in and it's usually Nancy Foresttoall who in this room hears things and people are allowed to bring uh lawyers with them or friends or family with them and they present reasons why a ticket they don't feel it was just or it's hard for them and some of the time there is mitigation uh applied to that process which is exactly what would happen and there's a taxi cab mitigation process that the mayor adjudicates if someone has refused a taxi cab medallion in the they can ask for a hearing in front of the mayor to talk about why not and then they the city clerk brings them right and and I think so um it's we've had one or two in my my my career with the city um but it's a way without involving the court system that the city the city can hear someone who in the case of shoveling or or removing uh vegetation might say there's a mitigating re mitigating circumstance why this happened. Um, again, all of this in service of trying to get compliance to get these things done. And then the next step that 40UP allows if we have this hearing process is for the city to have some teeth behind its fines, which means that in in a parking ticket, you get a an attachment of your fine to uh the uh DMV process, but with this, it would be on your property tax process. And so if you don't pay your fine, we no longer have to send a lawyer to court and and incur that cost. We would just say you uh we're going to add this on to your tax bill. Um so that is essentially the process we are adopting if you choose to do this. This is a response to multiple actors within the community. Uh, and we can talk more about how this process gets set up um, after we adopt the process to allow us to do that. That's all I have.
>> Thanks very much. That really helped uh, clarify things. And I think it's, you know, just being on transportation, parking, and hearing about these things come up, it's always an enforcement issue um, to uh, you know, to to find the people to go back and see if they've complied. So, this is this seems like a a really smart and efficient way to collect the fines and save us money and time and and man power to uh go around and and check on things. So, um thanks for explaining. Um any questions or is there a motion? Councelor Dubs.
>> Yeah. Um well I will make a motion but um first I'd just like to personally thank the mayor Sierra and Alan Wolf and your administration for taking this um swift and decisive action that I believe will be impactful. Um I just want to give a quick a quick background on our snow ordinance in Northampton. Um it was passed into law in 1999. So it wasn't that long ago and um and uh it was only 1990 when ADA was passed. Um it was only 20 years before that around when I was born when disabled people were still being institutionalized. Um so we're still figuring out how to adjust and and uh adapt into society disabled people, you know, how how do we fit into society that was built um before we were before we had these rights. Um so this is really significant. you know, for for the last 20 or more years that I've lived here, I've, you know, been appreciative that we had this snow ordinance, but it um seeing how it wasn't enforced enough has been impactful on my life uh in a negative way and in a lot of other people in this town. And and I can I think that this um order is proof that the mayor has been listening and has been have has had her eye on some sort of action that we could take, some sort of policy action. Um and I and so I'm just very grateful and um and I think it's I just want to emphasize the significance- because it's been over 20 years since the city has addressed this in this way this issue.
So it's not it's it's uh it's very meaningful. Yeah. And so I'll make a motion to approve.
>> Thank you.
>> I'll second that.
>> A council made by um motion made by councelor Dubs and seconded by councelor Perry.
Councelor Robbins.
Um, thank you Alan for bringing that forward. I'm always wary of approving things. I think there's lots that make sense in here before there's a process.
So, if we're approving um an ordinance that um or MGL4U that says after we approve it, then you will come up with the process. That makes me a little bit nervous. And I'm also wondering, I think I remember Chief Cartage saying um that the police department had not been collecting fines prior to this, that there was just no record of it. There might be a nice note in the door saying shovel your snow. Has that changed?
>> I think in all the conversations around the ordinance review, you you requested um a record from the police department of how and I think you're accurate. It's you're right that very few fines have been levied because pro because of the difficulty of collecting the fine um if we levied the f if we put a ticket on the door we had both an unshoveled walk and an unpaid ticket and so the goal was to knock on the door and say please do this and often times >> people will uh so police police's approach has been to just ask but enough times that it hasn't happened that this became up in ordinance that that there's more should be done and and and to quote council dubs, can we just try finding more? And so then our push back had been finding doesn't do anything because it's not worth the paper it's printed on.
This makes it worth the paper it's printed on.
>> So if we haven't been issuing fines, how do we know it doesn't work?
>> Because we have many reports from um residents saying that there are unshoveled sidewalks. So, I I've actually talked to a lot of people um about this. It has provoked some good attention. You know, oh, thank heavens, somebody's finally paying attention to what's happening with shoveling sidewalks, and I heard a lot of stories from folks about they really want something that um impacts the snow that has just fallen. They want to know that there is somebody um that there's a monitor for it. I have heard that you have a portal that's possibly in beta that people could report that there like you can report a pothole or something like that which I think would be very popular would go down really well as long as it was followed up. So that there was somebody at the other end who contacted whoever had reported it and came while that snow was on the ground to say you need to shovel the snow and you need to do what you need to do. But I I overall I I'm in favor of this, but I think it's premature before the process is in place to say a we need it.
Um if we haven't yet issued fines, um but b that um we we need to come up with something that treats the condition as it happens and not kind of forward think that that threat sitting there is going to keep people there. I heard stories from people that were really I'm sure if they came to a hearing they could talk about it. You know, I I went away. I was gone for a week. I hired a firm. They only shoveled one shovel full down the down the sidewalk. Um, and I was mortified, you know, when they came back. That kind of story. I heard that from a number of different people or from wonderful people who said, um, people in my neighborhood just couldn't get out because the snow was so bad.
They just couldn't do it. Um, and I I I'm hoping that as we forward think on this, we will be really addressing the key issues that keep people stuck in their houses where they can't get out on an immediate basis that's more proactive and that it addresses um issues across the city because apparently the where cities have implemented this, it's often really in the more congested areas. It's in the downtown or surrounding downtown areas. And those those challenges are the same for people who live um in in you know areas that are not downtown that nobody's really paying attention to.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um so we have councelor Loyel Davis and then um Dubs.
>> Thank you for that explanation, Alan. I I I was the one who asked for that because I was kind of confused at the end of the last meeting when it came up.
So I get it now. And I want to thank you uh councelor Dubs for your comments and the work you and councelor Garrick and I guess councelor Stratton did on this. Um at least that's what it sounded like I was hearing. Um what what I got from this is that this is actually less punitive than the current way we do it even though we aren't doing it because because people it's a it's a no-win situation because people want their things shoveled but they also don't want police called in and they don't want fines and they don't you know so it's it's a tricky thing. But this to me seems like a great compromise where there's a fine it's less punitive. you don't have to go to the courthouse and there's a way to um collect the fine which gives people incentive to do the job and the police aren't involved. So I think it's a great idea. So thanks.
>> Thanks. The other thing you're right, we we are trying to land this. It's called Brightly the the the the app that will let you or it's not an app. It's just a website where you can do that. The other thing is that the key club um is trying to organize Northampton High School students and junior high school students to be a strike team to go shovel for people. So ideally what will happen is we'll get the I need help through Brightly and then we will try and figure out a way to let the key club know to go help someone. So in the in the scenarios you were trying to but these are more community-based solutions that you know we're and honestly when we have Brightly it will be interesting to see if we have an uptick in reporting on this and and I think we will because it'll be suddenly very easy to do. Um so thank you. Um but the but the goal is to try and get people help too. At the same time as we ramp up our ability to enforce we also want to help people who have a hard time shoveling. Councelor Davis. Thank you.
Um >> I I just want to say that um even though I I really hear what you're saying um Councelor Robbins about um about process about being quick on the on the dime when the pro problem is happening. But I hear louder counselor Dubs emphasizing the significance and the meaningful nature of this attempt. I hear that way louder. That's just me.
And um and um I really like the idea of a hearing and um and the no police involvement. They're busy with other things. So um so I think that this is a great attempt.
>> Um quickly, please.
I I want to make sure that you know that I am fully in support of what councelor Dubs has brought to us.
>> No, I wasn't saying you weren't. I just heard that.
>> It is loud and clear and clear with my throat.
>> My comments, my comments were about how to best engage that and have it happen.
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um who's next? Uh Strat, uh Dubs then Stratton.
>> Thanks. Um yeah, I just wanted to quickly respond um to um Council Robbins and and yeah, you are it was completely accurate what you said that um we haven't been finding people um for a few years, but that's been something that we've been talking about for the last two years and and I've been emphasizing that fact at meeting after meeting and this order that we have in front of us is the mayor's response to that. So I just wanted to say that this this is the response to the fact that we haven't been doing this. You know there was um the multiple department heads voiced the reasons that we we we haven't been finding people and there are complications and so this is the response to those complications. Um and so that's why I will be supporting it.
And I just wanted to add um that yeah this isn't like the solution that's going to fix everything. I don't think that it's just that we have we have to do something and this is something you know and so I will be looking forward to working on other things that we can do to help with snow removal but this is something and it is significant and so I'm going to support it.
>> Thank you. So councelor Stratton then councelor Perry then me.
>> So you know I agree we need to do something. I mean I've spent time last winter walking around downtown with a snow shovel trying to figure out what could be fixed, what couldn't, trying to understand the problem. um particularly the problem how curb cuts keep getting refilled. Yes, the current ordinance says you got to clear it if you're reading it as a lawyer, but most people don't read that into it when they when they see it. The law is not instructive.
My concern here is that we're putting the cart before the horse. Um we're we're reaching for the hammer without really figuring out how much of the problem is a nail. Um I would also mention that this does if we adopt this, this doesn't just apply to the snow and vegetation ordinances. It applies to municipal fines in general. So, I don't really think we've thought about what box we're maybe opening there. Um, yes, they we have not fined people. There's been a hesitance to do that. Some part of that clearly comes from the legal complexity of, you know, if the person doesn't pay up, then what do we do? Um, I think part of it also comes from a very human desire to, you know, we want the shovel, we want the sidewalk cleared. Um, we don't want to just be punitive and issue a fine. Um, so that's why I've been even, you know, back in January suggesting, hey, let's issue the fine, but let's make it easy to dismiss the fine on a first offense if you promptly correct it. Um, so that it's not just a warning. It's it's, you know, if you don't pay it, it was a fine. If you do pay it, it was effectively your one warning. Um, I don't want to get this caught in an extended, you know, just we refer this and it doesn't go anywhere. And talk is cheap like that.
And that's why I sat down and I put a bunch of ideas on paper as 2608, which is an ordinance to, you know, re rewrite a lot of the snow ordinance. Um, fix things that are unclear. Um, clarify the amount of width that's actually needed. I don't think the current law meets the standards to be enforceable under 40U. Um, try to balance the things that actually, you know, achieve mobility versus the things that are just um, silly and almost in some cases superhumanly impossible work. So, I want to see us do something. I want to see us do something soon. I feel like just adopting this on its own is kind of taking the easy way out and not really dealing with the problem. So, I would like to see us deal with the snow ordinance itself and then add this on top of it.
>> Okay. Thank you, uh, Cer Perry.
>> Yeah. So, all right. Let's just be real.
This has been an issue for a bit. The ordinance review committee has hours of discussion about this. Some of you were at those meetings before you were elected as counselors. I saw C Meg Robbins there at some of our meetings.
Christopher, you've been there as well.
Um, our recommendations literally state that this is something that we felt transportation and parking should take up immediately. We talked about this, councelor Dubs and I, when we were here before you all. We've done this work.
This is just a part of it. We want to give these tools to those people. your upcoming, you know, ordinance. That's something that really should be a parking and transportation. Let us be productive. Talking about these things again here in this body for me feels like it disregards the work that councelor Dubs, myself, councelor Molton, and the other two people who were part of this um ordinance review committee have done. We have done this work. We have talked about it and I agree with you. Let's get to working on it. Let's put it there. Let's show up.
You know, councelor U Stratton, show up at these parks of transportation. keep your foot on the gas, make sure that we take these steps, but right now we're just kind of talking in circles. This is it. As councelor Dub said, this is in reaction to one part of it. Also, I do want to state that while it was said that they can't remember the last time there are fines, it did not no one stated that we have never tried finding.
Okay, >> so that is very important to understand.
It was not stated. They just said we don't remember the last time we have in our administration. We also stated in our ordinance review committee that there should be more logs. you know, again, we are talking about things that we've discussed before. So, let's move this forward so we can have these discussions um in in a place that we can actually get to doing the work. That's where I'm standing and that's why um you know, I'm feeling like we should just call to order. Like we're just we've talked about this whole thing um for a bit. So, I'm going to call question.
>> Okay. So, um uh councelor Perry called the question. So, um just roll call now, right?
>> Yep.
>> So, roll call please. floor.
>> Do we need to >> do we need to take a vote on calling the question?
>> Okay. So, let's take a vote on calling the question then.
>> Wow. Now you're >> okay.
Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Have to abstain as well. Thank you.
>> No.
>> Davis.
>> Yes.
>> So we >> Yes. So we have six yeses, two abstensions, and one no. So it passes.
So now we go and >> um So do we have to make a motion to if it's a positive or negative or just >> um there's already a motion to approve.
>> It was I kind of lost track.
>> Okay. So let's just um we're vote now.
We're just voting on a motion to approve.
>> Okay. Um, councelor lo, excuse me, Loyal.
>> Yes.
>> Mayori, >> motion to approve.
>> Yeah, the provision 40U.
>> Can you just remind me which way you are?
>> We're at 40U. Um, about the snow removal lines.
>> 10A.
>> 10A. Yeah. Yes.
>> Um, councelor Nabad.
>> 10.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Perry.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Robbins. Abstain.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> no.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> And councelor Cleur, >> yes.
>> So, we have seven yeses, one abstension, and one no vote.
>> That's correct.
>> Okay, so that passed. Um, we're we're done with this. So, >> comment to make. I didn't get to make because >> discussion over.
>> Yeah, discussion's over. We're moving on.
Can I request a recess?
>> Yeah. Um recess for it's 8:31. We'll come back at 8:40.
>> Um so we're Okay.
Okay. Welcome back to the Northampton City Council and we are on to I believe we're on to orders.
10, right? 10 A.
>> No, 10.
>> Oh, I'm sorry. 10B.
26.086. 086 an order to approve a conservation restriction in the mineral hills on first reading and yes would uh the mayor's office like to speak to this it's in first reading there's no vote tonight >> is Sarah >> oh right Sarah let's see there she is I see her hi Sarah >> hello um so uh synopsis on this one council had approved the purchase and related conservation restriction of the mineral hill south crashion property which we just recently closed on back in 2025 because this is a conservation restriction that will be held by a third party uh in this case the Kestrel land trust EA's interpret so environmental um agency of the state's interpretation is that council needs to make a totally separate vote to approve the document itself and that approval cannot take place until after the executive Office of Environmental Affairs has approved the document which you you've seen in your council materials. Um so it it's approving something that you've already approved essentially. Um we're we're really excited to be able to preserve this property. Uh it's it's a great opportunity for the city. Kestrel is excited about it and we hope that you'll reaffirm this conservation restriction.
>> Okay.
>> Move to approve.
>> Oh. Uh no. This this so this Yeah. So, um we can ask I would um No, that's okay. Um if we have questions for Sarah about, uh any any follow-up questions and this will just appear on our next agenda. But if counselors, while we have Sarah here, um if you have any inquiries, it would be good to make them now.
Okay. Oh, yes. Councelor Stratton, >> I just want to make a quick comment that um the mountain laurel happens to be in bloom right now. It's really beautiful, but it's already starting to fade. So, um go out there, go to the entrance on Drury Lane and go in, go up the old path, the steep path up the hill or the new path right after the fence to the right across the field and go check it out. Um it probably won't be like that again after a week until next summer.
>> Thank you. That sounds beautiful. Okay.
So, yes. So, that will appear on uh July 15th and we are up to um ordinances not yet referred.
We have 26.083, an ordinance relative to parking on Elm Street.
Uh 26.084, 084, an ordinance relative to no parking at certain times on Elm Street. Again, in first reading, 26.085, an ordinance relative to bus stop locations, and 26.088, an ordinance to clarify uh sidewalk snow removal requirements in first reading.
So, let's start with um an ordinance relative to parking on Elm Street. I move to approve to send to legislative matters.
>> Yeah. Thank you. So motion to approve.
Uh second motion to refer. Second by councelor >> uh Dubs to refer and yeah >> join and >> Sure. Yes. Yes, you could group those. I didn't want to group yours because I wanted you to speak to it, but yeah. Um well, except for now we have a motion on the We'd have to withdraw that motion.
Is that uh >> Yeah, withdraw the motion. Yeah. Or no, we uh we could let's withdraw if if there's no um objection, then uh we will withdraw uh council's motion and we will uh councelor Stratton just made a motion to send A through C to legislative matters. Uh so that's a motion. Do we have a second for >> second >> second by councelor Cleur?
>> Okay. Any discussion before we vote to refer?
>> Just a process question. So who um so these go to legislative matters. Does somebody speak to them at legislative matters?
>> Yes. Right. Well, yes, we'll have to Yeah. Okay. Get someone to speak to them. Right.
>> I have a question too.
>> Yeah.
>> Um why would we refer this to legislative matters as opposed to transportation and parking?
>> Well, you know, we can refer it to more than one place. It le legally has to go to this is the only kind of thing that legally has to go to legislative matters. That's why I always kind of you know note that we don't have a lot of choice in the matter but uh but you c you could uh refer it to another often we'll go to one place or and then it'll go yes >> I just want to observe these come recommended to us by transportation and parking >> yeah so that right so in this case >> Keith on the >> oh Keith yeah thank you >> yeah Keith >> hi good evening >> thank you um council Stratton hit it on the head. Uh, this was referred to TPC.
I did present to them. Um, and as a matter A, B, and C are just kind of al together. Um, so they are talking about the same location. Uh, but I will be at legislative matters to discuss them and answer any questions.
>> Excellent. Thanks, Keith.
>> Another process question though. So, so we can discuss it. A legislator ask questions, but then what if other people, other counselors have questions?
>> It comes back.
>> So, >> I know it comes back here, but so then he has to come back to a third meeting.
>> Yeah, this is what we've kind of discussed before and uh it would be good to choose a substantive conversation, either the first or the, you know, or the second one. So, if you know if if folks have questions for Keith while he's here, certainly, especially people not on legislative matters, it'd be great to take advantage of Keith being here.
>> Yes, Councelor um Perry and then councelor Nabad.
>> I was going to say it is at the discretion of the chair. So, you know, at at some meetings if if there are people from different who aren't part of the body, you can see if they want to ask questions who are there. So it's up to the counselors to join as well.
>> Okay. So I'm just trying to cl clarify with with Keith Benoy, you know, like he's here now and he's going to come to the legislative matters and then maybe he doesn't need to come to the the next city council meeting.
>> That's the hope. If we've, you know, asked questions and if councilors have questions after this, um, then we can maybe get them answered. And if counselors don't, then often we don't have a staff member return.
>> Okay. Thanks. But they usually, you know, will will be willing to. But yes, it would be nice for staff if we >> Well, we have a legislative matters on June 29th. Everybody's welcome.
>> So, great. Thank you. Yeah. And just uh it's it's true uh council that you can refer to either, you know, you could either sequentially or do joint um subcommittees, you know, in general.
Yeah, this one already went there, but you can do that. So, you're you're correct. Okay. So, uh, yes. Anyone else?
And you know, we have three here.
Counselor. Oh, I'm sorry. C, >> I'm sorry. I >> No, I think I skipped you. Did I?
>> No, that's okay. Um, I just wanted to ask Keith or just in general, I think, um, the bus stop ordinance is the work that, um, Councelor Molton and councelor Jarrett did >> um, straightening out the bus stop situation and getting everything organized. Is that what this is?
>> Uh, yes. I I work with councelor Jarrett on that last year. And so the C um C26085 that is that is um a document you've seen most of this body. Um some you did not see it the last time. Um but we are just bring it back again because there was just some errors in there. Um uh but um yeah. So, um, >> okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah, I'd sort of just been wondering if we could get the 30 secondond summary of what's going on. It looks like, you know, there's a long list of bus stops, a few changed, and one requires a parking change to fit it in. Um, this is the kind of case where it would be great to have, you know, what changed from the old to the new. I mean, I almost thought about running this through software developer tools that do that just because it's such a long list, but I meant to do that and I didn't.
>> Yes. So, the first two A and B are uh well, there's two two parts of this. Um, one is to amend the parking the bus stop uh the actual bus stop on Elm Street south of Harrison.
So that would means we are changing the legal parking. So the parking um on Elm Street and then the no parking at certain times. So physically we are proposing to change the parking. So there'll be a removal of parking uh because we're going to be installing a bus stop. So the bus stop is physically going to take up where that parking is.
The third one um that big list one line of that will be amending that one bus stop on Elm Street to change the bus stop physic physically.
The rest of that big uh list is us verifying the bus stops that already existed that PVTA operated. So last year, as councelor Nabad talked about, he me and councelor Jarrett went and we verified um all the 84 bus stops we have in the city that PBT operates. But at that time there was only six that were in ordinance. So for us to legally kind of um enforce no parking at the bus stop, we had to define what those bus stops are. So nothing changed physically with all those. Uh, we just kind of cleaned up the language. Um, added the PVTA reference number. So if you call a PVTA and say bus stop 225, they know exactly what it is. But at least here we kind of combine them. So we know physically this is at the intersection of such and such, but we can also communicate PVTA with just, hey, stop 225. Um, part of that too is just making the ref the references easy. So instead of a thousand feet from Main Street, it might be just 100 feet in the other direction.
So just kind of click cleaning that up um and making the enforcability a little easier and be able to find it. Um, so this uh uh C 26085 the big list that did go in front of this body previously. it was approved. Um but unfortunately the last the most updated version was not shared with the council and so while we're already bringing in this other amendment might as well bring it together so you're all seeing the full picture and so you can see it. Um so it's mo mostly administrative uh us trying to define what is out there. Um and um you know this is not looking at um accessibility or their infrastructure or any of the physical um kind of dimensions. Um I did a few full ADA accessibility audits on a few of these um and they're very timeconuming like um and so just 84 of them kind of dispersed throughout the city. Um and that's not part of uh kind of what we're doing. Um, but the new bus stop on Elm Street, we do have money to make it fully accessible. Um, it's going to uh breathe right at the curb. Uh, and I think we're proposing also to put in a um bus um the structure there.
>> Yes. Councelor Nabad.
>> Okay. And then Keith, I do have a question about the bus stop, the new bus stop across from Bridge Road um at the new affordable housing community. Um uh that is where people are getting dropped off. Um but there's it's a really unsafe intersection and um >> so I wondered if you could talk about that.
>> Uh yes. uh um I walked that um doing the measurements and it is indeed not uh particularly good especially the northbound so the opposite side of the u prospect place there um this ordinance is not looking at that um we're not we um for locations that um wasn't really clear because we didn't have it in the ordinance we did work with PVDA to kind of find the best option to clarify if it's past a intersection or not. And that one um you know there's not a good space for it. Um we don't have like a sidewalk on this.
So recognize that it's not the safest and that there's high traffic and people speed through there. Um but this ordinance is not um kind of proposing any um safety upgrades or anything like that. Um you know bus stops are to make a fully accessible bus stop um to have a sidewalk. Um you know we're talking you know between 10 and we need it designed.
So um you know it's several thousand dollars. Um and uh you know there's not um a good funding stream for that. Um so um but what we can do we we will do. Um and um yeah I I can't say too much because this ordinance is not looking at any type of physical upgrades.
>> Councelor Stratton.
>> Yeah. I would just like to observe that councelor Namad Nimad has made a very important point. I remember hearing about this in the past. I'm just looking at pictures of it right now. Um, and you know, it's it's not just the bus stop problem there. It's also that little section of Hatfield Street that dips.
You know, people go shopping at at Walmart and Big Y and they come back with their shopping cart and their kids on that road. And I'd like to see us figure out how to talk about this in the future. Obviously, tonight is not when we're going to solve this, but we should kind of like note toelves come back to this.
>> Yeah, I've I've gotten those emails.
That's butts my ward. So, um um I'm just wondering so the the remind me are these the the spots that were in front of Tandem on North Main. No, that we got rid of for that bus stop. Remember we move we the bus stop got moved uh kind of near Florence the back of Florence Hardware.
And it's okay. I can go look at a map, but I was just curious if those were the ones that we were removed in this Um this um so the Florence Hardware um there's Yes. So the past tandem so this um the ordinance the bus stop ordinance as it sits um it does have the >> um the what was previously the bus stop was right in front of Tandem Bagel. Um and so the bus would have to stop double park at the intersection. Um, obviously that's not safe for anyone. And so we proposed and this ordinance has the bus stop kind of past that building, next building kind of where >> um there's a break and no parking before the uh intersection there left to go to the Lily Library.
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that. Any other um questions about any of these three before we move on? Wait. So, we have a a motion. Yeah. So, um any anything before we do a vote? Okay.
Guess we can vote to um refer. Okay.
>> Um Councelor Mayori, >> yes.
>> Councelor Nabad, >> yes.
>> Councelor Perry, >> yes.
>> Councelor Robbins, >> yes.
>> Councelor Stratton, >> yes.
>> Councelor Davis, >> yes.
>> Councelor Dubs, >> yes.
>> Councelor Cleur, >> yes. and councelor Loris.
>> Yes. Okay. Those will go on to legislative matters. And now we have 26.088, an ordinance to clarify sidewalk snow removal requirements. Um, councelor Stratton, would you like to read it or certainly we'll start start with you and anything you want to say about it or read it or >> I I mean I think tonight's probably not the night to get into, you know, going through the whole language. The um preamble is very long. I tried to explore some of the issues, um, some of the balance of concerns, some of why maybe the current ordinance and just enforcing it more heavily isn't going to be the solution by itself. Um, and really use that language to make the case for some of the ideas I set out later. Um, yes, we've talked about, you know, this topic a lot. What I haven't seen is a specific list of proposals other than the enforce harder part, which I might have been willing to vote for after having this discussion. Um, this wasn't meant to be necessarily the version that would become law. This was meant to put some ideas on paper for, you know, my fellow counselors to talk about. Um, quite probably for transportation parking to talk about.
I'd love to hear what various members of the disability commission and of course members of the public say about this.
Um, these were meant to be ideas, not dictates.
One of the things I believe very strongly is that the law should be instructive. The law is a balance of what neighbors expect from neighbors. It sets the expectations and you know there are things in our snow ordinance like the obligation to refill a curb cut after it's been cleared not just I've filled not just by the plow but just by traffic going by pushing that snow back into it. I mean days later a sidewalk that was wheelchair accessible ceases to be.
That's a real problem. Um, so I I've tried to dig into some of those areas where, you know, maybe if a lawyer reads the snow ordinance, they come to the conclusion of what's needed, but to try to really clarify the public expectation and yes, discuss what the balance of, you know, what actually enables accessibility versus what is just asking someone to do extra work. Um, obviously we're not going to debate this or vote on it as a measure tonight. Um but I I wanted to put some ideas out there and you know see what the the broader reaction is.
>> Okay. Thank you counselor. So your vision um is to refer to legisl I mean >> legally it would have to go to legislative matters to move forward. Um I understand that the matter itself is already before transportation and parking although without this document as a possible reference for that. Um, you know, I I kind of surprised nobody's really commented on it to me yet in email or anything. So, >> okay. Yeah, maybe once it goes to the subcommittees, councelor Dubs and Councelor Perry.
>> Uh, thank you. Um, I think that this is pretty obviously written by someone by one person who didn't consult with anybody before they wrote it. Um it I would like to comment on the uh whereas where it says it's widely understood that a 36-in clear path is sufficient for wheelchair travel. Um yeah 36 in is the minimum. That's that's right Chris. But Northampton goes for the full width because that is more accessible. To go backwards and make it 36 in is going backwards in accessibility. And if this were to become law, I would go in the streets and protest against it. That's how against this I am.
>> Okay. Um, Councelor Perry and Councelor Stratton. Well, uh, I think councelor Dubs kind of addressed what I was going to bring up is that I I am not here to u bemoone anyone taking initiative to I I see the intent there, but um when I see something that comes before us that is going to go to legislative matters that hasn't has not been discussed with anyone else um I I am very hesitant. I think that um it could have been discussed with people on parking and transportation disability commission before it got here. Um so that we don't have situations like this. I mean, there's I I it feels to me that you you are very much um and and I think we all are, but you particularly, Council Stratton, um you know, this you're passionate about this, and I would hope that uh before we move this forward in this body, that you would take that passion and go to some other bodies um and and even just talk about language with some some people, someone from the disability commission could have helped um a lot. So, I am in the same space that I I I don't think this is this is ready for us at all.
>> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Stratton.
>> Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but the reason I wrote this quickly is because 40U was on our agenda for a vote tonight, and I really wanted us to look at these topics before we voted on that.
I was really hoping that they would end up before committee together. Obviously, that did not happen. Um, I might have been willing to vote for 4U after working through these things. I was not willing to vote for it, you know, before doing so. So that's why I, you know, just sat down and marathon rushed this out by myself to get the matter itself before the council as I tried to do more generically two weeks ago. In terms of the 36 in, we're not getting 36 in today. I mean, that's inspired by things like when I was waiting for counselor Dubs, a young woman came out in a wheelchair, a manual wheelchair, and she couldn't roll down the sidewalk because she couldn't get her hands on the outer hand wheels. Fortunately, there was just enough space that her friend could push her and they they scraped snow off the side. People, you know, they think I shoveled one shovel width and I'm good.
So, is 36 in a decrease of the technical requirement of the law? In some cases, yes. But it's an increase over what we're actually getting. And it's an increase guided by Massachusetts Accessibility Board standards, which say that 36 in clear path. However, after 200 ft, you need a turning area or a passing area of at least 500 ft. I think in most cases, a driver would satisfy that. But if we want to add that to the law, too, that after 200 ft, it needs to expand to 500 ft, that's fine. 36 in is well more than we're getting today. It meets the needs and it's more humanly possible than saying that you have to move all that snow and ice that was plowed from the road onto the curb. You have to manually move that from one side of the snow sidewalk to the other. Now, I've gone in Florence and Center and done that myself to clear the bus stop and just getting 4 ft of curb clear by moving that whole plow pile manually.
That was quite a task, but I did it several times last winter. This tries to adjust that. You know, do I think that my 5t before the bus sign is a little bit silly? No. Yes, I put it in there as a placeholder to adj address the issue.
So, I'm trying to call attention to the places where the wording of our snow ordinance is non-instructive, does not achieve wheelchair passable sidewalks, and does not do the job it needs to do.
>> Okay, Councelor Perry, >> I So, again, I'm not bemoning you for for the intent behind it. I do want to remind you that you are one person and I'm the suggestion is by discussing these things with other people who have different perspectives perhaps you can come upon something that works more broadly and generally you don't have to be right all the time and you do not have to do everything by yourself.
>> You just shut down question but discussion by calling the question on the previous item. So >> okay let's let's take turns. Yep. So uh >> okay I'm gonna go I'm gonna go to councelor Dubs. I do want to just this certainly can go to legislative matters. You also as the sponsor could uh find another course if you'd like. So you can think about that.
We can take you know we could we could if you would like to to workshop it in other you know informally or informally in other committees before it goes to legislative matters you can you can let us know. But let me go to councelor Dubs and then I'll come back to you.
>> Thanks. Um, first I just I think that the um I've heard you twice now refer to shoveling more than 36 in with I've heard you refer to it as extra work and I've heard you refer to it as silly work. And I just want to say that that's highly offensive to not just me but to many people in this city. And um and yeah, you're right. Sometimes we don't get the the 36 inches width on the sidewalks. And I'm the kind of I'm the person that gets stuck on those sidewalks. Not you. I'm the person who is sat in the freezing cold at nighttime waiting for someone to walk by to help me out of the snow. That hasn't happened to you, Captain Stratton.
>> And no, and I'm not asking you to interject. I'm talking >> two years ago out that curb cut. I went a We are not doing a back and forth. We are not doing a back and forth.
Councelor Nabad and then councelor Cleur.
Well, I just want to say that I keep seeing new city councilors bringing things to council and instead of trying to work with the greater community, work with different committees, trying to get support behind these things. And um you know I will just give as an example the rodenticide um ordinance that has been taking us six months right now to work on. It's it's not a fast process.
We don't jam these things in um to try to get something to not happen. um you know, we we we go through a process and um if you heard my announcement tonight about the cancellation, I mean, that's another little setback, but that's how it is. And um I just want to say, you know, it's it's really a shame to me what's happening on this council about in regards to um the no votes all the time, voting against everything, voting against ju just just these these these protest votes, these these protest things that are obstructing the functioning of our city government and really offensive and abbleist and yeah um it's it's highly problematic highly highly problematic and um I just want to express my disappointment tonight in this that this even got on the agenda.
>> Okay. Thank you councelor and councelor Cleur Vice President Um yeah, I just um I mean there's no time constraint anymore, so there's plenty of time to rework this and um you said nobody contacted you. I was surprised nobody contacted you about this. Um you know, you don't take I ask you questions, you don't answer them when I email you. Um you know, as a new counselor, my first um first uh >> uh point of order.
>> Yeah. What? Yes. What's your point of order? The public is not bound by open meeting law. Counselors are.
>> When I asked you a question, that's not open meeting law.
>> I told you that I thought it was a topic for a council meeting.
>> Okay. I'm not going to argue with you.
>> Okay.
>> Um but that's why people don't contact you because of this kind of stuff.
>> Um >> counselor >> time. There's no time constraint. The other thing passed. You can take this back, rework it. Um you know, my I I've never worked on a resolution. And I've worked on 13 to 14 with other counselors and senior counselors my first term. I mean, everybody was senior counselor pretty much, but um and when councelor um Jared and I, we did a resolution about the um rail trail and there was a we were saying that it was accessible and you know, I looked up what accessible means and then I was talking to Alex about it and we said, "Let's ask Jeremy. I mean, he knows better than any of us." So, um, we ran it by you and we brought you on to the resolution and you gave it your blessing and, um, um, you know, you're here for everybody to ask questions and you've been very generous with sharing your life experiences and and what you go through daily. And I don't know why people, you know, assume they know what life is like in a wheelchair and, you know, read a book or Google it and don't ask you, you know, who's really living living it. Um, you know, I think this is is not I think this needs some reworking and um, you know, I think maybe just take it back and and not bring it to legislative matters because I will I won't approve uh referring it.
>> That's not your call.
>> Hey, well, I'm just saying it. So, it is my call.
>> Council Stratton. Well, you know, two weeks ago, I actually did suggest we ask the disability commission what width of clearing was needed, and councelor Dub said, "Well, that's a standard. Look it up." So, I did.
>> Anyway, I'm going to move to refer this to legislative matters, the disability commission and transportation and parking.
Uh, council dubs, >> I just like to add that 36 inches is a minimum and many other cities in America do they they require more than 36 in including Boston which incl which requires 42 in um so this idea that this is this number 36 just um you know it fits all it's just not true. You know, disabled people are different sizes, different shapes. We are all different.
And having more than 36 inches is extremely helpful because you just don't know exactly who's going to be trying to use the sidewalks. So, we need the full width, which is what the snow ordinance says. Thank you.
>> Okay. Uh, Councelor Stratton.
>> Well, you know, last winter councelor Dubs and I were actually walking down a sidewalk, and I said, "Is that wide enough?" It I'm not sure it is. And he said, "Oh, yes. I can get down that.
>> Okay.
>> What are you trying to say? Sometimes yes. Sometimes it's wide enough.
Sometimes it's not. What are you trying to say, >> Chris?
>> Okay. Keep rolling your eyes at me.
That's fine.
>> Can I make can I make a suggestion?
>> Currently are >> you're doing a terrible job. Okay, we're going to stop this now because what I'm observing is that tensions are res running high and I would like we are almost done here and I I think that if we want to have my suggestion is that we don't continue this now when when we're not really feeling regulated. So there is a motion on the floor. Was there a second?
>> Oh, there was Well, no, Chris. Uh second, >> right, there wasn't a second. I'm sorry.
Uh there wasn't a second. Okay.
Um okay. So I believe it still is required to go to legislative matters unless right or yes.
>> Can it Yes.
>> Can I make a motion to take it off the agenda?
>> Uh no.
>> Take it off the agenda. It's on the agenda.
>> Yeah. But just to not have it on the agenda. um >> did not vote on it because um >> uh hold on just a sec. Let me just think >> legislative council chooses not to legislative matters. It doesn't proceed in the legislative process, I believe.
>> Okay. So, we would need a second. If it goes anywhere, it has to go to legislative matters, but it needs a second to got it. Thank you. Thank you.
Um so, there's is there a motion?
There's no >> There's no motion. No, it didn't pass.
Okay, >> there was no second.
>> Okay, so >> so we're on to we're on to new business then.
Any new business?
>> Okay, I'm move to adjourn.
>> Thank you.
>> Second.
>> Jeremy can have it.
>> Jeremy could have a second.
>> Okay. Okay. Councelor Nabad.
Yes.
>> Councelor Perry.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Robbins.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Stratton.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Davis.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Dubs.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Cleur.
>> Yes.
>> Councelor Loiselle.
>> Yes.
>> And councelor Mayori.
>> Yes. All right. Good evening.
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