EVERYTHING you need to know about Andy Burnham’s HISTORIC by-election victory | Makerfield EXPLAINED

[00:00:00]Come ofth the hour, come ofth the man or business as usual. As political journalists head back down to London after a fleet and visit up north, the Manchester Evening News is still here reporting about what's going on outside the Westminster bubble. Fresh from the election count and slightly blurry eyed, but that's why we've got coffee in our lovely MEM branded mugs. I am joined by a political writer Irram Ramson and Declan Curry, the local democracy reporter for Manchester City Council and the Greater Manchester Combined Authority. So, how are we both?

[00:00:38]>> Slightly sleepdeprived if I'm quite honest with you, but it was definitely an eventful night. Yeah, definitely not a dull moment.

[00:00:47]>> How about yourself, Declan?

[00:00:48]>> Well, I'm less sleepd deprived than I am, but um I'm I'm excited obviously with the big changes that have happened.

[00:00:53]It's a it's a big result. So, uh we're going to be yeah looking forward to getting into the discussion about it.

[00:00:58]>> So, what happened last night? What's the TLBR from last night? The two long didn't read.

[00:01:04]>> Andy Bernham won by an absolute um thumping majority. Um, you know, in the weeks running up to the bi-election, the polls were, you know, showing that reform and labor were very very close um separated by a couple of percentage points. And as the weeks crept up, you know, the the percentage points started um increasing ever more and it looked like a Burnham victory will be a lot more comfortable than initially assumed.

[00:01:40]Uh and last night that certainly proved to be the case. Um he received about 24,000 votes and reform came in a very distant second at uh 15,900 votes.

[00:01:56]>> So what was the mood like at the count last night?

[00:02:00]>> Well, it was, as you can imagine, um quite uh chaotic slightly. the entire media of the country has been interested in this from day one. You know, it's um it's quite unusual for bi-elections to get so much coverage and attention. Um I know there was a little bit when um the the Gorton and Denton bi-election happened, but not on this scale, not on this level. Um, and certainly when I uh first went out to the Makerfield con constituency, when I started off in Ashton, there were actually more journalists there than voters. And you know, even Al Jazzer had turned out to um to um find out what people think of this bi-election. And even a German media channel, they just said it was um going to be a very decisive bi-election.

[00:02:58]So, you know, as you can imagine, yeah, uh lots of interest from national media, uh international media. Even Hugh Grant turned up uh yesterday, well technically two days ago now um to lend his support for Andy Burnham and um you know it's it's one of those I guess because because Andy Burnham was standing and it's no surprise that you know if he won that he was going to go for the Labour leadership and that may prove to be the case. We described the mood of the account, but what actually happened at the at the count? What were there any events? Please tell me about Count Binface at some point.

[00:03:42]>> Oh, what can I say about Count Binface?

[00:03:45]Um, well, he brought uh a smile to everyone's face and much needed laughter. You know, politics is is so serious, isn't it? You know, uh candidates often accusing each other of all sorts. It's it's nice to have someone who can bring a bit of light relief to proceedings. And um one thing that um I really enjoyed was um Binface endorsing the MEN as proper journalism, you know. Uh and that came right after his interview with Sky News. So read into that what you will.

[00:04:19]>> That's some proper journalism.

[00:04:21]>> Thank you.

[00:04:22]>> I think I got a short story.

[00:04:23]>> Just wonder how you find the atmosphere here tonight.

[00:04:26]>> I'm loving it. Look, this is I have this is my magnificent seventh election and uh this is by far the most incredible venue I've been to yet. And I'm not just saying that because I'm here now. No, it's got a 24/7 cafe. The toilets are above average and it's air conditioned.

[00:04:42]What more could one want? So, I'm happy.

[00:04:44]But yeah, he um he said he didn't really want to get into um you know ad homminum attacks on candidates, but he did manage to um throw in a line or two about both Andy Burnham and reform.

[00:05:00]>> Um any other things from from the count that you think stood out? Any other moments?

[00:05:05]>> Yeah, so there was one quite interesting moment uh well apart from Bin Vase. Um, and it was my hunt for Restore Britain's Rebecca Sheepard. Now, um, ever since Restore announced her as their candidate, the MEN has been contacting her every single week. We've been in touch with the party. Um, trying to get interviews. Uh, we invited her to our hostings up in Stanley College. U, we had near radio silence from her. you know, there was um maybe one or two messages that they responded to um said, "Yeah, we might be able to do an interview."

[00:05:47]And then just poof, nothing. Um and when we went out to speak to voters across the constituency, a lot of them said, "Oh, they they hadn't even seen her. We don't even know who she is." Uh and you know, it's there was some funny comments being made about her being this kind of ghost candidate. does she really exist?

[00:06:09]And so um earlier this week um just the day before the election, I actually went out um into Wigan and made one last attempt to try and find her. And I went to three different venues and didn't meet her at all. Contacted her press office and they said they would um respond with a comment um and they didn't.

[00:06:34]So, I thought, "Okay, well, that's our last chance then until um I actually spotted her coming out of the lady's toilets in the center." And unfortunately, I I didn't have my phone or notepad with me, so I couldn't really chase her for a comment because I wouldn't have been able to remember it.

[00:06:50]But she was um she was with uh security, I think, anyway. Um and um later on in the evening I went into the um cafe in the edge center and lo and behold there she was sitting down uh with a cup of coffee with her team. So I just went over introduced myself and uh I said hi Becca you know I'm from the Manchester Evening News. we've been trying to get a hold of you um you know for the past couple of weeks and would just love um a brief comment from you, you know, even if it's just a minute, we just want to know um how you feel about today and uh what you stand for and what you'll do for Makerfield. And she just said, um no, thank you. Uh I'm all right, thank you. And you know, when I pushed her a little bit further, um you know, I pushed back a bit further and she said, "Well, um there's been a complete um uh blackout from the media, so I'm returning the favor." And I said, "Well, it's not been a blackout from us.

[00:07:58]We've been trying to contact you for several weeks." And then she said, "I'm all right. Thank you. No, thank you."

[00:08:03]And yeah, had to just leave it at that.

[00:08:06]So, um, on a positive note, I can confirm she does exist and she was at the count. Um, on the downside, we still couldn't get a comment from her.

[00:08:20]>> So, you guys have both been on the ground in Maker Fields um, over the election campaign. What was what did you learn about Makerfield over this campaign?

[00:08:29]>> Well, it's a it's a great place. I I have to say I I hadn't been there too much before the campaign started. my my job keeps me um closer to to Manchester really. But um you know very very friendly people there I found on the campaign trail. They were very happy to speak. Um I went to places like you know Hindley actually I didn't really spend much time in Ashton in Mayfield which is like the main hub but we tried to we tried to get to all the other areas around it didn't we? So Hindley was great. Um Win Stanley you know people were very friendly there. I I think what Iram said was was interesting how that kind of political change happened you know over the way my my first time there when I was in Himla I really struggled to find a labor voter actually it was really difficult we spent you know 2 or 3 hours there and everyone was just backing reform and yet you know a couple of weeks later a colleague went and they you know there was much more support there so I think there was that clear change people definitely were paying a lot of attention to what the candidates were saying and you know I think it influenced their views along the way as well as those who were undecided. Um, but yeah, it's a great place. It's a friendly place. Uh, good food there. Um, you know, it's known for its its pies and it's, you know, there's some cracking places there. So, um, I think all the journalists there were wellfed and enjoyed it overall, but I don't know what you made of it your own.

[00:09:45]>> Um, in terms of uh the food, yeah, I can uh agree with you. Um, but I think in the initial week or so, I think you're right in talking about how we were finding many more reform uh and potentially restore voters as well. Um, and we thought there's, you know, the polls are showing that Andy is the clear favorite here, even if it is by a couple of percentage points. So, where are all these Labour voters? Um, and I think I think it was because of um Rob Kenyon's social media post. So um the the reform candidate when he um when he was announced as the party's candidate not long after you know hope not hate the campaign group started unearthing some of his old uh media posts which showed you know some very controversial comments that he'd made over the years you know some of them quite sexist you know in one he actually said I am a sexist and you know maybe he was joking um you know because sarcasm or humor doesn't travel as well online. Um, but you know, that is quite unfortunate for him. And you know, he he was touted as this, you know, local lad, pluckucky plumber. He's not a career politician unlike some candidates. Um and yet those media posts uh I think once they did start, you know, hitting through to the constituents, um you know, my initial thought was maybe people might dismiss it as just old um maybe banter or just old posts and everyone says silly things now and then, but you know, there were just so many comments there that were very hard to explain away, especially him supporting um Russia when it uh annexed Crimea. Um and he refused to apologize. That was the odd thing about it. You know, he did acknowledge that those were old polls.

[00:11:56]He wouldn't say them now, but he stopped short of saying sorry. And I think that's what made a difference to a lot of uh voters, especially women voters as well. um you know the comments he made about women really made a difference.

[00:12:12]You know I was coming across quite a few women who said um you know there's a fine line and he seems to have crossed it um and that's why they wouldn't be voting for reform.

[00:12:25]>> There was a letter from Carol Verman to voters in Merfield to women in Makerfield. Did that intervention make a difference? Did it make an impact?

[00:12:33]>> Absolutely. Um, I was again I wasn't sure if it would um because people might dismiss it as just an online comment and she's a celebrity and you know some people don't really see that as a big deal. But um when I went a few days after that letter was um delivered um without even mentioning Rob Kenyon or his post, the women themselves said to me, I don't like his um old media post.

[00:13:03]He's clearly sexist. He has a problem with women. And you know, I think it's quite right for Carol Verman to make that intervention good on her for calling him out. Now, what I found interesting was where their vote was going to next. Um, one woman said because of reform's comments, she was going to vote for Restore Britain led by Rert Low, a great Yarmouth MP.

[00:13:28]you know, he was um part of reform until he had a massive falling out with Nigel Farage last year. Um and they the Baharti was delivering leaflets to voters and one of the pledges on there was to um improve safety for women and girls. Um, so I think that seemed to resonate with women, especially with the comments that Rob Kenyon had made and again more and more women were saying the same things that they just didn't like what he said and it was right for these comments to come out and um for them to be challenged as well. I mean, if he had just said sorry, I think that might have made some difference. Um yeah, >> there was there's also there were a lot of stories about um reform and restore and there were predictions that restore was going to split the vote. In the end, it turned out if you would have combined both of those votes, it still wouldn't have made a difference uh towards Burnham. What did you think about that sort of split that divide between reform and restore?

[00:14:31]>> Was interesting, wasn't it? Because I I felt as the campaign trail went along, you started to see more restore posters and signs on doors. So I thought it did feel like there was a presence there.

[00:14:40]But for me, you know, reform was was always the thing that was coming up. I I personally found it very rare that someone would mention restore to me in in a conversation on the street. It was, you know, a lot of reform voters were were there. A lot of people mentioning Labour, but I I just didn't come across it very much. And that that goes for some of the other parties, too, like the Greens and the Lib Dems, if I'm honest, that that really didn't come up in conversations with voters that I knew.

[00:15:04]Um, it was it was predicted, wasn't it, like you say, that, you know, Restore could actually eat into some of Reform's vote and some of their social media comments were quite quite bold in predicting that they're going to have a, you know, a huge result and and, you know, be some people looked at them as like they could be the kingmakers, couldn't they really, by standing and, you know, taking those votes from from reform, but it it ended up not happening, didn't it? It was it kind of um I suppose they might feel it was a bit underwhelming that they got I think it was around 3,000 votes in total, wasn't it? So, um I think they definitely would have been aiming for for more than that considering some of the comments they were making. Why that happened? Um it's I think it's hard to tell. Uh you know, maybe they just don't have the uh the activists and the the people on the ground in this constituency like reform does.

[00:15:50]Obviously, you know, not forgetting just a few weeks ago in May, we had the local elections where reform won sways of council seats. You know, 24 out of 25 seats. So, they've got a huge presence in Mfield already. Um and in Greater Manchester, you know, you have to say.

[00:16:03]So that could have been something that was quite crucial actually.

[00:16:05]>> I suppose the question is then what next for reform around Greater Manchester, not just in Merfields.

[00:16:13]>> Yeah. I I don't know if you want to go for that one first. Um especially with the mayoral elections coming.

[00:16:18]>> Yeah. I I mean I I don't you know they're not going away anywhere. I think they're here to stay now. Um you look at our councils, you know, like like May that we spoke about and that they have uh you know strong presence on many councils now in Greater Manchester and they they're they're you know campaigning on issues that people seem to care about, you know, and the National Party and and locally too. Um immigration was one thing that came up constantly in Makerfield. um you know so I think people looking at what Nigel Farage and the National Party say they're looking at what the local council say um now obviously Andy Bernham's an MP in Makerfield kind of the next question is what happens here because he's since being elected in 2017 he's never looked like losing that job he's he's won something like more than 60% of the votes each time he's he's you know challenged for it and he was reelected twice 21 214 so he he's really held that strongly It's interesting now because there are signs that Labour were going to have a real fight on their hands to to keep hold of the mayor now. Um looking at the political climate that we're in. Um looking at obviously Andy Burnham is not going to be the candidate anymore who had that profile. He had that presence.

[00:17:33]I remember some of the local democracy reporters doing a a big vox pop around Greater Manchester not too long ago and we asked people in all corners of the region what they think of Andy Bernham and it was overwhelmingly positive. you know, even in areas where there were, you know, um, conservative counselors, reform counselors, you know, a lot of people were very, very supportive of Burnham and positive of him. So, that's going to be a big change. I think reform will be hoping to capitalize on that.

[00:17:57]They'll they'll be really challenging for the mayorship. I think um, you know, probably next few days we're going to get candidates confirmed. They've got some experienced people in Greater Manchester, you know, who could go for that. So, I think it's going to be really interesting to watch, you know, who goes for it and what sort of campaign they run um in Greater Manchester for the mayor because, you know, you you might look at it and think it's all up in the air and open now after what's happened. Um, one other thing just to throw into the mix is this this change in voting system which has just come in as well. Um, which is going to make it maybe a little bit more unpredictable too. It used to be the old uh first pass the posts, you know, like they have when they elect MPs, whoever gets the most votes wins. But they've just changed it. Uh the government have just changed it to something called supplementary voting. So people will have first preference, second preference. Now that's going to be really interesting because, you know, you could have a situation where one party gets slightly more votes in the first round of voting, but then in the second round of voting, those secondary votes from other parties get added onto their total. So, it could completely flip, you know, the result on its head in the second round of voting pretty much. So, um, you know, it's going to be fascinating to watch and I think the most unpredictable race for the mayor we've had for since it was set up really.

[00:19:14]>> In terms of who's going to run, is it going to be a two- horse race between Labor and Reform? And have there been any names touted for the Labor candidate?

[00:19:24]Um, again, Declan might know better about um, Labour names, but I know Manchester City Council leader Bev Craig is a name that comes up a lot. Um, in terms of whether it's a two-horse race, I think, well, don't forget in the local elections, we did see, you know, the Green Party also make significant gains for the first time. And this was a council that was overwhelmingly Labor. Uh and now um you know the Greens have eaten away at that chunk. So um I'm sure uh reform will also um you know take a big chunk of that vote as well.

[00:20:09]Um I don't know about how much Labor will retain you know that but I think again Declan you might know more about this. I >> I think I think you're right. I think those those chunks of voters are going to be really interesting in how it plays out because there is a green um the Green said to me in Manchester, they said there's they want to create a green wall in Manchester now. Um you know those kind of South Manchester suburbs, not not only there, but that's where they tend to have a lot of support. Um you know, they they really won quite a lot of council seats this year. You know, they are they've got a big opposition group now on Manchester City Council, which um you know, has not been the case for for some years. and they are openly talking when I when I've asked them that they want to, you know, take control with council in the next few years. So, they're really kind of ambitious about that. Now, how that plays into the the mayor election is going to be fascinating to see, isn't it? Because you're going to have these kind of areas of Manchester that were maybe once Labor Heartlands or safe areas. Suddenly now a lot of people are voting green there. Um, you know, whe whether that carries through to the mayor election, it remains to be seen.

[00:21:12]You know, it could have been that it was a protest vote in the local election.

[00:21:16]Now Andy Bernham's in. Maybe people are thinking, well, there's if he challenges K like he's widely rumored to be, you know, to do so, then could they switch back to Labor? There's lots of questions that are going to be answered. But, you know, I think the Greens in Manchester will definitely be pushing people on that kind of, you know, vote for us, we can challenge Labour, we can challenge Kama or or whoever's in place really as prime minister at the time. Um but I think it's also worth just having a look at like you say reform as well.

[00:21:43]They they've got you know it feels like growing levels of support in parts of greater Manchester you know Wigan Tameside where they've won lots of seats. Um also the Lib Dems though you have to look at them because you know you've got places like Stockport where you know they took control of the council for the first time in something like I think it was it was over a decade. So you know they've got they've got support as well. Um, it definitely feels like, you know, it's it's I don't know whether it's a two- horse race. I couldn't I couldn't say at the minute, but I think we have to wait to see, you know, who the candidates are and what sort of campaign it is. But, um, there are lots of parties who are going to win win support. And, you know, it's not going to be a straightforward victory for any party, I don't think. I think it's interesting that it's a supplementary system this time because that might push it maybe for Labor again because if let's say you want to vote green but your second choice is Labor, could all those second preference votes add to that and push the Greens out?

[00:22:44]It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[00:22:46]>> That's that's the prediction. Yeah, I had a chat with um Rob Ford, one of the professors at Manchester University, who I think some, you know, some of us will know because he's he gives a lot of he speaks to the media a lot, doesn't he?

[00:22:56]And um he he said to me when I asked him about it, he said that it could hurt reform this because exactly like you say that the left and right block of voters who are likely to give each other second preferences. You know, you probably think it may be the Greens, maybe the Lib Dems for second preferences. is I mean you know you can't rule it out but maybe more likely to give their second preference to Labour than restore or reform aren't they? So you know all those secondary votes are going to potentially go to Labor and that's that situation where it could flip it on you know on its head completely. Um, interestingly the this change um actually came into force um on June 18th um actually the the day of the bi-election and it was um you know the legislation it it was first brought in last year the government told me but you know ironically came in on the day of the bi-election so it couldn't have been any closer really to to when it come and reform um UK who I spoke to early this week about it I mean they they were they were furious they accused Labour of making a a cynical attempt to to try and influence the this election. Um we I did speak to Labour to get a response and they they they didn't want to provide a comment to that, but you know, I think it I think it's ruffled some feathers.

[00:24:03]It's fair to say and you know, let's see what people are saying when we get closer to the the election taking place.

[00:24:10]I said at the start we've tried to look outside the Westminster bubble, but unfortunately we're going to have to have a bit of a look in because Makerfield has sent Andy Burnham to Westminster. What happens next for Burnham when he goes down there? H well that's the big question isn't it? I mean he's reigned slightly koi about that but you know um numerous sources say that he is expected um to speak with the prime minister in the coming days whether he chooses to hold off until next week or does it over the weekend but um he is expected to tell K star that he should set out a date for his stepping down. Um you know Zakir is insisting he's not going anywhere. So um you know whether he decides after Bernham's victory that okay maybe it is time to set out you know a timeline for my departure or whether he clings on um remains to be seen but um you know Bernham is very popular within the party and he might get the the required number of MPs to launch a leadership bid and some um senior figures in the Labour party have already come out and said they would support Andy Burnham. So >> how about you Declan?

[00:25:31]>> Yeah, it's it it's the big question now, isn't it? I mean I think it's something like 81 MPs, isn't it? Andy Bernie would need or another Labour MP would need to challenge Karma.

[00:25:41]What I've been really interested in is this talk about maybe there might be some kind of orderly transition, you know, because Andy Burnham's, you know, he's won in Makerfield. It was a it was a a strong victory. Um, and I think that gives him probably a lot of momentum to to go in and and probably push to do the plan that he wants to do, which is rumored to be be prime minister. So, you can imagine that him and Kirst will probably have a conversation at some point, won't they, over the next few weeks about what their plans are and how that's going to go. I imagine it's going to be quite a frank conversation. Um, Karma has come out as said that he, you know, he wants to he wants to stay. he doesn't he you know and he will he will carry on. So um I think it really depends whether there is that orderly transition.

[00:26:25]If if there's not if there's not that kind of you know change change of power within Labour party like that you're probably looking at you know leadership contest and that could get quite messy because you're going to have people who are vying to be the Labour leader you know there could be several people it could be Andy Burnham K I think West Street's been rumored to be involved >> they've there was a report about Bernham and street having a meeting um an almost granata style meeting um was touted um which was the um a ledge meeting between Sully Blow and Gordon Brown back in the day to decide who would run in the Labour leadership contest. That's quite interesting.

[00:27:02]>> Yes, isn't it? Yeah. And and that's it.

[00:27:03]So, you know, so there could be any possibility of events, but I I think I think Labour, you know, will probably want to avoid some some in Labour will probably want to avoid a messy long leadership contest where candidates having hustings maybe attacking each other because, you know, Andy Bernham said in said in his speech when he won, didn't he, that um he wants to kind of um you know, go go and bring change about for the country. So, um, I think it's going to be harder to do that when senior Labor figures are all attacking each other publicly. So, how it plays out is going to be really interesting to watch.

[00:27:37]>> I mean, this is the kind of thing that plagued the Tories and not the Labour Party. Um but um you know Labour figures might tell K starama that it might be wise for him to step down because you know the whole point of Andy Bernham standing in Bakerfield was to I guess prove that he can defeat reform if he's uh leader of the Labour party. And what I found and probably what you may have found as well, Declan, when we were speaking to people ahead of the local elections, K star is widely disliked by people across the spectrum. Whether you speak to restore voters or, you know, Labor supporters or Green Party supporters, a lot of people really dislike Kia Star, but they really liked Andy Bernham. And you get the sense that perhaps if Labour had a different leader, someone a bit more um you know likable with more personality, better policies, then Labour could keep hold of its um its voter base and maybe win back some old voters. So, you know, I imagine senior senior figures might tell the prime minister that, you know, the the party did so badly during the local elections. had lost a lot of seats to the Greens and reform. And if if Andy Burnham were to take over and become leader and subsequently um prime minister, then that might see off the threat from both uh reform and the Greens.

[00:29:22]>> There are a lot of people who said that the 2024 election wasn't necessarily a Labor L win. It was a Tory loss. With this election in Mayfield by election, was it a burn and win? or did the reform lose it?

[00:29:34]>> Um, I suppose you could say there was an element of both. I mean, Bernham won by about 54 55%.

[00:29:41]Um, that's a huge majority. You know, it's not by a couple of percentage points. You know, it's he he won by 10,000 votes and he got um nearly twice the majority that the previous MP Josh Simons got. Um and you know as we've um shown in our reporting that Bernham's personal brand is very big. He is personally very likable and popular. Um and with reform I think you know I think they were really trying to pick a candidate who was local to show that you know we're not picking a so-called career politician. And you know that might have swung it for some people. But then you know as we discovered as the um you know the the campaigning went on um people just started really disliking the reform candidate. You know his old social media comments you know those comments really started making a noticeable difference throughout um the election campaign. I mean um he was like laughed at during our hustings um that we organized with all the uh well the main candidates um earlier this month you know whenever he talked about women's rights um some audience members like a audibly laughed >> the former UK said every single women's rights that is already in place will be protected regardless so don't let anyone tell you otherwise women's rights will be protected every single one of them rights, pregnancy, the lot are all going to be protected. Um, >> and on question time as well, you know, there's a woman in the audience who said that she would rather have um a career politician for an MP than a sexist plumber. Um, so I suppose you could say, um, I don't know if you would also agree, but there I think there is an element that yes, reform did lose it massively. had may maybe had they picked a better candidate, had they done some better vetting, they could have narrowed that gap between their party and Burnham. Um, I don't know if a different candidate, a better candidate would have necessarily pushed them over the line.

[00:32:08]Um, because as I said, Bernham is widely popular. you know, he's won the mayoral elections consecutively as well because he's very very popular. And I think maybe it was he was always going to win, but the question was by how much. So in in the end it proved that both his personal popularity and the dislike towards reforms Rob Kenyon um were a factor were both factors in Bernham's victory.

[00:32:41]Yeah, I I definitely think personalities came into it for for sure in turning this result and I think it reform had an interesting problem I think in this in this election in Mayfield because you know they've done so well in the council elections. They picked this local candidate who you know um is is a counselor himself in the area. He's well known. A lot of people just say oh it's Rob you know they they know him on firstname basis a lot of people. Um, but I think like you say, it became clear, didn't it, over the process that he he wasn't this career polished politician.

[00:33:10]And he he said so himself many times, didn't he? You know, I'm not I'm not a polished politician. I don't have all the answers. I don't have all the lines, but I I'll say what I think and who I am, and that's it. And I think what happened was that some people didn't necessarily like that that way of campaigning. And um I think it maybe sewed some doubts in some people's mind.

[00:33:30]Now, the advantage that Labour had was that they had a candidate who who is local. He lives just outside the constituency, doesn't he? But, you know, a lot of people know Andy Burnham in the area. He was previously MP for Lee nearby as well. Was mayor of Greater Manchester. Very well known. But he also is an experienced politician as well.

[00:33:47]So, he knows how to handle the the public debates. He knows how to interact with voters. He knows how to run massive campaigns. They almost had all the right ingredients in the cocktail that came together quite nicely for Labor. I think reform had that problem where they chose the local candidate who was less polished. You know, the other option they would have had was maybe choosing a candidate from outside the area who is maybe a little bit more polished. But would that have cut through with voters in Makerfield? I'm not so sure either.

[00:34:15]So they I think they had a bigger dilemma if you see what I mean about, you know, who they chose.

[00:34:19]>> I think um yeah, I think you're you're right about that. And you know, let's not forget that in the local elections, you know, in Wigan, especially all the council seats did go to reform. Um, so reform were seen as the big threat to Labor. They certainly were in the council election. So, you know, that's why it was a bit of a test for Andy Bernham. You know, if he stood in that seat and defeated reform, perhaps he could replicate that success nationwide.

[00:34:51]Um, it's hard to know if he can because he might be a good mayor, might be personally likable around here, but you know, it's not exactly the same as being liked in Westminster and across the country, across the South and the Southeast, you know, it's very different ball game. There >> it is, isn't it? And like Greater Manchester Andy Burnham's power base really, isn't it? He's got a lot of support. He's well, he's well known. He he in many ways built his profile and elevated his profile here, didn't he?

[00:35:22]Wi-I with with the work that he's done here. And you know, I often say that it's one of the fastest, if not the fastest part of the UK economy at the moment, Greater Manchester, that the changes in the city center especially that have happened, the changes in transport, you know, there's been a lot of positives there. So, but like you say, is that all going to carry out to to other parts of the country? Well, it might not necessarily, and people might might look at that and not be as impressed. So, I think it's a really good point you make actually. Um, can Andy Burnham carry on that momentum that he's got here and transfer it elsewhere?

[00:35:52]There's all this always this talk of um, Manchesterism, isn't it? They call it, which I I've always thought try trying to get my head around it as a as effectively putting the place first rather than the a party or an ideology effectively. Um, so just making sure that changes happen to to improve things no matter what in a way. Um, and coming together to do that. But um, you know, Andy Burnham obviously is a big believer that he's worked here to change things.

[00:36:16]It certainly has changed things. Um, you know, some some for the better and not some people might argue for the worst in other ways. You know, still still many issues we've got here with housing prices, homelessness, you know, those issues have not gone away at all. Um, but you know, exactly like I am said, can that model and can that method be be successful elsewhere? I think that's what we're probably going to try and find out and burn will have to try and prove really, won't he? Yeah.

[00:36:41]>> Well, we've had local elections, we've had bi-elections, we've got a mayoral elections, potentially a leadership contest to quote those immortal words.

[00:36:50]Oh god, not another one. So, thank you to Iram and to Declan and thank you for watching. If you want to stay up to date on the latest news from Makerfield and beyond, you can catch it all on the Manchester Evening News website. As always, don't forget to subscribe and comment. Let us know what you think.

[00:37:07]Thank you and see you next time.