GUNNERS SHOT CLIPS : USA NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND INDIA'S INDEPENDENT STREAK / LT GEN RAJ SHUKLA

[00:00:00]Right. So, just uh four to five points to add to what um Hari has said.

[00:00:06]Firstly, the Americans just have to understand uh or appreciate the independent streak in India's foreign policy.

[00:00:16]We just cannot be Pakistan or any other country which is, you know, subservious, which is which forms on the president like Asim Munir does or Shahbaz Sharif does. It is just not on India's DNA.

[00:00:33]And we have weathered far greater challenges. I mean, '71, we stood up to the bullying of Nixon and Kissinger seventh fleet, and came out with flying colors.

[00:00:44]Uh I quite marvel at the way which we negotiated the NPT.

[00:00:50]We got to nuclear weapon status in some in a very smart manner. Look at the trouble that Iran is going through today.

[00:00:57]And I think it was a turning point in our in our statecraft and our strategic voice.

[00:01:03]And that was against grim American challenges.

[00:01:07]Look how we smartly negotiated the Indo-US civil nuclear deal.

[00:01:12]So, if Trump on his MAGA crowd have any sense of history, they will realize that India can be a very useful friend. India is willing to be a useful friend.

[00:01:22]America is a strong nation. It is a superpower.

[00:01:25]But it has to be on slightly even terms.

[00:01:29]All this bullying and expectant of subserviousness will just not work.

[00:01:35]While there will be consequences for India, there will also be consequences for the United States.

[00:01:40]Secondly, I would like to draw a distinction between Pax Americana and this MAGA hubris.

[00:01:47]So, Pax Americana, as I understand, it is also about American domination, but it is far wiser. It is more on a even keel. It is about trusting your allies and partners, or whatever you call them.

[00:02:02]This MAGA hubris, we have tried everything. So, we have tried laughing it off, we have tried ignoring it.

[00:02:10]We have tried even, uh, you know, playing ball here and there.

[00:02:15]And it just hasn't worked.

[00:02:17]I think, uh, the time has come now to stand up and to call out this MAGA hubris.

[00:02:23]And look at the kind of rhetoric which has been coming out from America.

[00:02:28]Which is this, you know, common symbolism of bullying, and this just has to be stood up to.

[00:02:34]Uh, this whole civilization will die business.

[00:02:38]This very juvenile blow them up rhetoric from a president of the United States.

[00:02:43]I mean, how do you deal with this kind of stuff? Iris Dina, as I've said, I think even on your show, I have no doubt.

[00:02:49]These MAGA guys sitting in a room said they talk a lot lot about India, talks a lot about uh, being a net security provider. Here we go.

[00:02:59]And, uh, look at us. I think that was a a silent submarine. We didn't even have the MDA to be one.

[00:03:07]And now look at these three ships, three successive ships. You know they are Indians on board.

[00:03:13]And you killed three sailors, and these uh, Marco Rubio readout was particularly insensitive.

[00:03:22]Not even, uh, condolence for the three sailors.

[00:03:26]I mean, so how do you put up with this kind of hubris? And therefore, I think we have tried everything. We understand America as a superpower. It is a strong country.

[00:03:37]If there is something that we can still do to make sense, I have no quarrel.

[00:03:41]But I do think this time has come when we have to stand up to this MAGA hubris, which is very distinct from the wider American fraternities Pax Americana.

[00:03:51]There are a lot of Americans you can do business with but not this this this MAGA crowd.

[00:03:57]And the third is I mean, there are limits. MAGA should itself realize there are limits to its power. Epic Fury has proved it.

[00:04:05]This deal, if I may just come comment briefly, is what?

[00:04:09]You have just restored the status quo ante of 27 February 26.

[00:04:16]The strait was open then. You are now saying the strait will be open. You say there'll be no tolls.

[00:04:22]Uh the foreign minister of Iran very clearly has said that there'll be some fees.

[00:04:27]Uh and look at I mean, I quite marvel at Iran despite being on the ropes, how it has fought back. What is this deal doing today?

[00:04:37]Iran is saying that, you know, you are very keen to get this nuclear rollback.

[00:04:42]All right, let's get a ceasefire, open the strait, let get oil flows going.

[00:04:49]And now we will peg the nuclear rollback to the manner in which you integrate us with the global economy.

[00:04:57]So, unfreezing of assets, primary sanctions, secondary sanctions. If you don't integrate us, the nuclear rollback is not done.

[00:05:05]Which means, Mr. Trump, you'll have to walk off with a deal which is worse than Obama.

[00:05:10]That could be your death knell in domestic politics. And if you still don't understand, we can always reopen the strait.

[00:05:19]So, these are the limits of American military power. And if you actually ask me, this is some kind of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam redux.

[00:05:29]So, MAGA is not working. It is not working globally. It's not working domestically.

[00:05:35]Uh President Trump and his advisers may continue to fool themselves, but the world is beginning to stand up.

[00:05:43]And therefore, the penultimate point that I have is that, you know, strength comes more from autonomy than alignment.

[00:05:52]So, what we really have to do over the next 10 to 15 years is build up our capacities.

[00:05:57]Look, there have been IRS dinner, even before that, there have been people who have been arguing for capacities in the maritime domain.

[00:06:07]A2AD MDA, look at our investments. If the Chinese are building 200 other Ship building is 200 times that of the United States. We have to do far more. Just one or two ships will not do anything.

[00:06:24]So, we really have to invest in our maritime promise. Look at choke point control.

[00:06:29]Uh we have to project power because if you don't project power, these threats will come to your doorstep. And also capacity building in a larger sense. If you go to Indian Twitter, there is a huge debate which has been broken out which has broken out about our capacities on Twitter.

[00:06:46]And there are two camps. One says that we have done nothing at all. That says, yeah, we are doing, but we are far behind. Now, until in these areas we have to invest AI, energy security, military promise because this is the only thing that the MAGA camp understands. Some choke points, some leverages, military promise.

[00:07:09]And in that sense we have to do hide and bite for the nice next 5 to 10 years and stand up for the MAGA camp to acknowledge our presence.

[00:07:19]May I also say that, you know, we have options.

[00:07:23]While I will once again say that the Americans are hugely important, they have power, they have money, they have technology.

[00:07:30]But if we are left with no option, we also have options.

[00:07:34]There are other people who are pretty much on the edge, not happy with the United States.

[00:07:39]Japan, South Korea, Europe, and finally, even RIC may not be a bad option if you have to be so in sense so in sensitively. And now, as I think Harry pointed out, this is not the India of your even when we were not so strong, we stood up. '71 civil nuclear deal, uh the whole nuclear weaponization.

[00:08:04]Today, we are the fourth largest economy.

[00:08:07]We are what Did we actually grow at 7.9?

[00:08:11]I mean, those figures are really heartening.

[00:08:14]Uh last year, we are the third in AI. We are third uh ranked in comprehensive national pass.

[00:08:23]So, this is a very different India.

[00:08:26]And let's not MAGA hubris get consumed uh you know, by thinking that countries cannot stand up to America.

[00:08:38]Make America great again is not about drowning America.

[00:08:41]These guys will drown America.

[00:08:44]Uh so, really they seem to lack intellect and a larger sense of statesmanship. And Iran has taught them a lesson.

[00:08:51]Uh you know, I would just like to end this They must look at their strategy again.

[00:08:56]It is so important. Just as India must look at our strategy with cunning.

[00:09:02]I'm not making an argument of, you know, taking on the Americans stupidly. I'm saying cunning. Dekho, kya karna inke sath agar bewakoof banana hai to inko bewakoof banao. Par inko we have we have to stand up to it. And the Americans have to look at their strategies.

[00:09:16]There's a lovely military adage which says, "Strategy without tactics is the slowest road to route to victory." So, if your tactics is all right, but your strategy is good, you will get there even if you get there slowly.

[00:09:32]But tactics without strategy is merely the noise before defeat defeat.

[00:09:38]The mother camp is good at tactics, that hex and stuff, you know, war show.

[00:09:43]But, hugely embarrassing in strategy.

[00:09:46]And therefore, I think Iran was just 40 days of noise before defeat.

[00:09:51]For the Americans.

[00:09:53]So, at least now when they look at the larger world view at countries like India, up near strategy go to Danish Monday to search here.

[00:10:01]This blow them up rhetoric this doesn't work in the real world. So, that is some unsolicited advice to the Americans.

[00:10:09]And some thoughts for our own establishment to tomorrow.