This video captures First Minister's Questions (FMQs) featuring Scottish First Minister John Swinney, where he responds to questions from MSPs on various government policies including violence against women and girls prevention, A9 dualling infrastructure costs, rural connectivity, Islamic burial grounds, autism support services, social housing allocation, maternity service failures, hyperscale data center energy demands, and the economic impact of Brexit on Scotland. The session demonstrates the Scottish Parliament's role in holding the government accountable through structured questioning on key policy areas.
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LIVE | First Minister’s Questions with John Swinney
Added:measures to prevent and eradicate violence against women and girls. In light of Cosla's recent white paper, strengthening local delivery to prevent and eradicate violence against women and girls.
>> Cabinet Secretary Maree McAllan.
>> Presiding officer, eradicating violence against women and girls fundamentally requires men to change their behavior.
However, our education system can play an important part in that. Our equally safe delivery plan, for example, sets out a number of actions that we're taking. Education actions include supporting equally safe at school, which is a whole school approach developed by Rape Crisis Scotland and Zero Tolerance, publishing schools guidance with the gender-based violence in schools working group, and funding the digital discourse initiative. But beyond equally safe, actions like the government's confirmation that we will bring forward legislation to end the use of mobile phones in the learning environment, I believe these can make a difference by separating young people from what is often misogynistic content online.
>> Lorna Hood.
>> I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that answer. In February this year, the Scottish Government introduced new relationships, sexual health, and parenthood guidance, which for the first time includes the importance of teaching consent. What will the Cabinet Secretary do to ensure every school is rolling out this guidance to reflect the issues young people, particularly young girls, are sharing about their experiences in school?
>> Cabinet Secretary.
>> I thank um Ms. Hood for for raising this question and that particular issue of of relationships and sexual health and parenthood education, which is an integral part of the health and well-being area of the school curriculum in Scotland. The RSHP education it focuses on equipping children young people with the knowledge, skills, and values to make informed and positive choices about forming relationships. One vitally important part of that, of course, is consent, which Ms. Hood is absolutely right to mention. And uh as Education Secretary, I'll continue to work with school leaders and local authorities across Scotland to make sure that that's being uh fulsomely taught.
>> Question three has not been lodged.
Question four, Daniel Johnson.
>> Uh to ask the Scottish Government what its current estimates are for the cost and time scale required to complete the remaining sections of the A9 dualling program that are still uh to be upgraded.
>> Minister Tom Arthur.
>> The Scottish Government remains committed to dualling the A9 between Perth and Inverness by 2035.
The program is estimated to cost 3.97 billion pounds at April 2025 prices.
When adjusted for inflation, this is broadly similar to the 3.7 billion pounds at April 2023 prices reported in December 2023 and below the original estimate of 3 billion pounds at 2008 prices.
The 2026 delivery plan will see the proportion of dual carriageway between Perth and Inverness increase to 50% by the end of 2030, 67% by the end of 2032, 91% by the end of 2034, and 100% by the end of 2035.
>> Daniel Johnson.
>> Uh the latest tenders are clearly welcome giving some clarity about completion of the A9, albeit some 28 years after it was originally promised.
But I think the costs do require some examination. On a per kilometer basis, the latest sections will come in at around 20 million pounds per kilometer.
That compares to 6.4 million pounds per kilometer adjusted for inflation for the Kincraig to Dalraddy section. And on an international basis, the Faroese Government built tunnels for 10 million pounds per kilometer. That's new roads under the sea. So, does the Minister agree with me that it's vitally important that we have cost-effective delivery of infrastructure for economic growth? And what lessons is the Scottish Government seeking to learn from international best practice such as the Fair Isle example.
>> Minister.
>> The Scottish Government is of course always open to learning from best practice internationally. But the member is absolutely right to highlight the importance of cost-effectiveness. This also has to be balanced with ensuring that the project can be delivered in a way that is cognizant of market capacity and ensures the minimum amount of disruption for road users as well. And creating that balance is what is reflected in the process that the Scottish Government has undertaken.
>> Supplementary, Willie Rennie.
>> There is some concern that the contracts won't deliver significant community benefit and supply chain benefits, too.
So, can the Minister set out what work has been done and what lessons have been learned from the likes of the Lower Thames Crossing where they've got good examples of just that.
>> Minister.
>> Well, as as I hope the member would recognize the framework under which procurement is governed within this country is one which was certainly very much ahead of its time and it still stands the test of time on issues such as community benefit and ensuring a significant investment of public money delivers lasting benefits beyond the infrastructure that is of course a central focus and concern. We of course now have procurement of the framework underway that was launched by the cabinet secretary earlier this month and that of course will set out the broad provisions as we move towards the completion of the A9 over the next 9 years.
>> Question five, David Barrie.
>> To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what the next steps are towards delivering a direct ferry service between Rosyth and mainland Europe.
>> Minister Tom Arthur.
>> Whilst the Scottish Government is supportive of direct ferry services to Europe, the decision to introduce an international ferry service including the timing is a consideration for the commercial ferry operator and relevant port authorities. The Scottish Government has received an application for funding through the waterborne freight grant the waterborne freight grant scheme, I beg your pardon, which is currently being assessed. The Scottish Government also amended the minimum requirements for the location of a border control post through the official controls location of border control post Scotland regulations 2026.
This amendment provides flexibility for border control post requirements within green freeport zones.
>> David Ballett.
I thank the Minister for his response.
In order for Forth Ports and DFDS to progress this route, they require clarity on the waterborne freight scheme.
And they require clarity on the 3 million pound manifesto commitment.
Funding from the UK Government has been strictly ring-fenced. Can the Minister confirm timescales for each funding stream?
And will the Scottish Government constructively work with Forth Ports to ensure funding is not unduly restricted?
Minister.
>> Well, I would I want to um assure the member that we greatly value the interest shown from business in the Government's commitment to support the funding of ferry services from Scotland to Europe. And I think this is particularly timely as we approach the 10th anniversary of the Brexit referendum which has led to such significant economic harm for Scotland and indeed the wider UK. And it is my hope that by strengthening our connectivity with European neighbors, we will be able to renew our relationships again. In terms of the question posed, I would want to confirm to the member that work is continuing to assess the various options available to deliver this funding. And we will work constructively with all interested parties regarding the introduction of an international ferry service.
>> Thank you. Question six is not lodged.
Question seven, Jenny Marra.
>> Thank you, Presiding Officer, to ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the timeline for the delivery of a medium-term solution to the A83 Rest and Be Thankful.
>> Minister Tom Arthur.
>> The Scottish Government is delivering a range of measures in the short, medium, and long-term to reduce the risk of impact of landslides on the A83 at the Rest and Be Thankful.
Following the publication of draft orders, Transport Scotland continues to progress the proposed medium-term solution through the statutory authorization process.
Construction of the medium-term solution can only commence if approved under the relevant statutory authorization process, and thereafter and thereafter a timetable for construction can be determined.
>> Jenny Minto.
>> I thank the Minister for his response.
As the Minister may be aware, I organized a series of round tables in September with local businesses, the community, and national businesses.
Concerns were raised about the use of the old military road for the duration of the construction period of the long-term solution, and believe it would also be hugely detrimental to the economy of Argyll and Bute, and also the communities.
The Minister will appreciate these concerns given his portfolio. So, I hope he will support me in asking that the Cabinet Secretary meets with the Rest and Be Thankful campaign group to discuss their proposals and understand their reasoning behind them for the medium-term option.
>> Minister.
Well, can I thank Jenny Minto for her a question and and recognize the amount of work that she has undertaken to represent the interests of her constituents on the Rest and Be Thankful. And I thank her for raising awareness of these specific concerns. I am aware that the Cabinet Secretary has received correspondence from the campaign group, which outlines their views on a permanent solution to the landslide challenges at the Rest and Be Thankful.
I would like to reassure the member and Parliament that the Government will carefully consider this correspondence and is committed to building on the positive engagement undertaken to date with the campaign group through the A83 task force.
>> Supplementary, >> Jackie >> I listened carefully to the Minister's response and whilst I join in welcoming the temporary lifting of traffic lights, they are due to return in September and that will cause more disruption for businesses and residents. The Rest and Be Thankful campaign group have suggested, as the Minister has acknowledged, an alternative solution that would be quicker and would be cheaper. So, will the Scottish Government prioritize this alternative route for investment and can the Minister outline what funding is actually in place for the Rest and Be Thankful over the lifetime of this Parliament?
>> Minister.
>> Well, I would want to assure the member of the Government's commitment to this. As you fully appreciate, ultimately budgets are determined through a parliamentary process. But, as with our commitments on the A9 dualling, we recognize the significant disruption that is caused when there are landslides on the A83, which is why, like with the A9, we have made that commitment and I would hope that Parliament would back it through the budgetary process to ensure that that capital investment can be delivered. We are, of course, committed to continued engagement and on the specific points regarding alternative approaches, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary to update the member in writing.
>> Question eight, Calum Kerr.
>> Thank you for joining, officer, to ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to enhance rural connectivity and transport in the Scottish Borders.
>> Minister Tom Arthur.
>> The Scottish Government recognizes the importance of connectivity to the Scottish Borders. We continue to invest in both digital connectivity and local and regional transport in partnership with councils and transport authorities.
This includes support through relevant grants for bus services and active travel. Rural connectivity was transformed with the opening of the Borders Railway and we continue to support the Scottish Borders Council in their work to consider the benefits and challenges of extending Borders Railway, funded by up to 5 million pounds each from both the Scottish and UK governments through the Borderlands deal.
>> I thank the Minister for that answer.
This is turning into the Tom Arthur show presiding officer today.
So I wholeheartedly embrace his comments on the transformative power of the Borders railway and I'm pleased to hear the ongoing commitment to that from the Scottish government. Alongside this though, bus services remain critical for many but with the cheapest online single costing £6.80 to go just from Peebles to Edinburgh for example, does the Minister recognize the pressing need for a price cap in rural areas such as the Borders as these costs are currently unaffordable for many?
>> Minister.
>> Well, can I thank the member for his further question and and certainly recognize the the points he raises with regards to the importance of connectivity and in particular around bus travel and the need for affordable rural bus fares across the country which is important and that is why it is reflected in our commitment to extend the £2 fare cap pilot currently in operation in the High Trans and ZetTrans areas across the whole of Scotland.
>> Supplementary, Katy Clarkman.
>> I thank the member for the initial question and the response from the Minister and particularly pleased to hear about the transformation of the rail in the Scottish Borders. I would like to ask if the Scottish government will consider the wider implications of rural connectivity across south of Scotland giving particular attention to rail including within my constituency of Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley. While trains to Ayr and Kilmarnock are good and frequent, the services south of Ayr through Maybole and Girvan and south of Kilmarnock through Auchinleck and New Cumnock are particularly limited.
>> Minister, Tom Arthur.
>> Well, can I can I thank Katy Clarkman for her question and we want to assure the government's commitment to ensuring all parts of Scotland are fully supported with regards to their connectivity, recognizing the vital importance of effective sustainable connectivity in regards to economic growth and development. And that is certainly something I'm deeply committed to through my ongoing engagement with Surface Scotland Enterprise. With regards to the specific points raised in the question, ScotRail reviews its services regularly to ensure its services do meet passenger demand and adjust its services wherever possible.
And we are committed to improving services for passengers in Scotland, which is reflected in our sustained investment. But I recognize the specific points the member raises and I will ask officials to pass that on to the cabinet secretary.
>> Question nine, David Linden.
To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the adequacy of provision for Islamic cemeteries and burial grounds in Scotland, including the support or guidance that it provides to local authorities in meeting the needs of Muslim communities.
Minister Maree Todd.
>> The Scottish Government recognizes the importance of ensuring that burial provision reflects the diverse religious and cultural needs of all communities.
Under the Burial and Cremation Scotland Act 2016, local authorities are responsible for ensuring that burial provision, including through joint arrangements with other local authorities where appropriate.
The Burial Management Scotland Regulations 2025 enable burial authorities to designate parts of burial grounds for particular faith or belief groups.
Decisions on the provision and designation of burial grounds rest with individual burial authorities, reflecting local needs. And burial authorities are encouraged to engage with all faith communities to understand demand. Local authorities, which manage the majority of burial grounds in Scotland, must also comply with the Equality Act 2010, including the public sector equality duty, requiring them to have regard to religious needs when delivering services, including bereavement services.
>> David Linden.
>> I'm very grateful to the Minister for that answer and with our welcome and growing Islamic population in Glasgow and indeed in neighboring authorities, there are two concerns that have been put to me. One is that we are running out of a lack of spaces for that and that's certainly been the case in whole head road for many years in my own constituency. And the second issue is that peaceful legislation that Minister refers to makes provision for a kind of two-tiered system in terms of charging.
Now, for many Islamic communities where someone might have settled in Glasgow in the 1960s and 1970s, they've moved out of a neighbor into a neighboring authority and they're being charged exorbitant amounts. So, would the Minister be willing to give consideration to a cross-government approach with local authorities because the piece-by-piece bit that we see with the 32 local authorities currently isn't working.
>> Minister.
>> Through the requirement of the 2016 Act is that every local authority has to provide burial space, but the Act doesn't address burial space for any specific faith. Each local authority has to consider its obligations under 2016 Act alongside equality legislation and has to consider the potential indirect discrimination in relation to provision of burial space for its residents. The burial fees that are set by each burial authority and the Scottish you know, the Scottish government has no role in setting or regulating those prices. Now, I think the issue that Mr. Linden describes has arisen because people in his area have been charged extra to bury folk in Glasgow and many local authorities charge a lower fee for residents partly to recognize that indirect contributions to the provision and upkeep of burial grounds throughout the council tax system. I think that Mr. Linden though has identified a challenging area for his constituents and I've asked officials to engage with Solace on this issue to get a better understanding of the provision of burial space for different faiths by local authorities.
>> Supplementary, Kate Forbes.
>> Um hi. Um I'd like to thank David Linden for both those questions. Um in Edinburgh, I know the these there's only 80 spaces left at the Ratho dedicated burial sites for members of the Islamic faith, which is a real and urgent concern. Uh and members of the Muslim community have also raised the issues around um uh payment funeral support payment rises. Um I'd like to ask at one of the other issues that's also being raised is the fact that there's been a change to how long you can be buried for. And in the Islamic faith, you need to be buried in perpetuity, not for a set length of time. So, I'd like to ask the government what assessment they've made of whether Muslim communities, mosques, funeral committees, counselors, and MSPs were adequately informed before the commencement of sections 14 to 16 of or something this is about, I can't remember.
I don't I don't know I don't know how to get that back.
Sorry, everyone. Don't know what we're doing in this situation.
>> You take that one.
>> Uh so so I suspect the the member is going to ask me about a specific um section of the act, which I will probably refer to officials, and we can pick this up offline in order to ensure that she gets a good answer to the question that she rightly raises. I have also heard concerns from constituents about the length of burial and the changes that have come in. So, I'm more than happy to pick those issues up and work offline on them.
>> Foysol Choudhury.
>> Muslim communities have raised concern with me about the lack of burial plots across the Lothians. The number of available plots is low, and there is an urgent need for more permanent provisions in the area.
Does the cabinet secretary have plans to meet with the Muslim community to discuss the provision for Islamic cemeteries and burial grounds in Scotland, and also review the support or guidance that it provides to lack local authorities in meeting the needs of Muslim communities.
>> Minister.
>> So, as I as I said in my earlier answer, I've asked officials to engage with SOLACE on this issue to get a better understanding of the provision of burial space for different faiths by local authorities. The onus is on local authorities to work with their communities, and it is perfectly possible within the legislation for part of a burial ground to be designated for a specific faith. And in those local authorities who have communities represented in them who require specific burial requirements, absolutely should be working with those communities in order to ensure that their needs are met. The Scottish government is absolutely committed and recognizes the importance of ensuring that burial provision reflects the diverse religious and cultural needs of all communities, and be more than happy to update the members on the work that is ongoing or any um outcome from that engagement between my officials and SOLACE.
>> Question 10, Adam Harley.
To ask the Scottish government what action it is taking to improve access to after-school care and holiday clubs for children with autism.
Cabinet Secretary Maree McAllan.
>> Presiding Officer, children with additional support needs, including autism, mustn't face barriers in accessing child care and holiday clubs.
Inclusion is absolutely at the heart of our approach, and it's why we're testing both inclusive and specialist models, such as with partners like The Yard in Dundee, which is a support center and adventure play space for children with disabilities and additional needs.
Learning from these projects is informing our work to expand child care to ensure that future provision is more accessible, more inclusive, and responsive to the needs of children and their families.
>> Adam Harley.
>> I thank her for that reply. My constituent, Nathan, is 5 years old and has autism.
Although he's able to attend school, there is no after-school care to accommodate his needs and very limited holiday care. That means Nathan misses out on activities and his parents struggle to balance work with child care.
Many families in Strathkelvin and Bearsden and across Scotland find themselves in exactly the same position.
So, can I ask the Minister will she work with local authorities to ensure that children like Nathan don't continue to be excluded?
>> Cabinet Secretary.
>> Presiding Officer, I thank Adam Harris for his follow-up question and I would say to him and to Nathan and to Nathan's family that Nathan ought not to be missing out on that important both learning opportunities and child care. So, I referred to the early adopter communities that we've been working with in my original answer. This work is entirely about testing how child care and early learning can be rolled out for children with specific needs, whether that is neurodiversity or whether it is a whole range of other needs that that children may present with. We are doing that work now. We are taking the learning from it and I'll work with him and with others as we embed that in the expansion of child care that the government's undertaking.
>> Supplementary, Steven Bonar.
>> Thank you, Presiding Officer, and can I thank Mr. Halley for raising this very important matter. Parents in Uddington and Bellshill have told me that while support may be available during the school day, suitable after-school and holiday provision for autistic children remains extremely limited. What action has the Scottish Government taken to ensure that families can access affordable specialist support through the year, including school holidays across Lanarkshire?
>> Cabinet Secretary.
>> Um I thank Steven Bonar for that question. In response, I would say there's two parts. The first is to say that we are already funding the provision of some of that specialist provision throughout Scotland. I mentioned the Yard in Dundee in my initial answer. I would also mention Support Health and Integration in in Perth and Kinross, who are a fantastic service providing um play and um and support for children with varying needs.
And I have myself been able to, for example, visit uh Hillsland Early Learning Centre where there was a beautiful uh sensory room where children could uh go to to have their needs met there. But, the second part of my answer is that it has to improve, and that's exactly why the work we're funding now will inform the expansion of childcare >> Katie Clark.
>> As the Cabinet Secretary says, there are clearly some excellent examples of after-school and holiday clubs for children with autism, but it's also clear that the provision of the support is patchy and very much depends on where you live. And indeed, all of us as MSPs are contacted by constituents who require additional support for children with autism.
Councils clearly have a key role to play, and the Cabinet Secretary has already referred to that. There needs to be a specialized service that caters for the support for sensory needs and social development that children with autism need. Realistically, within the budgets and the funding that the Cabinet Secretary has available to her, and indeed are available to councils who we all know are under significant budgetary pressure, to what extent is it going to be possible to roll out these kinds of services to all school schools and to all children across Scotland?
>> Cabinet Secretary.
>> Just to pick up on on the last point of of Katie Clark's question there, to what extent is it possible? It It has to be possible cuz we have to get it right for every child. And that's what the government, working with MSPs, will be seeking to do. Um Katie Clark is quite right to mention that local authorities have obligations. Every child in Scotland should receive good-quality care that meets their needs and respects their rights. And the government expects local authorities and childcare providers to take steps to ensure that the services they offer are accessible to all and that all children whether with disabilities and or additional support needs have access to uh school age child care. Um of course there are also provisions under the equality law that provide for that as well. But as my earlier answers have indicated, we understand that there is work to be done. We are funding uh pilots in our early adopter communities just now and that will inform the work we take forward.
>> Katie Hagmann I thank the member for raising this question and to the cabinet secretary, I'm really heartened to hear of those pilots including the Yard and the Adventure Play Centre that has been referenced. I'd like to ask that the Scottish Government when considering the improved access for children with autism to after school care and holiday clubs, that weight is given at every step to the opportunities that outdoor and nature-based learning brings.
>> Ministerial Secretary >> Um presiding officer, I thank Katie Hagmann for that question. Um very personally, I'm a massive advocate for um children and young people and indeed all of us spending time in the outdoors and in nature. I think it's it very renewing for us all. Um I've mentioned about about early adopter communities so far. I would also point to the 4 and 1/2 million pounds access to child care fund that we've been providing since 2020. This is supporting families on low income specifically uh with the cost of child care and allowing us to again better understand how to um expand child care. But projects that are funded through this fund um they are about flexible delivery, they're about specialist services for children, they're about whole family support, but there is also a focus in that on outdoor provision um as well as increasing access to to the families who are most likely to be living in poverty. Um and again I would I would just give Katie Hagmann an assurance that as education secretary, I'll be a proponent of outdoor education.
>> Willie Rennie The cabinet secretary knows this is going to be difficult because we know that in schools with four in 10 with an additional support needs they're already struggling to cope with the massive demand that teachers face with the lack of backup support with a educational psychologist and speech and language therapist and all the range of specialists that you need for the support. So, are we drawing on the lessons from schools to make sure that the rollout of the after school care and of the early years provision is taking that into account because so far I don't have an awful lot of confidence that this is going to work because we're not getting it right in schools.
>> Cabinet secretary.
>> I think Mr. Rennie should take confidence on the rollout for example of the 1,140 hours of funded early learning and child care that the government has already overseen successful delivery of.
I think his point about the uh uh propensity for additional support needs in our classroom. He mentioned the statistic four in I think it's important to remember that there is a variety of needs within those statistics from uh lifelong medical conditions through transient but difficult things that a child may go through in their life through to for example having um a English language needs. Um so, there's a broad range of of of children's needs within that. I was at St. Sophia's Sophia's uh primary school in Galston this morning which was a a fantastic visit and one of the things that I was exploring with the teachers there this morning was exactly that question of managing the variety of needs both in the classroom and in early learning settings and I can assure Mr. Rennie that it will be at the forefront of my mind as we take this forward.
>> I thank the cabinet secretary and one of the reasons why we finished slightly earlier for general questions is the fact that three out of 10 people did not actually lodge uh questions. I would hope that members would pay more attention to time scales and not let the kind indeed lodge general questions not only to be able to ask questions themselves, but to have colleagues to come in with supplementaries. Before we move to First Minister's Questions, um I would like to invite members to join me in welcoming to the gallery His Excellency Hamish Cooper, High Commissioner of New Zealand.
watch.
And we'll just wait around 20 seconds and then we'll allow Mr. Offord to ask his first question of the day.
The next item of business is First Minister's Questions for party leaders.
Uh question one, Malcolm Offord.
>> Thank you, Presiding Officer. And may I begin by congratulating Steve Clarke and the Scotland men's team on a great victory against Haiti and wish them all the best against Morocco.
Uh last week I asked the First Minister about a major problem with social housing in Scotland.
A loophole where thousands of new arrivals from outside Scotland are able to present as homeless and must be found temporary accommodation by councils who are then forced to place them ahead of local Scots already on the waiting list for permanent accommodation.
In his answer last week, uh the First Minister did not seem to recognize there was any loophole at all.
But the fact remains there's been a surge in demand for temporary accommodation in Scotland, and in Glasgow alone, 64% of those in temporary accommodation came to the UK as asylum seekers.
Surely the First Minister must agree that it's unfair for local Scots on the long waiting list for permanent accommodation to be shunted to the back of the queue in order to give temporary accommodation instead to new arrivals.
Does the First Minister not recognize this fundamentally a matter of fairness and that Scottish hospitality has been abused by queue jumping?
First Minister.
>> I I I think what Malcolm Offord does with that question is use language which I think spreads division in our society and has to be called out for what it is and it's exactly what I said last week with the language that Mr. Offord used last week. Um there is the application of our approach to allocation of housing is based on equality for all individuals and nobody is put to the back of the queue to use the language that Mr. Offord has used.
What we do is we apply the principle that people who are eligible for housing in Scotland should be treated as eligible for housing in Scotland and we apply houses accordingly on that basis.
>> Malcolm Offord.
So the First Minister once again doesn't answer the question. My question was entirely measured and factual and I have not had a response.
Perhaps you might write to me with a response.
Moving from Glasgow to Dundee, uh the First Minister will be aware of the distressing incident last year involving a 12-year-old local girl who was arrested and widely vilified for wielding an axe and a knife to fend off a Bulgarian migrant and his sister.
The legal process triggered by this distressing incident has now concluded and the 12-year-old girl has been exonerated by the Sheriff.
The Bulgarian migrant has been found guilty of assaulting the child and of behaving in a threatening and abusive manner including making sexual remarks to her and three other local girls. Now at the time Police Scotland hit out at misinformation online, which turned out to be true. And when Elon Musk posted the question, "What kind of government arrests little girls who try to defend themselves?"
the First Minister also piled in, accusing him of spreading misinformation.
The mother of this child, quite rightly, has demanded an apology from the police and from the First Minister for her daughter being branded as a liar, right-wing, and a racist. So my question is, now this case has concluded, will the First Minister take this opportunity to issue such an apology?
First Minister.
>> Presiding Officer, the approach that I take on all of these matters is to follow carefully the advice that is offered to me and the and the quality information that can be available to me.
And at the time of this particular incident, the information available to me, provided through Police Scotland, led me to the conclusion that I set out.
And also, I'm certainly going to make no apology for taking on Elon Musk, who I don't think is an actor in good faith on these questions, if I may say so.
Mr. Mr. Offord is absolutely right that the legal process in this case is concluded. And the legal process indicates, exactly as Mr. Offord has indicated, so there is no reason for me to sustain the points that were put to me at the time in the statements by Police Scotland. So I of course apologize to the young woman and her family concerned because we should all be dealing with the situation as the information presents it. But I'd simply caution Mr. Offord on the tack that he's taking here because I've seen too many cases where malevolent right-wing actors have piled in on particular issues to sow division in our society to have been proved to be completely incorrect. And there was a state a case in Sterling where the Police Scotland had to intervene very directly to counter the type of rhetoric that Elon Musk was circulating on in this particular case.
And on that occasion, was being circulated by Tommy Robinson.
So, I suppose the lesson that we should all draw from all of this is that we should all be very, very careful about what we say because if we're not, we're going to fall into the trap of the right-wing malevolent individuals who are determined to sow division in our society. And I want to have none of that in Scotland.
>> Malcolm Offord.
Thank you, presiding officer. I think there is another lesson to be learned from this because this unfortunate case in Dundee brings into sharp focus the reality that white working-class girls across the UK have not been believed by the authorities when reporting sexual abuse.
And this was illustrated by the remarks made at the time by Humza Yousaf, a former First Minister and a sitting MSP, who watched the video and immediately passed judgment that this young person has had a significant amount of trauma in her life and I can guarantee that without knowing fully her circumstances.
So, judgment made without even meeting her.
Judgment made just by looking at her.
So, in light of this sorry saga, can I press the First Minister on the status of the grooming gangs inquiry in Scotland that the SNP promised shortly before the election? When exactly will it begin and when will its terms of reference be released?
First Minister.
There's also on the point the first point that Mr. Offord makes in relation to the reporting of sexual crimes and the actions taken to address sexual crimes in our society um on uh, get women and girls in our society, because that's the the general way I'm going to address that question. I think from the statistics that are regularly reported, and from even the discussions that we had yesterday about the record of Dorothy Bain as the Lord Advocate, Scotland has a formidable record of taking seriously the complaints of women and girls about sexual abuse and sexual violence. And I want to make it clear to Parliament that that will remain the case throughout, uh, the term of this government, because it is absolutely vital that where women and girls uh, have experiences of sexual violence and sexual assault, that they have the confidence to report them. And, uh, it's clear from the conduct and the leadership of the former Lord Advocate, and I'm certain about that, about the Lord Advocate designate, uh, who will be sworn in at the Court of Session tomorrow, that the same approach will be taken in relation to the prosecution of such claims. And indeed, one of the issues we're wrestling with in our prison population is the fact that very substantial numbers of individuals are now serving long prison sentences because of the per- the the the the perpetrating of sexual crimes of this nature. In relation to the grooming gangs inquiry, the government has established the leadership of the grooming gangs inquiry, and, uh, the work is underway to ensure the terms of reference are finalized, and the inquiry can start its work at the first available opportunity.
>> Anas Sarwar.
>> Uh, thank you, Presiding Officer. Seven months after committing to a national review into maternity services, uh, finally Professor Christine McCourt has been appointed as chair.
Uh, while this is welcome, more urgency is needed. Earlier this month, Health Improvement Scotland published their report into the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital. It found expectant mothers had faced delays of up to 190 hours to be induced, and the consequences were serious.
Delays increased the risk of sepsis, led to more complicated births, and in some cases resulted in women giving birth in areas not equipped to deal with complications or provide appropriate pain relief. Between 2019 and 2025, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde alone recorded 736 serious adverse events in maternity and neonatal services. And tragically, 406 involved a death. So, can I ask the First Minister what immediate steps is this government taking to keep women and babies safe?
>> First Minister.
>> Uh so, so, I acknowledge the importance of the point that Mr. Sarwar raises with me. And let me say that um although he's correct about the timescale for the establishment of the independent review into maternity services, the inspection in relation to um the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital is part of the wider Healthcare Improvement Scotland review of maternity services in multiple locations around Scotland, which was commissioned by the former Health Secretary, and is now being taken forward. In relation to the report on NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde's maternity services, I am concerned and the ministers are very concerned by the issues that are raised. The report does highlight a number of positive aspects of the delivery of care, but it also uh highlights significant areas for improvement. The Cabinet Secretary for Health has already met with Healthcare Improvement Scotland and with Greater Glasgow and Clyde Health Board to relay the government's concern and to ensure that all of the 26 requirements of the report are taken forward urgently by the Health Board. And we have had reassurance on the um on these issues.
The Cabinet Secretary will meet with the Chief Executive of the Health Board once again before the parliamentary recess uh to review progress and to provide further reassurance that steps have been taken to implement the requirements of the report.
>> Anas Sarwar >> Uh thanks very much, officer. The The pattern in the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital report was not new.
Uh staff repeatedly raised concerns, warnings were made about unsafe pressures, concerns were raised about staffing levels and capacity, yet women continued to wait for delays at wait at with delays to treatment. It was the same in Lothian and in Tayside. There are clearly systemic nationwide problems. That is why we called for the national review in November, and that's why we welcomed the government's announcement it would happen. But 7 months on, it only now has a chair.
Julie Keegan, who lost her baby boy, and Louise Quill who lost both his wife and his unborn child, were promised they would be involved in the work of the task force and review. And 7 months on, and despite promises, families affected have heard nothing. So, will John Swinney commit now that this already delayed review will meaningfully involve the women and the families who have first-hand experience of the failures in Scotland's maternity services?
>> First Minister >> Um the Uh I I give Mr. Sarwar that assurance.
In relation to the recommendations that were made in connection with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, um there has, as a response to those recommendations, been an approach which has seen most of the recommend most, if not all, of the recommendations implemented as a consequence of the report. And there has also been an increase in midwife employment to ensure that some of the other capacity issues are properly addressed. Now, the government committed to the establishment of the maternity and neonatal natal task force, and steps were taken at the start of this year to take forward the agenda. And the ministers are very happy, and would indeed think it essential for for to be family engagement with the review, and I give that assurance will be the case today.
In relation to the specific families that Mr. Sarwar raises with me, the Health Secretary has committed to meet with those families, and I know that she will undertake that in that engagement.
>> Anas Sarwar.
>> I welcome that commitment from the First Minister. What worries families though is not simply what happened, it's the fear that will happen again.
John Swinney often tells us that pressures on the NHS are unprecedented, but these women were not failed by a virus or by bad luck. They were failed by a system that knew there was a problem and did not act quickly enough to fix it. Because time and time again, we see the same cycle. Warnings are raised, whistleblowers speak out, patients suffer, ministers promise lessons will be learned, a review is commissioned, and then the next scandal arrives. Seven months to appoint a chair is not good enough. When every day that passes without action risks another adverse incident and risks another broken family. This needs to be about more than just a process, it needs to improve services. So, when will John Swinney be able to guarantee that all women and babies will be safe in Scotland's maternity services across the country?
>> First Minister.
>> I think it's it's a fair point that Mr. Sarwar puts to me, but that's what I would say to him to reassure him is that in the period in which we've been preparing the the the national review, there have been a series of inspections undertaken at the government's behest. So, the government has required a number of these reviews to be undertaken.
As Mr. Sarwar correctly referred to, these have taken place in Tayside and in Lothian, and we now have the report in relation to NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde, and there are others in the country. And crucially, when those reviews identify recommendations, there is the discussion from the government to make with the relevant health boards to ensure that those recommendations are implemented and that's the case in NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde. But what there also is is the drawing out of the patterns of evidence which are coming out of these reports which are then the subject of a focus on improvement with all health boards in Scotland. So, I I I say that to Parliament to provide reassurance to families that when these reports are undertaken by Healthcare Improvement Scotland they result in learning and in the application of those processes in health boards around the country to ensure that we are constantly focused on improving services. And that's what the government is trying to do in the delivery of maternity services and crucially the work of Healthcare Improvement Scotland helps us to scrutinize and to identify the weaknesses so they can be addressed and the recommendations implemented and that will be the approach that the government takes on an ongoing basis.
>> Ross Greer >> Thank you. Scotland faces a wave of applications for hyperscale data centers. If all of the applications currently in the pipeline are approved, they would consume up to 6,000 megawatts of power. That's more than 1 and 1/2 times our entire national power use at peak time. That's obviously completely impossible, but there currently isn't any clear government strategy or guidance for councils around how to deal with these applications. They're completely different to the kind of data centers which already exist in Scotland.
We're not talking about socially and economically useful projects like the Edinburgh University supercomputer here.
The government's policy is to support what they refer to as green data centers, but this position was decided before ChatGPT existed, before Elon Musk launched Grok, and before any of these hyperscale proposals came forward. So, can I ask the First Minister, what is the Scottish government's definition of a green data center?
>> First Minister >> The the government's definition of a green data center is one that has been approved with due account being taken of the environmental implications of all developments that are required. And that will, of course, cover a range of the different issues that Mr. Greer has highlighted in his in his work. In defining green data centers, it's for a planning authority to implement to interpret and apply national planning policy in the circumstances of each case. They should consider factors such as renewable energy use, energy efficient technologies, reduced water consumption, and opportunities to reuse excess heat. And the government's planning hub has been working with planning authorities to ensure that there is a wide and consistent understanding of those factors in coming to those conclusions.
Ross Greer.
>> Thank you. The First Minister's response indicates the government expects these centers to all be approached individually, but we need a coherent national strategy for this. It's not an abstract issue. The huge energy demands by these data centers will mean higher energy bills for everyone else and very real problems for the communities that surround them. Multiple London boroughs have reportedly put a freeze on new house building because of the impacts of data centers on the grid. The centers use so much power that if additional homes are built in those areas, there would not be the grid capacity to provide them with electricity. And this is urgent. There are applications that are set to be decided possibly before this parliament returns from our summer recess. Data centers can play an important role in our economy, but not if we let a free-for-all of unworkable applications continue. So, can I ask the First Minister today, will he agree to a moratorium on new data centers above 50 megawatts until we can agree a clear national strategy and give councils the specific guidance they need before they make decisions on individual applications.
>> First Minister.
>> [applause] >> I understand the concerns that Mr. Greer puts to me, but what I would say is that I think the detail of planning policy addresses the issues about which he is concerned, particularly in relation to renewable energy use, particularly in relation to energy efficient technologies, particularly in relation to water consumption and the the generation of heat. So, the planning policy is is there to enable local authorities to make the appropriate determinations that they consider necessary. Obviously, there has to be an extensive amount of interaction and dialogue with individual communities to to determine on these applications or before these applications are determined, but the criteria for the consideration and the assessment of such develop- developments is set out very clearly in planning policy.
>> Ross Greer.
>> I can't reconcile what the First Minister is saying about planning policy with how it is actually operating in practice, Presiding Officer. Bixley says that the definition of a green data data center is one where environmental considerations have been taken into account. There is no requirement to do an environmental impact assessment on a data center application. In fact, six of the proposed hyperscale data centers in the pipeline right now have not undergone any environmental impact assessment, so they can't possibly meet the definition the First Minister has just set out. They haven't undergone that assessment because councils are dealing with these applications in the dark. They haven't been given the guidance that the First Minister is implying they have. One of those proposals that hasn't undergone any EIA is the one at Auchtertool in Fife. It would be the size of 100 football pitches, and its 600 MW of energy needs would be monumental. That's the same as 1.3 million households for just one private business. And I'm not asking the First Minister to comment on individual applications. He can't do that, but I bring him back to the point that in total, these 24 applications announced so far would require 6,000 MW. That's more than 1 and 1/2 times our country's entire peak energy demands right now.
The First Minister must recognize that's not possible. So, will we come back to Parliament next week before we suspend for the summer and announce a pause on approvals for new hyperscale data centers until some kind of national plan is in place.
>> First Minister.
>> I think Mr. Mr. Greer raises an important issue and it gets to the the the nub of how prescriptive planning policy should be within Scotland. And it it's a it's a reasonable point, but I think what often is argued for in Parliament is for local decision-making within a policy framework set by government. Mr. Greer is asking me to do something much more specific and much more instructive and determinative than that. And it's a perfectly reasonable point, but it's different to the prevailing mood in which Parliament has argued for planning policy to be undertaken. Indeed, if I think about the contents of national planning the national planning framework four, um much of NPF4 is predicated on the basis of what I've just set out to Parliament and Mr. Greer will be familiar with the formulation of that document. So, um the government will, of course, consider all emerging planning issues. We have got to monitor the implications of planning decisions at local level. Um but, I think we've got to be If Parliament wishes there to be a fundamental change to the way in which we determine on such issues, then Parliament will have to have an open discussion about whether these powers should be exercised nationally by the government and not locally by individual local authorities, which has been the prevailing view of Parliament up until now. And obviously that's an issue that Parliament is welcome to consider.
>> Russell Findlay.
>> Thank you for staying on so long. A new report has revealed massive oil and gas reserves off Shetland, an estimated 4.7 billion barrels of oil, which is great news. Yet our imports are at their highest levels since the 1970s, and much of the gas we use is fracked in the United States, generating four times higher CO2. These new fields can provide cleaner domestic energy for decades while supporting thousands of jobs.
But the Aberdeen University researchers warn that their paper might serve as an obituary to the industry unless we get drilling. So does John Swinney agree that we should get drilling, or will he help to oversee the death of Scotland's oil and gas industry?
>> First Minister.
>> Um what what what has what has undermined the North Sea oil and gas sector has been the energy profits levy that was applied by the Conservative government in the first place. That's precisely what is the difficulty just now. That is what makes it difficult for companies to invest. That's what companies are telling me that they're finding it difficult to invest because of the energy profits levy that was started by the Conservatives and which has been carried on by the Labour government at Westminster. Now where I think there is a legitimate argument to be advanced is in the emissions assessment between the activity that takes place within our own domestic energy sector and the activity that arises out of the extraction of fossil fuels which are then imported into this country because of our ongoing requirements to use um uh oil and gas resources in our energy mix. So, as part of any assessment of the appropriateness of any new licenses in the oil and gas sector, that question of the total emissions of any individual project must be considered as part of any decision-making by the United Kingdom government, and that's exactly what Scottish government policy says on this issue.
>> Russell Findlay So, he doesn't answer the question, but talks about the EPL, which his party first called for.
>> absolutely.
>> Now, my colleague, Douglas Lumsden, is Aberdeen's oil and gas champion. He has persistently demanded to know when the SNP government will publish its delayed energy strategy.
But, now we discover that the SNP ministers have amassed precisely nothing about it in the first 5 months of this this year. Absolutely nothing. For years, the sleekit SNP have behaved in the most dishonest and despicable way.
John Swinney pretends to support oil and gas, while he still backs the anti-drilling policy of Nicola Sturgeon and the Green Party.
>> So, with 1,000 jobs being lost every single month, when will John Swinney start telling workers the truth?
>> First Minister >> First of all, uh Findlay gets into ever more desperate attempts to try to um avoid the responsibility that the Conservative government carries for the difficulties in the oil and gas sector, because Mr. Findlay and his party in government brought forward the energy profits levy. They applied it with impetus and increased it and extended it. And what is it doing? It's culling jobs in the northeast of Scotland. It's the responsibility of the Conservatives.
If Douglas Lumsden was actually at his work on any available occasion, he could be he could be held to account for He could be held to account for all his activities, but Douglas Lumsden for weeks and weeks has been skiving somewhere else. What on earth What on earth has the Conservative Party become?
The bunch of skivers in this Parliament.
>> Alex Cole-Hamilton.
>> Thank you, Presiding Officer. Presiding Officer, this week marks the ninth anniversary of the Grenfell fire. I know all of our thoughts are with those who lost their lives in that tragedy and with those who survived it. The Humanity for Grenfell Group are still campaigning for people living in cladded flats, and they are right to do so. Nearly a decade on from Grenfell, too many people are lying awake at night wondering if their home might be at risk. And across Scotland, there are almost 1,000 buildings suspected of having dangerous cladding. So, can I ask the First Minister why new figures out this week reveal his government has only got round to investigating 149 of them and staggeringly why cladding removal is underway in only three buildings in this country.
>> First Minister.
>> So, so one of the one of the issues that we've had to wrestle with has been to have the effective legislative framework in place to enable us to deal with a number of issues, not least of which is about multiple ownership within individual buildings. Now, that legislation has been put in place by the government, and we are now, as a result of having the legislative framework in place, able to proceed with the important work that is necessary to be undertaken to investigate properties and to identify the remedial action that is required to be taken and the steps that have got to be taken as a consequence.
So, I I I I understand the importance and the urgency of so doing, but the government has got to have a legal framework upon which to act and we have now We've secured that in the last parliamentary term and we're now taking the steps to ensure that the actions can be taken to provide that reassurance to members of the public.
>> Alex Cole-Hamilton.
>> But presiding officer, we are nearly 10 years, 10 years on from Grenfell and the response we've just heard will come as no comfort, no comfort whatsoever for those people who cannot insure or sell their homes. People who are actually in fear for their lives because they just want to know that their homes are safe.
The UK government gave this his ministers 100 million pounds to conduct these cladding assessments. So, money is not the problem, the lack of urgency, the lack of urgency is. It appears that not a single building has actually been checked in the past 6 months. More than 2 years ago, this chamber passed the cladding remediation bill. Ministers, ironically, said that this would speed up the process. So, can I ask the First Minister, will he get a grip on this?
Will he guarantee that by the time we reach the 10th anniversary of Grenfell next year that every single one of these vital checks will have taken place?
>> First Minister.
>> So, let me reassure Mr. Cole-Hamilton that there is a variety of interventions taking place, some of which involves um building assessments, some of which requires taking mitigation measures within buildings and that work is underway, which will not which will not show up in the statistics that Mr. Cole-Hamilton has put to me today. But so so there there is other work. So, essentially what I'm saying is that Mr. Cole-Hamilton does not present a complete picture of the activity that is underway. But I assure him with the legislative framework that we have in place, the steps that have been taken in the government's program, the availability of the resources that we have within our budget, which of course Liberal Democrats uh supported our budget in getting that into place, for which I'm very grateful. He knows that point um to ensure that we can take the necessary action to address uh and to reassure members of the public who are affected by this issue. And uh I'm very happy for ministers to provide update reports to Parliament in the course of the next 12 months to make sure that the concerns of members of the public, as expressed by Mr. Cole-Hamilton, can be properly and fully addressed.
>> Thank you. That concludes First Minister's Questions, and I wish to advise the chamber that next week I plan to reverse the order for Leaders' Questions, so we'll start with two questions from Alex Cole-Hamilton, followed by two from the Conservatives, three from the Greens, three from Labour, and three from Reform. Point of order, Craig Hoy.
>> Thank you, uh Presiding Officer.
Pursuant to Standing Order 13.1, and in light of the Scottish Parliament Corporate Bodies Media Access Policy and Rules, I I rise to ask whether any member has sought to make a personal statement to this Parliament to address the questioning by media within the parliamentary estate. I ask this because as a member >> This is not actually a point of order, it's a matter for the Corporate Body.
Mr. Hoy.
>> Perhaps Presiding Officer, you could hear the point of order in full to determine whether it is a point of order.
>> what you want to say, and it's not a matter for the chair, it's for >> On a point of order >> Point of order, Presiding Officer, given the urgency of this, may I ask how we proceed >> Mr. Hoy, thank you, Mr. Hoy.
>> Next item of business is a statement by Stephen Gethins on 10th anniversary of the UK referendum on EU membership. The member will take questions at the end of the statement, and there will be no interventions or interruptions. We will have 1 minute to enable a changeover of ministers. Thank you.
>> Can I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly and members in the gallery? Thank you very much.
As the presiding officer has said, the next item of business is a statement from the Scottish government on the 10th anniversary of the UK referendum and EU membership. And I call Minister Stephen Gethins.
>> Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Next week, astonishingly, marks the 10th anniversary of the referendum on the United Kingdom's membership of the European Union, which I'm sure we can all agree was one of the most consequential moments in the history of this Parliament, the peoples of our shared islands, and of course, the rest of Europe.
10 years on, this Parliament must reflect with honesty, clarity, and above all, with a sense of responsibility to those whose lives have been shaped by that decision.
That vote and its aftermath has meant economic vandalism, social damage, cultural loss, and a weakening of our international relationships at a time when cooperation across Europe has never been more important.
No department or issue has been unaffected. From our NHS, with for example, the exit from European Medicines Agency, to agriculture, the removal of access to the single market, and to education and the tragic loss of opportunities for our young people.
Now, to be fair, MSPs got that 10 years ago. This Parliament responded to an event neither of its making or its choosing in a cohesive and responsible manner across the chamber to be fair.
Something I know from first-hand experience was lacking at Westminster.
Scotland did not vote for this having overwhelmingly backed EU membership in a referendum for the second time.
Despite that, MSPs in the Scottish Government consistently offered compromise to the UK.
And in 2006, a motion by my predecessor Michael Russell called for Scotland to remain inside the single market and that was overwhelmingly backed with support from SNP, Scottish Labour, and the Greens. And to be fair, the Liberal Democrats didn't back it but did call for a second referendum.
Instead, we got the Internal Market Act with Westminster taking back control not just from Brussels, but also from Cardiff, Belfast, and of course Edinburgh.
EU membership had empowered devolved administrations and leaving the EU has left the UK more centralized than ever.
We were told that leaving the European Union would bring new opportunities, greater prosperity, more control, a stronger voice.
I'm going to be generous and say that those comments were at best incorrect.
Every sector was damaged.
For businesses, leaving the EU introduced friction where there was once fluidity, barriers where there was access, and uncertainty where there was stability.
In November 2023, nearly 40% of businesses in Scotland cited leaving the EU as the main cause of difficulties in trading overseas.
UK-EU trade is estimated to be about a quarter lower in the long run than if the UK had remained in the EU with non-tariff barriers with the EU being the main driver behind the shortfall.
The agri-food sector in particular has struggled to export to the EU, leading to a substantial and sustained loss in one of our most important sectors for exporting and, of course, employment.
Public revenues in Scotland and the public services that depend on them were estimated to have lost about 3.3 billion pounds in 2025 alone based on research by the National Institute for Economic and Social Research. That means that every day over 9 million pounds is lost to public revenues in Scotland in 2025, and the question has to be can we really afford it anymore?
And for households, the consequences have been profoundly damaging. Cost of living pressures have been exacerbated at a time when families can least afford it with a 250-pound increase in food and drink bills due to leaving the EU, with UK households collectively having paid an extra 7 billion pounds just to cover the extra cost of doing business outside the single market.
I have to say there is a particular tragedy for our young people.
Every political generation should leave more opportunity than they themselves enjoyed. That should be a basic for all of us in this chamber.
But we cannot say that. With the removal of the freedoms to live, learn, and work across the European Union, a British passport is now the most restrictive in Western Europe.
And whilst the personal financial losses have been great, we mustn't lose sight of security and considerations just now.
Deputy Presiding Officer, we meet at a time of profound geopolitical instability. Russia's illegal war in Ukraine, shifting political global alliances, threats to energy and food security all underline the importance of strong cooperation in Europe. The rest of Europe gets that. The EU is not simply an economic block. It's a community grounded in shared values, democracy, human rights, the rule of law, equality, and freedom.
Now, leaving the EU was a bad idea 10 years ago.
It's a dangerous idea today. It's left the UK, and by extension, Scotland more isolated at a time when the challenges we face demand deeper partnership, not detachment.
And whilst there's been a change in ideology from the most recent UK government, I'm afraid to say it's still tinkering. Current efforts by the UK government to rebuild relationships are welcome, but not enough. The UK government's own figures suggest that the deal currently being negotiated, and far from certain of being delivered, will add only 9 billion pounds to the economy by 2040. That's the equivalent of about 0.2% of GDP.
By contrast, the Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that leaving the EU reduced GDP by at least, at least, 4%. So, that loss is 20 times greater.
And I ask the UK government, where's the ambition? Where's the responsibility to individuals and businesses to reverse this damaging decision?
Now, the Scottish government has published a series of policy papers to set out clearly our objectives for Scotland's relationship with the EU in key areas that affect the lives of all of us, trade, education, energy.
The UK government could change this, but chooses not to. And we all pay the price for that inaction. And of course, there's a human dimension to all of this. Leaving the EU has affected families who have made their lives across borders, those European citizens who pay us the privilege of make Scotland home. And I say this to my fellow European citizens, that I will continue to make the case for you every single day while I'm in this job.
Every country that's joined the EU got wealthier. Its sovereignty was strengthened, and its citizens' rights enhanced.
The reverse happened for the one state that left.
Leaving the EU is a backward step as Europe moves closer together. It's almost inevitable that we're going to rejoin. It's simply a question of how much damage we sustain until that moment.
So, where do we go from here? First, we will continue to press for the closest possible relationship between the UK and the EU, and I've been glad to already have discussed that with my counterpart in the UK government, Nick Thomas-Symonds, and I'm grateful to him for his um collaboration and conversation. I made it clear to him that both the EU and UK have much to gain from better relationship with the EU. Just one example is energy, where Scotland is a massive exporter and very much part of the solution when it comes to pan-European energy security, a key concern in other European capitals. And the UK government must make the most of the forthcoming UK-EU summit, and ensure that the negotiations deliver the fullest possible outcomes. And we've been clear to the UK government that we seek further improvements, although I have to say, I'm still unsure as to why the UK government is sticking to its damaging red lines on the single market and the customs union. It's an absolute mystery to me. Secondly, we must ensure that Scotland's voice is heard. Too often Scotland's distinct interests and democratic choices have been sidelined.
That can't continue anymore. We know how damaging that has been. And third and most importantly, we must recognize that there's a limit to what can be achieved um under current constitutional framework. The UK's 18th century model of union brought us to this place and is no longer fit for purpose. Brexit exposed its flaws.
There is no alternative partnership model, and one that's being pursued by our neighbors, a 21st century model of union based on true respect and partnership between nations.
That's something that the EU and the rest of Europe gets and understands.
Deputy Presiding Officer, 10 years on from the Brexit referendum, we owe it to the people of Scotland, particularly younger generations, to speak honestly about what has happened.
The conclusion is unavoidable.
Leaving the EU did not deliver what was promised. It left Scotland and the rest of the UK poorer, more isolated, and less secure.
The question for us all is what we're prepared to do about it. Now, I believe that Scotland's future lies in restoring our place at the heart of Europe. That's the challenge of the next decade, and it's one that this Parliament must meet with hope, clarity, and determination.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
>> [applause] >> Thank you. The Minister will now take questions on the issues raised in the statement. I intend to allow 20 minutes for questions, after which we will move to next business. It would be helpful if members who wish to ask a question press the request to speak buttons now.
I call Sandesh Gulhane.
>> Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Firstly, I want to start by commemorating the hard work of many, particularly Nigel Farage, on pushing for this necessary referendum to leave the European Union 10 years ago.
I want to take the opportunity to make known my long-held frustration with the idea that Scotland didn't vote for Brexit, when in fact far more Scots voted for Brexit than voted for the SNP in the recent election.
1,018,322 people in Scotland voted for Brexit, and 877,000 Scots voted for this rotten government.
But, those over 1 million Scots' voices aren't counted when this Parliament flies the EU flag at its door.
We constantly hear this government blame Brexit for the country's failings. So, can I ask the Minister, can he actually name one major economic challenge currently facing the people of the south of Scotland today that would not still exist had Scotland remained in the European Union? Or does he accept that this is another political excuse for continued SNP failure?
>> Minister.
>> Well, first of all, I'll thank the member for her intervention for first of all, reminding us that Reform have a record, a track record, and it's a poor one. It's a track record of dragging us out of the EU at the cost of billions to the exchequer, which are now having to be made up. It's a track record of pushing up the cost of living, pushing up our energy prices, and our food and drink prices during the cost of living crisis. And as the member rails against flags, I will remind her that there's also a Council of Europe flag that sits outside this chamber and flies proudly and should remain there.
One that underlines the rights that we have as European citizens, and that her party wants to take away. And I'm afraid to say, Deputy Presiding Officer, I don't have all day to go through the failures. I went through some of them now, but I would remind her to go back to the south of Scotland and talk to them about the dip in agri-food exports that her region relies on so much. The increase in energy prices are costing households in her area, and the removal of rights that previous generations took for granted.
>> [applause] >> I call Daniel Johnson to be followed by Pauline Stafford.
>> Uh thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
And can I thank uh the Minister for advance sight of his statement. Um there is much that we agree in the statement.
We may disagree on some of the constitutional conclusions, but I would indeed might go further. Um the damage from Brexit I would estimate to be between 6 to 8% based on on many measures. And I agree with him that our future has to be about closer alignment and a closer relationship with the European Union. And I note his reservations about the forthcoming treaty. But would he acknowledge that the sanitary and phytosanitary agreement will make a substantial difference for farmers in the food business, not least reducing or eliminating the £300 per consignment bill, and indeed easing trade across the Irish Sea, one of the deep ironies of the hard Brexit deal.
But also on carbon trading, would he acknowledge the benefit there? But moreover, will would he welcome if this summit is becomes an annual event, so we have further such treaties in the future?
>> Minister.
>> I'd like to thank Mr. Johnson not just for his question, but but for for the spirit. So, first thing in the spirit of agreement, I think to emphasize the point on the 4% I was using the conservative figures. But even then, he and I agree that these are deeply worrying figures in the Finance Secretary is is is sitting here, and just imagine what we could have do for our public services with that money that's being thrown away right now, thrown away. Now, on the point that he makes, yes, of course, look, I welcome any progress.
The SPS and I said that to Nick Thomas-Symonds the other day. It does still mean that the Conservatives spent hundreds of millions of pounds on border checks that are no longer needed.
Hundreds of millions of pounds thrown away by the Conservatives backed by Reform, incidentally.
But he talks to another point here, and he's now talking about annual talks around this.
Cuz this doesn't end. Brexit doesn't end until you rejoin, and he points to that.
Annual talks, so why on earth why on earth are we still backing leaving the single market and the Customs Union?
Incidentally, something that Labour backed 10 years ago. Now, I've no idea what successes he sees with the Conservative Party that they've achieved in that period that's made them change his mind, but I certainly have it and I would urge his party and the UK government to review those lines as a matter of urgency.
>> Can I inform the chamber that there are a large number of questions and and if we're going to get through them all, we'll need more concise questions and answers and I call Pauline Stafford.
>> Thank you, presiding officer. I thank the minister for this statement on what is one of the saddest anniversaries for our country.
10 years on from the Brexit vote, Scotland's artists, musicians, and creative professionals continue to face significant barriers to working and touring in Europe. These challenges have contributed to fewer touring opportunities and reduced international career development, particularly for young and emerging artists.
While many of the key levers remain reserved to the UK government, can the minister outline what further action the Scotland the Scottish government is taking to support Scotland's artists and creative sectors, including through advocating for the UK's participation in programs such as Creative Europe and its successor Agora EU?
>> Minister.
>> Um, can I thank the member for raising this? This is a really important point.
Now, the Scottish government would welcome a return to Erasmus Plus. We we We we do improve pressing for continued participation. That's good for students, apprentices, and teachers as well. And we're calling for the UK association to Agora EU to restore the vital cultural collaboration that Pauline Stafford quite rightly brings up. We've also repeatedly pressed the UK government for for easements and targeted support for touring artists by the barriers created by Brexit and advocating for an EU mobility agreement to reduce obstacles.
But Pauline Stafford's right. These challenges stem directly from leaving the EU against Scotland's will and the consequences, 82% of musicians report reduced EU earnings, 65% fewer invitations, and 57% unable to take up work due to the to the increased costs. It's just not worth it.
>> I call Jillian Mackay to followed by Creekmore.
>> Thanks presiding officer. We all know how damaging Brexit has been to our economy and our democracy and I'm pleased to hear the minister highlight that human cost cuz I think that's a tangible thing that everybody can realize that we've lost. At a time where global relations are so unstable, we need to work more closely with our European allies. That involves having a strong program of international engagement. So, can the minister confirm that he will prioritize maintaining the network of international offices and particularly those in Europe to assist with that alignment?
>> Minister.
>> I can I thank Gillian Mackay for for for the question. Also, I'm I'm I'm going to say unlike others the coherence of her party on this particular issue because I think it makes a lot of sense. But, she's also right in terms of the human cost and when we talk about facts and figures they're important and help us understand if the finance secretary will forgive me a moment highlighting that cost, that human cost. I know that she gets in terms of the impact on people.
And Gillian Mackay's right. I think that our offices across Europe and elsewhere have done a fantastic job. It's great to see the first minister in Boston. That's not just good for supporting our football team, it's good for jobs and investment at home. Jobs rely on the international engagement and I want to pay my part of it over the past decade, the fantastic job that the team in Brussels have done in maintaining that Scotland's interests are heard, but also sticking up for jobs and investment back home. That's a vital part of that and that's something that I can assure her I continue to be committed to.
>> Call Creekmore to be followed by Duncan McNulty.
>> Thank you, uh, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Was this statement not an entire waste of valuable parliamentary time? And isn't it symptomatic of this government's obsession with matters beyond the control of this Parliament?
But, I will indulge the minister by asking him this simple question. By what economic logic would we want to leave a union where we are a net beneficiary to become at the flick of a switch the member of a union where we'd be expected to be a net financial contributor.
>> Minister.
>> Do you know I think it says something of where the conservatives have gone in terms of their disregard for the economy and for jobs whereby the member does not think this is an important statement.
Every single day every minister in this government is having to deal with the consequences of a decision foisted on them by Boris Johnson and his government. Now, on the point it also speaks to that sense of British exceptionalism that the Conservative Party is renowned for. Every country in Europe gets that a 21st century model of union is one of equality and partnership. That's why every member country that joined the EU got wealthier and the country that left the EU got poorer and that's on them.
>> Duncan Dunlop to be followed by Allan Smith.
>> Thank you presiding officer and I thank the minister for advance sight of his statement. For the last 10 years the Liberal Democrats have been clear. We believe we never should have left the EU. We remain the strongest defenders of the European Union and the union of the United Kingdom because being a member of both has preserved Scotland's peace and prosperity and both are now needed more than ever as our world is in a much more volatile place. But being pragmatic can I ask the minister if you'll join calls for the UK government to immediately begin talks with the EU on a new growth and defense partnership that would include a new UK EU customs union, rejoining the single market and a new defense pact with our EU allies.
>> Minister.
>> So first of all to Mr. Dunlop, I'm going to be generous. Look, I've voted to the closest I've voted for membership of the customs union and the single market. You name it when I was at Westminster. I also am in asking since to why the UK would not join safe that defense and that defense procurement project when even Canada has joined that. So on that point, I take his point. What I don't understand about the Liberal Democrats who profess to be strong advocates for the EU is that we know that even joining the Customs Union in the single market is the second best option. The Treasury in fact tells us it's the second best option. Why go for the second best when you can go for the best option?
>> Call Alan Smith to be followed by Mike Bannerman.
>> Thank you, presiding officer. I think it's right that we take good stock of the fact the reality that the Brexit lies have not been delivered. But I'm more interested in the future when we actually have the solution which we know Brexit was missold. Brexit has made everything worse. Brexit made everybody poorer. But the solution to my or mind is independence in Europe. So the Minister will have taken good note just this Monday that the EU has commenced the cluster one accession talks with Moldova which is nothing like our resources and Ukraine which is under illegal occupation and daily bombardment. Does that not nail forever the idea that Scotland could somehow not become an EU member really very easily?
>> Minister.
>> Um you know, Alan Smith and I have one thing in common which is we have many things in common one but one of which is we served in a parliament that we didn't see a future in. I now serve in a parliament that I do see a future in.
Alan's now in his second parliament that that Scotland has a future in. And he's right, the rest sees a future in that as well. It speaks to exceptionalism. It speaks to isolationism.
You know, I can remember these Brexiteers who were telling us that there'd be a big queue of countries that were going to leave in the aftermath of the UK's profound success. Well, how where where are they? Instead, we've seen countries queuing up to join the European Union. The isolation and exceptionalism as voiced by Reform and their conservative allies has got us to this disastrous place and the rest of Europe has learned a lesson from that.
>> Max Bannerman to be followed by Jenny Marron too.
>> Can I thank the Minister for his statement and welcome to his place?
Uh in my region, Murray voted by just 122 votes to remain in the EU. So I think it's a bit wide off the mark as Angus Brendan has said for the Minister to claim overwhelming support for the EU project.
Now in his statement, the Minister made no mention of fishing, which is unfortunately. Scotland accounts for almost half of all UK fishing uh industry jobs and more than 60% of the value of all UK landings. But half of our commercially fished species are overfished or at very low population sizes and catch limits are being set above scientific advice. And under the Labor Lancaster House agreement, European access to overfished Scottish waters has been set in stone for the next 12 years. And Scotland only benefited from 28 million out of the 360 million fishing and coastal growth fund.
So does the Minister not agree with me that the best way to safeguard this vital industry would be to utilize Brexit benefits so that any recovery from our territorial waters gives priority to Scottish boats, particularly smaller vessels?
>> Minister.
>> I I keep hearing that our Brexit benefits that that we've not had the proper kind of of of Brexit. It was kind of like the arguments I was hearing about communism in the 1990s that we just hadn't had the right kind of communism. It's very much the same kind of argument. Now we've seen a drop in our agri-foods exports. We've also seen the impact that leaving the single market has had not just in exports but in in in in terms of staffing as well.
And this is the second reform member who stood up and struggled with basic maths.
The people of Murray voted to remain in the European Union. Not for the first time, for the second time. It's basic maths and I'd encourage them to catch up.
>> I call on Jenny Minto, to be followed by Mark Griffin.
>> Thank you. Thank you, presiding officer, and I thank the Minister for his statement, and agree that Scotland should most definitely be at the heart of Europe. Ending the free movement of labor has severely restricted the pool of workers in key sectors in Argyll and Bute. Tourism, hospitality, and the care sector have all struggled with staff shortages and recruitment difficulties, and I've lost count of the number of organizations that have spoken to me directly about this. So, does the Minister agree with me that, given the UK government has neglected to act to resolve this issue, they should step aside and devolve the powers to the Scottish Parliament, so that we can introduce a Scottish visa system that supports all these sectors and more?
>> Minister.
>> Um thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.
Jenny Minto rightly highlights us that Brexit has created a real and growing workforce challenge across Scotland in sectors like tourism, hospitality, social care, other areas that traditionally relied on access to EU labor, and Jenny Minto knows the impact that that's had in areas like Argyll and Bute. Now, the Scottish government has highlighted and discussed these challenges with the UK government, and proposed practical solutions like a tailored Scottish visa and a rural visa pilot. And indeed, when I was a a member of the House of Commons, I tried to take a private member's bill through on this very matter. Now, we continue to encourage the UK government to to to address this, to work with the Scottish government. I do note that it's something that the Labour Party, or the Scottish Labour, had previously talked about, but just like everybody else, UK Labour doesn't seem to be listening to them.
>> I call Mark Griffin.
>> It's thank you, presiding officer. The the Minister set out the the damage that has taken place in this country as a result of leaving a a political and economic union and there's nothing in the statement that that I can disagree with. But, what I what I would say to the Minister is that in crude conclusion he asked what we're prepared to do about it. Is the government able to set out a bit more detail as how we pull together Parliament and work together in a similar basis to that the vote that you mentioned in the statement to actually achieving that outcome together.
>> Minister.
>> Well, Mr. Griffin's right. 10 years ago there was a vote, an important vote in the Scottish Parliament that offered a compromise. You know, I think there's only one member of the Scottish Parliament who actually out of 129 who backed um leaving the the the the EU which speaks to the greater wisdom that was collected in this place maybe than in the Westminster Parliament. And there are things that look, I'll my as I've said to others, I will happily engage and I've engaged with Nick Thomas Symonds. But, if we look at the potential benefits being 20 times less than you know, the loss that we are sustaining, we see the impact. And I talked about you know, we we look, I I welcome Nick Thomas Symonds and where and where he's engaged. But, where are we on the energy sector? Where are we on the freedoms that young people enjoyed?
All these range of areas where we will continue to press the UK government to go much further. And I have to say I'm exceptionally disappointed in the Labour Party that has veered off to what is, under any measure, a hard Brexit that was brought in by Tories and endorsed by Reform. I would encourage his government, and I say this in good faith, to be much much more ambitious. And I would urge the Scottish Labour members in this to join us in making that case.
>> Um I'm encouraging shorter questions and shorter answers if possible to allow every member come in, call Alex Cole to be followed by Patrick Harvey.
>> Thank you, presiding officer.
Um despite every single counselor in Scotland voting to remain in Europe, we're dragged out against our will.
Companies like DFDS, who operate logistics hub in Larkhall in my constituency, and they're one of the major routes to the continent for seafood caught in the west coast, and their clients are paying the cost of remaining shackled to Brexit Britain.
With previous figures showing 4 billion has been lost, could the Minister provide the most up-to-date figures for the cost to the Scottish economy of leaving the European Union and the single market and the potential economic growth that could be achieved by rejoining our European neighbors?
>> Minister.
>> Well, I'd like to thank Alec Kerr. Well, we know that Scotland was one of the hardest-hit parts of the UK when it came to to to Brexit, and the figures I used earlier on, a 3.3 billion reduction in revenues, and the House of Commons research commissioned by the Liberal Democrats with a 90 billion loss or 250 million pounds every day. The Deputy First Minister knows exactly the cost that that is having, and we need to reverse this, and I thank Alec Kerr for his very sensible question. I'll continue to work with him and others in how we can minimize the damage.
>> Call Patrick Harvey to be followed by Jackie Dunbar.
>> The UK-EU partnership bill announced in the King's speech will undoubtedly do a lot less good than rejoining would, but if it has the any potential to begin undoing some of the damage of Brexit, uh then we should try to work constructively with it. Has the UK government been working collaboratively with the Scottish government to agree the terms of that bill, and is the Minister confident that there will be no breach of the devolution settlement or the Sewel Convention?
>> Minister.
>> Um I'd like to thank Patrick Harvey.
He'll be well aware of the impact of the internal market that that had on this place and the fact that it took away powers that centralized the the the the the the UK and the breaches that came in subsequently. I'm relatively new into this job. I'm going to give the Labour government the benefit of the doubt.
Would like to see an awful lot more.
Anything that brings us closer to the rest of Europe and minimizes the damage is something we'll welcome. I will always look to work with colleagues in a constructive manner. But let's be clear.
We are minimizing the damage that has been done. Damage is still being done and it's not being forced upon us. It is a political choice.
>> Jackie Dunbar.
>> Thank you, Presiding Officer. Living, working, or studying abroad is a hugely enriching experience to encounter new cultures and skills. What estimation does the Minister make of the social and educational impact on Scots young people who are being denied the opportunity to expand their horizons in a way previously facilitated through free freedom of movement within the EU and the likes of the Erasmus Plus program?
>> Minister.
>> Um I'd like to thank Jac- Jackie Dunbar for this. She'll get it given given the impact of educational institutions and the impact on young people in her own constituency in Aberdeen. Look, I I don't I don't want to make this too personal, but just we just let me reflect for a moment. I was an Erasmus student. It was transformative for me. I could never have done it financially or otherwise if it had not been for those connections.
And what I find heartbreaking, there's no other word for it, is that I am now in a political generation who are not bequeathing many of these opportunities that we ourselves enjoyed. And that's something we all need to reflect on. Now look, the movements on on Erasmus Plus are welcome. It's progress, but it's not back to where we were and the removal of the right to live, learn, and work across the whole of Europe and the reduction in having a British passport is something that young people will bear the consequences of even more than other generations.
>> The next item of business is a statement by Hannah Mary Goddard on provisional outturn 2025 to 2026.
The Minister will take questions at the end of this statement and therefore should be no interventions or interruptions.
I'll give the Minister and front benches the opportunity to take their seats.
I call on Hannah Mary Goddard.
>> Presiding officer, I welcome the opportunity to make my first statement to Parliament as the Minister for public finance. I give a commitment to staying on time and to Willie Rennie who unfortunately isn't here to to being boring.
Also, very importantly, to update the provisional outturn against the Scottish budget for the financial year of 25/26.
We have once again remained within restricted HM Treasury expenditure limits and managed Scotland's finances responsibly while continuing to protect public services and delivery on our bold ambitions for Scotland.
Ambitions grounded in equality, hope, and fairness.
The provisional fiscal outturn for 25/26 is 55.9 billion against a total fiscal budget of 56.3 billion.
This represents an underspend of 358 million, just 1. Just 0.6 of our total budget.
It is important to remind Parliament that we absolutely cannot overspend by a penny.
And therefore, must always generate an underspend in order to guard against any late movements in devolved tax, social security spend, demand-led programs, as well as providing contingency against post year-end adjustments. Up to 200 million is set aside for such contingency.
The underspend incorporates 312 >> Mhm.
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