Patricia Dattoma

[00:00:04]Welcome to another episode of Canvas Commentary. On this episode, we have Patricia, an abstract artist and friend from the visionary art collective.

[00:00:16]Inspired by a lifetime in New York City, Patricia draws from the energy, diversity, and rhythm of the neighborhoods, architecture, crowded streets, and subways to create expressive abstract paintings. Join us as we talk with Patricia about her artistic journey, her creative process, and how the complexity of city life finds its way into the canvas. Don't forget to like and subscribe.

[00:00:45]>> [music] [music] >> Hello, Pat. Patricia, right?

[00:00:56]>> Yes.

[00:00:56]>> Okay.

[00:00:57]>> Never Patty. Never Patty.

[00:00:59]>> Never Patty. Well, my mom's the same way. She's Barbara and people try to call her Barbie and she like punches them in the face. It's really funny. But Patricia, welcome. Uh if people don't know Patricia and I we talked about it in uh Joseph's uh there was a class that Victoria Fry, the owner of uh Warren's Contemporary is a part of and she joined us together and we've known each other for about a year now, >> right? Yeah.

[00:01:35]>> I love your work. I am so excited for you to be on the podcast.

[00:01:40]Thank you. And thank you so much for inviting me that this is really fantastic. I love that you're doing this. Thank you so much.

[00:01:47]>> My pleasure. I Everyone in the class I was like they have to be a part of this.

[00:01:53]I you guys were the first one.

[00:01:55]>> So [clears throat] nice.

[00:01:55]>> Um Katie was the first one that I thought of. I texted and but she hasn't she's been busy so she's going to try to get in there here soon. But >> yeah, that's great though. It's great.

[00:02:07]It's pleasure to be here Derek. Thank you. And I if you don't know me, my f just don't call me you or anything. Just keep using my first name because I love the New York accent saying Derek cuz I don't know why it just I was going to say >> yeah, tickles the brain.

[00:02:26]>> I hope it doesn't come out too much, but you know, when I get really comfortable, you'll really hear it. So, [laughter and clears throat] >> no, it tickles my brain in a good way. I love hearing people say Derek in a New Jersey or New York accent is the best.

[00:02:40]Um, >> that's funny.

[00:02:41]>> So, to introduce yourself, [clears throat] what is your art style and how from start to finish describe it?

[00:02:51]>> Okay. I would I I've come a long way in in a in my style. Um, I used to think representational art was was it. You had to draw technically perfect and it had to look like the thing. And and the more I did that, the more bored I became because I wasn't feeling anything with with the thing I was drawing. I had to be super connected to it.

[00:03:17]>> Um, and so then I just started thinking about, well, what what really what drives me? And I love color. love color and I love expressing myself through color and through shape and form. So I said to myself, well, I guess I would describe myself as an abstract expressionist. And basically, loosely basically that's that's what it is. I'm really influenced by color and a sense of place and memory. So I internalize the things around me and they it comes out on the canvas in an abstract way. So I don't know if that's clear or not.

[00:03:58]It's hard to describe.

[00:04:00]>> Okay. But um >> when you start a painting is does it start with [clears throat] it does it start with like a Monae this is the emotion I want to or this is the picture I want to display or >> No. Okay. It's kind of like um I will get an intention based on a memory or a place I've visited. For example, um recently I've been thinking about a very pivotal year for me was 1979. I'm going to date myself, but oh well. No.

[00:04:36]>> Um, and that year between the music, the art scene downtown, uh, the Bosot stuff I saw all over the street before I even knew that it was Bosot, I've been thinking a lot about that. So, I created a series of paintings based on that year. So, what I did was I got a playlist from 1979 and I just listened to it. I didn't pull out any art supplies. to just listen to the music.

[00:05:04]Then based on that, I started thinking about the colors and the the streets and the, you know, everything that that memories brought up for me and I created a color palette. And then from there, I just start putting colors on the canvas.

[00:05:22]Now, I can't get too specific with my intention because then I get tight and then I start like, "No, this is not good. This is terrible. This isn't this.

[00:05:34]>> So I have to keep it really loose. So it's a fine balance between a loose intention and a plan.

[00:05:41]>> Okay.

[00:05:41]>> So that's basically how I work. Then it becomes quite a call and response on a canvas. And I feel if I feel I'm drifting too far off the mark, I'll stop and I'll just put it away for a day and then jump back in. Put that playlist back on and then jump back into that feeling and that vibe. So that's basically how I work.

[00:06:03]>> You work in acrylics or oil or oil?

[00:06:07]>> Um what?

[00:06:08]>> I was trained in oil. I love oils, but I work in acrylics only because [clears throat] we adopted our daughter.

[00:06:17]She just graduated college, so 20 years ago.

[00:06:19]>> Congratulations.

[00:06:20]>> And thank you. And when she um when we brought her home, I had all the oil paints in her what was going to be her room. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, these are so toxic. I [clears throat] can't I can't do this." So, I got rid of them all and I switched to acrylics. It was a bit of a learning curve because they dry so fast, >> but mostly acrylics, inks, and mixed media.

[00:06:43]>> Okay, >> that's what I worked on.

[00:06:45]>> Um, when did you realize that art was more than a hobby for you?

[00:06:51]>> That's a really good question. Um, I I've always been I and I'm sure every artist says this, I've always been in the arts somehow.

[00:07:03]>> Um, in fact, when I was little, I I have a clear memory of this. I should have brought the crayons with me.

[00:07:09]>> I was like seven or eight and I had that big box of Crayola crayons with the sharpener in the back that, you know, was like every Yeah, exactly.

[00:07:19]>> And there were two colors in there. One was the color of cantaloupe. One was the color of honeydew. So, orange and green, but very soft. And I remember going up to my brother and saying to him, "These are the same. They're the same color."

[00:07:35]And he looked at me like I was crazy.

[00:07:37]And he went and screamed at my mom like, "I don't know what's wrong with her."

[00:07:40]She said, "These two colors are the same color." But what years later, what I realized what I was doing or noticed, they were the same value.

[00:07:50]>> Ah. So at 7 8 years old, there was something about it I recognized was similar even though the colors were different. So I always had this like that was always in me. Um I wanted to go to art school. My parents were like, "No way. You can't you're not going to make money." Now, you know, I went to high school in the 70s, so this was my dad was a cop. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. So they're like, "No, you can't be an artist. you're not going to be able to fend for yourself. But in the back of my mind, I always wanted to do it. So, I kept at it. Um, taking classes on the side, got a corporate job, had nothing to do with art, but always took classes.

[00:08:33]But it wasn't until, to answer your question, that my daughter was little and going to school where I said, "Wow, I finally have a moment." because I had quit my corporate job when we adopted her. I finally have a moment to do my own thing. And that's when I realized, oh, this is more than just me wanting to draw and sketch. And um about four years ago, I when Russia invaded Ukraine, excuse [clears throat] me, I'm part Ukrainian, so this was a a subject near and dear to my heart. I did a 100 day project paintings on uh 4x4 or 5x5 squares and I decided to sell them and donate the proceeds to global giving >> and I sold them like that. I mean they went like that and that's when I said oh I could start making money from this if I want you know so let's get a little bit more serious.

[00:09:33]>> So that was the real serious part started like four or five years ago.

[00:09:37]Wow, that's >> and that's when I started applying to galleries and that kind of thing.

[00:09:44]>> And [clears throat] you are not represented, right?

[00:09:48]>> So, anyone watching?

[00:09:51]>> Right. We we [snorts] got some a good talent right here. Um, so what themes and emotions show up in your art consistently?

[00:10:02]consistently it's it's how it feels to be in New York City at various moments in time based on my lived experience and my current experience that consistently shows up.

[00:10:19]>> Um sometimes I wish it wouldn't because I'm like but I want to do something else but [laughter] that kind of drives my practice. Um, also if I'm away on vacation somewhere, I'll come back and, you know, there'll be a beach scene that will pop out. It's like I don't plan these things. It just kind of subconsciously I've learned that it all gets in. No matter what you're doing, where you are, it all gets in and it all comes out on the canvas in some way. So basically, that's what shows up a lot.

[00:10:54]>> That is awesome. So, I kind of uh I kind of asked this one, but like from start to finish, does all your paintings start with like music or like an energy?

[00:11:11]>> Um, usually.

[00:11:14]>> Okay.

[00:11:14]>> But I'll listen to the music before I paint. Once I start painting, [clears throat] I have to It has to be quiet. And I think it's because there's so much noise. I'm surrounded with 24/7.

[00:11:27]>> Yes.

[00:11:28]>> That I just need like quiet as quiet as you can get here. Anyway, you know, there's still the occasional ambulance and whatnot, >> but um it has to be quiet. And um the energy I always start with is black ink, a big brush, and just like splash it on the splashing on the canvas.

[00:11:48]>> Oh, wow.

[00:11:50]So, what's some fears that you had to overcome as an artist?

[00:11:56]>> Uh, in a critic, feeling not good enough.

[00:11:59]>> Yes.

[00:11:59]>> Um, thinking everyone in the whole wide world has an art degree, which I don't have. I have a business degree.

[00:12:07]>> I have an art educ I have a master's in art education.

[00:12:11]Um, but I don't have an MFA. I don't have a BFA. So that was a big hurdle for me because I felt like well I don't have the degree so how can I be an artist?

[00:12:21]>> That took a long time for me to get rid of that limiting belief and say no you know it just because you have a piece of paper. I mean I have a business degree.

[00:12:31]I'm not a CEO you know. So you know I just kind of like got over that. And the more I got into my art the more I just don't even pay attention to that. I'm like, "Okay, thank you for protecting me. Sit in the back seat.

[00:12:47]>> I don't need to hear you right now." So, >> Zencio Bruno, if you want to quote >> CC, >> if you want to quote Disney, I love that >> uh naming that inner voice and just telling it to shut up.

[00:13:05]>> Yeah. I mean, it's hard. It, you know, it's always there and it and that's the other thing. It will always be there because we're wired for protection, right?

[00:13:14]>> Yeah.

[00:13:14]>> So, anytime you go into something the unknown, your your inner subconscious is like, "No, don't do that. It's not safe." Yeah.

[00:13:23]>> But it's like, "No." As and that awareness has helped me a lot. It's like, "No, this is fine. I'll be fine.

[00:13:28]It's just paint."

[00:13:30]>> Yeah.

[00:13:30]>> You know, so >> Yeah. So, what would your 16-year-old self think of your current work and your current position?

[00:13:39]My 16-year-old self would be so proud of me because my 16-year-old self got slammed by my art teacher.

[00:13:50]>> Um, when the the project was to interpret lyrics to a song in collage form.

[00:13:57]>> Beautiful, right?

[00:13:59]>> So, I took a Beatles song >> um I forget which song it was now. I should not forget. But anyway, it was a Beatles song and I did I did what my interpretation of the lyrics, >> right?

[00:14:10]>> She looked at me and she said, "This is not the assignment.

[00:14:14]>> You failed the assignment." And I'm like, >> in my head I'm like, "Okay, but this is art." Yeah.

[00:14:20]>> And this is my interpretation of the lyrics, which is was the assignment. So now looking back on that, I'm like, "Okay, you'd be I'd be super proud of myself for sure."

[00:14:35]>> Yeah. So what made it fail? Like was it it was it too abstract? Was it too >> You know, I don't think it was I don't think it was too abstract because it was actually a landscape scene. So, you know, and just to to say this, I went to Catholic school, so I couldn't really question the decision. You know what I mean?

[00:14:59]>> Yeah.

[00:14:59]>> It was kind of like, you failed the assignment. Let's move on. And I'm like, okay. Like, there was no for format for me to say, well, why? Could you tell me why? You know, >> so I don't really know what she was looking for, but >> I I really don't know.

[00:15:14]>> She might have hated >> it was I'll follow the sun. That was the song. I'll follow the sun. She might have hated the Beatles, you know.

[00:15:21]>> Maybe she did. Maybe she did >> because that was probably around the time where they said, you know, that compared themselves to Jesus, you know.

[00:15:29]>> Oh, you know what? That's a good That's a very good point.

[00:15:33]>> Yep. It was to do with you.

[00:15:36]>> Yeah.

[00:15:37]>> Yeah. Um, so do you create more for yourself or for an audience?

[00:15:43]>> I never create for an audience. It's always for myself. It's like if I create for an audience, I'm not being authentic.

[00:15:54]>> It brings me back to the represent, and this is no disc to anyone who does represent representative uh art because I think it's amazing, but for me, it brings me back to it has to be technically perfect if if I'm creating for an audience and I don't want to go there, you know? I understand that.

[00:16:13]>> So, >> yeah. So for me it's for me because then I can be authentic. I can be myself.

[00:16:20]>> Now sometimes I hate what I do and it doesn't meet the mark, you know, but it's got to be for me. And when I read Rick Rubin's The Creative Act and he says that in the book, I'm like, "Yes, that was like the greatest validation."

[00:16:37]He's like, "Just do it for you, never the audience." because you get tripped up, you know, because then it's like, well, they may not like this or oh, they don't like this color palette and who am I being true to? Not me.

[00:16:49]>> No.

[00:16:49]>> And an audience can change on a dime.

[00:16:52]You know, here today, gone tomorrow.

[00:16:54]>> Yeah.

[00:16:54]>> So, >> yeah. And that's true. Uh, and adding to your point, I love art and fear and he >> Yes.

[00:17:04]>> And and and I have the perfectional perfectionism.

[00:17:09]So, like he's like, "You're not going to be Monae. You're not going to change the world." Um, in my head I still do, but uh it's just like do it to start doing it and let everything else come in. Like don't expect a like uh a a industry shift because of your paintings, you know?

[00:17:34]>> Right.

[00:17:35]>> And I like I love that.

[00:17:38]>> Yeah. And everything you do, everything we do as artists, even if we think it's a fail, will leads us to the next step.

[00:17:47]>> Yes.

[00:17:48]>> So if you stop doing it because you don't like it, well, you're never going to get any further than that particular moment. So >> I just keep on going.

[00:17:59]>> Keep on going. So what has been your professional your biggest professional lesson so far?

[00:18:08]Oh, okay. Biggest professional lesson so far is not to underell my work.

[00:18:13]>> Yes. Tell >> because when I Yeah. Oh, that's right.

[00:18:17]You do know this story.

[00:18:19]>> Um, I submitted to a gallery and it was my first bigish gallery to get into. It was a tiny painting. It was a 6x6 small work show and I listed it for x amount of dollars. I didn't know. It was my first time doing this, right?

[00:18:37]>> Y >> and got accepted. Fine. And it sold. So, I get the the Venmo and it's for double the price. And of course, I think, oh no, they they sent the wrong Venmo to some. They didn't mean me because I didn't put this price down. So, I contact them and I'm like, I think you made an error. They're like, oh no, the person who bought the painting believed it was worth twice as much as what you listed it for. And I'm like, okay, that's it. Now I am scaling up.

[00:19:09][laughter] So that was my my biggest lesson because I'm kind of the type of person who used to be more like this.

[00:19:19]Um, oh, I can't I can't do that. I'm a people pleaser. That's too high. I don't I don't I didn't believe in myself enough. But now it's like, no, I have x amount of years experience.

[00:19:32]I have um all the time that goes into a painting, the cost of the materials, it's work. It's work and it deserves to be valued. So, that was my biggest biggest lesson.

[00:19:46]>> My >> so far. So far.

[00:19:48]>> My favorite because I've learned this lesson to my art teachers, which I hope I've talked to them. They might be on the season finale and then they're going to interview me. Um.

[00:20:00]>> Oh, that's fabulous.

[00:20:02]>> Yeah. So, uh they uh it was a charity auction, silent auction for paintings.

[00:20:13]Let's say I spent two months on this still life of uh what was it? It was uh it was uh Lily's. And I was like, I don't care. Just put a number. And my art teacher out of like stopped the class after she heard that and went lit in on me and was like, "You do not do that. You do the like you put your you know your worth and all this stuff." It was so funny. And I don't know if she remembers she did that, but I'm going to ask her. But she was like she went in on me that day. It was so funny. Yeah. She was like, "You know your worth." And I was like, "Okay, 30 bucks then." She [laughter] was like, "No." And I was like, "But it's a it's a high school in Harrisonburg, Virginia art show.

[00:21:12]Nobody's going to spend more than, you know, something." I think I made like 50 bucks off of it. But >> that's good. Yeah, >> that's good.

[00:21:21]>> It's supposed It was in a restaurant.

[00:21:24]it. Uh, one of the moms owned a restaurant and she loved it and she put it in the restaurant.

[00:21:30]>> Wow. Oh, that's so cool. That's great.

[00:21:33]>> I never went to go see it and then when I graduated I was like, "Oh, let's go see it." And then they closed. So I >> a home.

[00:21:41]>> Yeah.

[00:21:42]>> No, but it's true. I mean, we really have to know our worth.

[00:21:46]>> Yes.

[00:21:46]>> And and that's that's a big that's a lot of journaling to do, too. you know, I'm a big journaler, so I I get a lot out in that way as well.

[00:21:57]>> Yeah.

[00:21:57]>> But that's important.

[00:21:59]>> So, what is an idea for your paintings that you're obsessed with right now?

[00:22:07]>> H um I would have to say this has been going on for years. Okay.

[00:22:13]>> And I haven't done anything about it yet really.

[00:22:16]>> Water towers.

[00:22:18]>> Wow. I am surrounded by water towers out my windows and I love them. I love them so much. And I've been thinking about doing a series of water towers. I've tried, >> but they always kind of they all look the same, you know? So, I'm trying to come up with a way to just make that idea go already. Uh, I was in a water tower show in April in the in uh, Brooklyn and everybody got the same template and we all had to decorate it however we wanted, you know, and um, so I did like a cupcake. I did took corrugated um, cardboard, made it look like a cupcake with a cherry on top. Uh, and it was great to go to that show and see them all look exactly alike, >> but not, you know, it was the same shape, but everybody's take on it was so unique. It was really beautiful. So, that got that idea started up in me again. So, um, one of these days I will do something with water towers for sure.

[00:23:22]Well, and also I I'm a big uh advocate for looking at the um the current uh business models and it it can be the same because Andy Warhol painted Maryland the exact same over and over again in a I take it as you know a a inspiration of you know Hollywood culture, you know, they want to turn everyone into a blonde bimbo woman, >> right?

[00:24:01]>> You can do the same thing and you know, every water tower is a little different, but it's all the same because you have to have that source of life in the city, you know.

[00:24:14]>> Yeah. Yeah. There's actually one water tower in Brooklyn that is full-size life-size bejeweled. I mean, it's got like stained glass on it. It It is absolutely stunning to see. And it's so inspiring. Whenever I see that, I'm like, "Yes, I got to get back to that idea. [laughter] Where is it at?"

[00:24:36]>> You know, I don't even know the location because although I'm born and raised in New York City, I don't know Brooklyn that well.

[00:24:43]So, I think it's somewhere in on the border of Brooklyn and Queens. I'm not really sure though.

[00:24:48]>> I because if you didn't know, I was in homeless in New York and I would stay in hostels in Brooklyn. So, I've been from bedside to Dumbo to all of Brooklyn. I know, but >> Oh, I used to, you know, it's completely changed. Everything has changed.

[00:25:10]>> Everything has changed.

[00:25:12]>> I know. I went back to uh we came to visit New York maybe whatchamacallit how many years ago? It was about eight years ago and even through eight years ago I was like nothing's the same.

[00:25:27]>> No, it's sad. Yeah, >> it makes me sad.

[00:25:30]>> Yeah, >> but what are you going to do? The only things that stay the same are the corporates uh buildings that are still there, you know, >> that keep going up in our neighborhood now. The ABC where they used to film the Regis and Kelly show and ABC News and all that. They knocked it down >> just like a month ago and they're building like it's supposed to be as tall if not taller than the Empire State Building.

[00:25:58]>> Okay.

[00:25:59]>> And the neighborhood is freaking out.

[00:26:01]This is my neighborhood kind of. Yeah.

[00:26:03]I'm like 10 blocks from there. The neighborhood's freaking out because it's like this neighborhood doesn't have skyscrapers, you know, and it's like just >> Anyway, that's a whole another separate conversation.

[00:26:15]>> We'll have to we'll sit and [laughter] reminisce about New York. Then I'll tell you all about my journey. Um, but what is uh what does success look like to you as an artist?

[00:26:29]>> Hm.

[00:26:31]I would say as long as I'm creating every day >> Mhm.

[00:26:39]>> and being true to myself on the canvas >> Mhm.

[00:26:43]>> and learning from it.

[00:26:45]>> Yes.

[00:26:45]>> I think that's success. I I really do. I was a middle school art teacher.

[00:26:50]>> Yes. And I think that's where that comes from because had you asked me that 20 years ago, I probably would have said, "Oh, selling all my art."

[00:27:01]>> Yes.

[00:27:01]>> But when I taught my students, and I taught high at risk students, um, they didn't believe in themselves at all.

[00:27:10]>> They [clears throat] didn't think that they could ever do art. I mean, they laughed at me when I started teaching >> and they're like, "We can't do that."

[00:27:19]And I'm like, "Yeah, you can." Yeah.

[00:27:21]>> And I would, my husband worked at the time, he's retired now, for the music industry, and he would get give me all the latest rap songs, uh, CDs that were not yet released. And he's like, "You can't let it go outside your classroom, but you know, you can play this play.

[00:27:36]You could play these three tracks from this CD." I would put it on and the kids would be like, "How do you know this music?" You know, but it was a way for me to get my street cred with them.

[00:27:47]>> Yeah. I would say like if you guys want to you know listen hear the songs you got to do your work and this is what we're doing and I will help you I'm your coach you know and they started to see that they could get this stuff done and their self-esteem skyrocketed and at the end of the year we had an art show and their parents came and their grandparents came their caretakers came and you know they were amazed and people in the in other teachers it was a big school that were forced schools in the building. Other teachers would come down the hall and they would say to me, "You got them to do that?" And I'm like, "Yeah."

[00:28:26]So it and it's a matter of relationship and respect, you know? It's like they're 12, 13, 14. They need to be heard, too.

[00:28:33]But they taught me >> to believe in yourself and keep going, you know? So, I think that's that really meant a lot to me, that experience. It was an incredible experience. Um, I mean, I took knives away from kids >> and had to go to court for because of it. I mean, it was like heartbreaking, >> but it taught me so much about myself, about resilience, about self-esteem that I think that's where my notion of success comes from, that experience.

[00:29:06]>> Wow, that's crazy.

[00:29:09]Um, how do you handle crit uh critics?

[00:29:16]>> That's a tough one. It always stings, right? It always stings no matter what.

[00:29:21]I mean, even a small little backhanded comment will sting and it still stings.

[00:29:30]>> But I just say to myself, go back to the I'm creating this for me, not for an audience. Mhm.

[00:29:38]>> And that makes it feel better, you know.

[00:29:41]But um I also think and I learned this from my mentor. I took an amazing mentorship with Tai Nathan Clark.

[00:29:49]>> Okay.

[00:29:50]>> And I took it this past spring and he he's just phenomenal. He taught me taught us cuz it was a group any amount of criticism. Don't blow it off completely. Look at it. Step step outside. let it sting, you know, feel it, then step outside of it and say, "Is there any truth to this?" Cuz sometimes there is, you know, and be honest with yourself. And if there's no truth to it, >> just let it go. Cuz if you know in your heart and soul if it hit a nerve and it's like, "Oh, yeah, maybe that is a little too like whatever." But, you know, then just let it go. And that has really stuck with me. And Jerry Saltz, the art critic, also talks a lot about that, too. He's like, "Just get to work, you big babies. Don't listen to what anybody says, you know." So that's, you know, it's a work I'm a work in progress with that because even when you get rejected from shows and things, it still stings. But I allow myself to sting.

[00:30:54]Period.

[00:30:54]>> And then I'm like, "Okay, move on. Just keep going. Keep going."

[00:30:57]>> Yeah. As long as it doesn't stop you.

[00:31:00]>> Exactly. Exactly. Um, is there a piece that has changed you as an artist?

[00:31:08]>> Yes.

[00:31:10]I saw Georgia O'Keeffe's skull back in she had a show I think it was 1982 at the Met and it just blew me away. Blew me away.

[00:31:28]um her style, >> her use of color, >> um the abstract but not abstract real of it. Um and that when I saw that I was like, I want to do this. This is what I want. Um and the funny thing is two years prior to that, I had no idea who she was. And I took a drawing class at School of Visual Arts.

[00:31:54]>> Yeah. and we were doing a charcoal drawing of a of a potted plant and wonderful drawing teacher Andrea Ziken came around the room and she said to me, "Oh, your art very much resembles I thought she said George O'Keeffe.

[00:32:12][laughter] There I go. There's no internet. There's no computers. There's nothing yet, right? It's 1980. There I go running to Barnes & Noble trying to find the artist George O'Keefe. [laughter] Of course, there's no George O'Keefe.

[00:32:27]Came up empty-handed until like I don't even know how long, how much later, I'm in Barnes & Noble again and I see a coffee table book and it says Georgia O'Keeffe and I'm like, that's who she was talking about. And I open the book and I'm like, oh my gosh. And then to see her painting in person was just like uh >> and I was able to see the um her museum and her house in a biku in New Mexico and the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum and it was just wow but so she's my icon hero heroine >> nothing okay so I hope you have a different art crush but that can be an art crush too right okay what advice would you give for emerging artists is >> don't stop no matter what. Just keep going. Keep going. Even if you don't think it's coming out well, even if you're getting rejected, like Helen Frankenthaler says, getting rejected means you're putting your work out there. You know, just keep doing it.

[00:33:34]Keep going because every step informs your next step. And that's one of my biggest lessons. You can't get to that place if you haven't worked through all the mess and the explorations and experiments and things like that. So, just keep going.

[00:33:55][music] Okay. So, with this first section, we're getting into our sections now. Um, art crush, who has influenced your artistic journey the most other than Georgia O'Keeffe or George O'Keefe?

[00:34:17]>> Um, I would say I would say Bosia.

[00:34:21]>> Okay.

[00:34:22]>> And for his tenacity.

[00:34:25]>> Yeah.

[00:34:26]>> And the way he was able to just get everything that was coming at him and putting it on the canvas. I have a story about Bos, too. Back before I knew who he was, and back before anyone knew who he was, I was walking downtown in Soho >> with my then boyfriend, who's now my husband. And this guy, big looming guy with a trench coat and a crazy hair, came up to me, didn't say a word, had a rose and a postcard. And my husband is like, "Just keep walking. Just keep walking. We don't know who." Because this is New York in the 70s. So it's like you you have no idea who you're going to come across.

[00:35:06]>> It was Boscot.

[00:35:08]>> Wow.

[00:35:08]>> Before Bos was Boscat. Now had I taken that postcard, could you imagine >> what he would have asked me for? Five bucks, that postcard would have been worth millions now, you know.

[00:35:20]>> Wow.

[00:35:21]>> But anyway, so Bosot, yes. And also I'm really influenced right now by Saiwani.

[00:35:28]>> Okay. because I love the way he incorporated text into his work. It's just loose and free flowing and becomes part of the part of it. You don't think of it as text. It's just part of the painting. Um, so I really love him and I love Sarah Grio.

[00:35:49]>> Okay.

[00:35:50]>> Who I think is Argentinian and she's very abstract, very urban urban influenced. I really like her work as well. So, yeah, right now, but Bosad and Georgia O'Keeffe are my two holy grails.

[00:36:05]>> Yeah. Nobody can do any wrong. Those two.

[00:36:09]>> No. No.

[00:36:11]>> And and there's no shame in liking, you know, them because they there's a reason why people ex uh they change the industry.

[00:36:21]>> You know what I mean? A lot of people I've noticed on here are like, "Oh, I don't want to say a major artist." And it's like, "But it's okay to."

[00:36:31]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we learn from, you know, when you go to art school or even when I did my my postbalora program in school of visual arts, you learn from the masters. You you're copying the masters to learn from them, you know? I mean, I just recently went to the Met last week and saw the Raphael exhibit, which was unbelievable, and everyone was going crazy over his paintings, right?

[00:36:58]>> Yeah.

[00:36:59]>> But I was more enraptured by his sketches.

[00:37:04]>> Oh.

[00:37:04]>> Because they were just these Ki Crayon loose sketches. They were absolutely stunning >> and they were the the the templates for his paintings. But it was those sketches that were like, "Oh my gosh." Like, "Wow."

[00:37:20]>> I understand that completely because sketches I I'm not very a person to uh show my sketches because it is like the initial, you know, handstroke and all that stuff.

[00:37:40]Then if that is a like if that's perfect then what in the world are you going to do after that you know?

[00:37:49]>> Right. Right. It's like sets the bar way too high. It's like >> Yeah.

[00:37:54]>> Yeah.

[00:37:55]>> Yeah.

[00:37:56]>> Yeah.

[00:37:56]>> You know what helped me with that too with with imperfection?

[00:37:59]>> Yes.

[00:38:00]>> I 10 years ago I shattered my wrist like completely shattered and it was my dominant hand.

[00:38:07]I was so determined I started drawing with my left hand.

[00:38:12]>> Mhm.

[00:38:12]>> And the funny thing was when I did that there was no inner critic because I think subconsciously I knew well you can't draw with your left hand.

[00:38:22]>> Yeah.

[00:38:23]>> You know what I mean? So there was no expectation. There was no And I just And you know what? Some of those drawings and sketches I like better than the ones I can do now, you know, with my right hand. So, it's funny.

[00:38:37]>> Yeah, cuz like um whatchamacallit uh Sherry Sheepard, if I remember correctly, has a book called A Hall Pass. And it's giving yourself back like it's okay to mess like it's okay to be wrong. It's okay. Just like you said, wow.

[00:38:59]>> I never thought of that.

[00:39:01]>> That was I never thought of it either.

[00:39:03]And I'm like, "Holy cow, I don't have that little voice saying, "No, redo that line. This stinks." Nope. I just did what I could do. And and wow, how great would that be to transfer that to this hand, you know?

[00:39:23]>> Uh, this second segment is going to be called Two on an Easel. And I'd like to look at them now while you talk about them. So, I'm pulling them up. Um, so what is your last piece and your favorite piece and it describe them and whatever you want to tell about them.

[00:39:45]>> Okay. My last piece is um I I actually have it right here too. Okay.

[00:39:50]>> I have >> I'm gonna try to do this. I'm not good at this.

[00:39:56]>> You good?

[00:39:57]>> But ah that's kind of it. Can you see it?

[00:40:01]>> Yep. Okay. Um, it's 24 by 24. Started off completely different. Underneath this, there are really super bright colors, dark colors. Um, actually the the next piece I talk about, it came out of that.

[00:40:18]>> I was going to make a larger painting of my favorite piece.

[00:40:23]>> Okay.

[00:40:24]>> And I just it wasn't really going anywhere. And then we went on vacation and I just let it go. When I came back, I was in the middle of my mentorship and I showed the painting to in its original state to my mentor and he was like, you know, you might want to think about more negative space.

[00:40:46]>> Just think about it. And I really thought about it. And I was influenced, we went to California, so I think I was influenced by the beach.

[00:40:57]>> Okay. And I just started paint painting over it lighter colors obliterating all those bright colors and just kind of feeling into that beach energy. And that's why I named it breathing room just because it's got a lot more negative space, a lot more calm, more of a calm feeling. Um, and I really like that now. I I mean I really like it. At first, I didn't like it because I'm so bright color oriented, but >> it really got me into now a feeling into calmer colors.

[00:41:32]>> It's beautiful.

[00:41:33]>> And then your favorite piece.

[00:41:36]>> My favorite piece. This is the piece that just got this is going to be in in an exhibit starting July 2nd.

[00:41:42]>> Okay.

[00:41:43]>> This is part of my New York City at night series.

[00:41:47]>> Okay.

[00:41:47]>> So, I did these little 8 by8s. This is called Where Lights Are Stars. And um I just really this just came out how I envisioned it coming out. Not that I always envisioned things, but I just felt like this says New York City at night. For me, it does.

[00:42:06]>> Um and the the exhibit is called Harmony and Chaos >> and it's about where structure comes out of chaos.

[00:42:16]So, I think it kind of fit obviously since it got picked, but it fit the theme of the of the show. But I just really like the way this piece came together. So, and that's when I started the big one. It was out of out of here's another one out of these um smaller paintings. I said, "Well, let me try a big one." But it it didn't work.

[00:42:38]>> Well, I'm proud of you for doing bigger because I know that's what we talked about in class that that's what you wanted to do. Yeah.

[00:42:45]>> And I'm like, I need to work smaller.

[00:42:47]And everyone's like, I need to work bigger. And I'm like the weirdo that's like huge paintings, >> you know? I always worked small because I live in a Manhattan apartment. I don't have the room. And >> to scale up is hard. I didn't realize how difficult it would be.

[00:43:06]>> But I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I want to go a little bit bigger.

[00:43:10]But now my daughter moved back home from college. She just graduated and I'm like, I don't have a room anymore. So, I got to work around that.

[00:43:18]>> So, we'll see.

[00:43:20]>> So, what is next for you creatively?

[00:43:26]>> I think um I'm not really sure. I think this summer I'm going to I say this so much, but I never do it. I'm going to turn off social media for a bit and shut out the noise and just try to let my recent travels to Indonesia get out on the canvas cuz I haven't done that yet.

[00:43:52]>> Oh wow.

[00:43:53]>> I'm still journaling about my trip, but I haven't really worked out color palettes yet. I've done a little but nothing worth talking about. So, I think this summer that's that's what I'm going to do. I'm just going to focus on that and just kind of relax into my art. It it's been a crazy past couple of months with graduation, her getting her moved back home, getting rid of stuff from her apartment in Boston, and our trip was like 2 and 1/2 weeks, which we never go away for that long. So, and now it's just kind of like, all right, I need to hunker down, settle down, and summer is a good time for that. So, >> that's a good >> that's what I think I'm going to do.

[00:44:38]>> Where can people find and support your work?

[00:44:42]>> Oh, thank you. Um, on Instagram, I am Patricia Patricia_toma.

[00:44:49]>> Okay. I'll put that on right here.

[00:44:53]>> Okay. And I in my bio I have a link to my newsletter which I I promise you I don't spam people. I think the last one I sent out was a couple of months ago.

[00:45:03]So, >> but I send out my newsletter. Um I'm also on studio to gallery which is Sonia Burell's platform for artists and collectors.

[00:45:13]>> Oh.

[00:45:13]>> Um I'm on Artsy for two paintings with Warren's Contemporary and Create Projects.

[00:45:21]>> Okay. And I have a website. The link is in bio.

[00:45:26]>> Okay.

[00:45:26]>> It's a work in progress. Let's just put it like that.

[00:45:31]>> Yeah.

[00:45:31]>> It's a tough one for me.

[00:45:33]>> Yeah.

[00:45:33]>> But we'll get there. It's on Canva right now. So, >> okay.

[00:45:38]>> But it's it's functional.

[00:45:41]>> Cool. Uh any upcoming shows? Any prints you want us uh promote?

[00:45:48]No, I I do have a show coming up July 2nd through the month of July at the 440 Gallery in Brooklyn and it's called Harmony and Chaos >> and that's where this this little painting will be for sale available and it should be a great show. The open the opening is next Thursday. I'm really excited from 4 to 6. So if anyone's local to the New York City area, I would love to see you there and meet you there. So, it's 440 Gallery, which is on 6th Avenue in Brooklyn. Easy to get to, not a not a pain in the neck.

[00:46:21]>> Um, yeah. So, that's that's my big thing right now.

[00:46:25]>> Oh, awesome.

[00:46:26]>> And this podcast, I'm very excited to be on this podcast.

[00:46:29]>> Thank you.

[00:46:31]>> Thank you. Yes. So, thank you so much, Patricia, for coming on.

[00:46:36]>> Oh, thank you.

[00:46:38]>> H that was so much fun.

[00:46:39]>> This was great. It was fun. It was great to chat with you. It really was. And I wish you all the best success with this because I think this is fabulous to have a platform for artists.

[00:46:51]>> Thank you.

[00:46:51]>> To to just chitchat about art.

[00:46:54]>> Yeah. And what they're thinking, what >> comes out of them.

[00:47:01]>> Exactly. I don't I don't need to know how to I don't sorry but I don't need to learn how to uh keep myself from a writer's block because I don't have writer's block. I need to talk about other people.

[00:47:20]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is great. Thank you so much, Derek. It was so much fun.

[00:47:25]>> My pleasure. It was nice talking to you, Miss Patricia. and you'll see the episode up here soon.

[00:47:32]>> Excellent. Great.

[00:47:34]>> Thank you.

[00:47:35]>> Bye.

[00:47:35]>> Bye.

[00:47:36]>> Bye.